CA - Elliot Rodger kills 6, injures 13 in Isla Vista, Near UC Santa Barbara, #1

[CARIIS]

[modsnip] You should have put HUGE in red!

If folks only knew...........

Again , indicative of how so many in USA do not understand the illiness, how hard it is to get meaningul help etc etc

They tried to get Cho ( and he damn psycotic!) placement for years........years.......$$ waiting lists, no beds

I this country now people have rights. The institutions were emptied and closed down and basically were replaced with little. Ask a homeless vet.

Anyway, as ill as you may think someone is, you cannot cage him/her or force drugs down his/her throat.

The parents were providing a decent place to live, therapy, and social connections.

Trying to commit someone is a huge process. He had not hurt himself or nyone else, that people knew of, that is.

How would you do something with a person like him who only presents himself as highly unlikeable?

 

[Quester]

The R's PR machine seems to have begun in damage control. JMO

As someone mentioned up-thread, I too hope they are very, very careful with if and where they deflect responsibility, sling mud, rampage, etc.

All JMPO

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

From reading the manifeso , he sounded attached to the female figure in the house, his issues with his father were missing him because he was gone a lot.

They tried to keep others and their child safe, they did the beat they could two hours away on more than one occassion (sound caring and enlightened from my perpective.

And when the got to the end, they knew it ,ran to thier car and headed there

Sound pretty committed to me!

Cariis, I respectfully disagree with your conclusion that the parents did the best they could and were caring/enlightened. Perhaps they did the best they could at the moment they found out about the manifesto (at age 22 & very recently).
However, let's not forget that the stepmother was very, very afraid of ER. She wanted him out of the house at age 18 and ER's father supported that decision. So in essence, he was a sick little boy, a sick young man and the most caring thing is to let him loose on his own without any "tools"?

His behavioral issues were significant and manifested themselves at a very, very early age.

I'm not necessarily blaming the parents but I wouldn't give them a free pass either. They were aware of the build-up of ER's behavior but couldn't or wouldn't do enough to prevent the outcome.

Also, I would like to thank you Cariis for your patient posts informing the laypeeps here about DSM V and it's interpretation/significance.

 

[HMSHood]

He likely was very unpleasant person to be around. Considering how jealous he was about other people successes.
Which is, I presume, why he lost all his friends as he became older.
I don't think anything could have fixed him.

I can picture him as someone who is not likable. His unpleasant personality is a turn off and why he ended up the way he is.

People are turned off by narcissists, envious people, busy bodies, and constant complainers.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I this country now people have rights. The institutions were emptied and closed down and basically were replaced with little. Ask a homeless vet.

Anyway, as ill as you may think someone is, you cannot cage him/her or force drugs down his/her throat.

The parents were providing a decent place to live, therapy, and social connections.

Trying to commit someone is a huge process. He had not hurt himself or nyone else, that people knew of, that is.

How would you do something with a person like him who only presents himself as highly unlikeable?

Hey there, Human. Yes, I know what patient's rights are and I know what our rights are as citizens of society and a global community. I disagree that the parents provide ER with what he needed. I feel they were clinging at straws to believe and hope he was "normal" and he would grow out of it! He was seriously ill and I betcha' we will hear lots and lots of red flag stories about his childhood.
ER needed interventions that were effective at a very young age --his symptoms were more significant than the reported "unlikeable" component.

all moo

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...own-before-isla-vista-massacre-in-california/

Link above describes the sturdy and keypad of the front door to the sorority house that, luckily, prevented ER from getting into the house...

(sorry... I am on iPad... And don't know how to provide quotes...:doh

 

[human]

I heard a program a few days ago about mental illness and killings.

The person said it was all about anger. We need to teach people how to deal with anger in positive ways. I truly believe that to be correct.

Divorce seems to be an issue with lots of kids.

 

[CARIIS]

Shame on you! You should have put HUGE in red!

If folks only knew...........Ugh, and if you can, it is for 72 hours, then you have to go to court, no court must release then there are no beds

And then , let’s say a judge will do it, there is a shortage of beds. 35 Years ago a judge would admit and hold until professionals determine discharge poses less risk.

Today, even with a judge, there is no money,(it is like the correctional system -overcrowding)

Now, if you have someone who has been in for 4 days, have been put in a coma (meds) and then you have a escalated psychotic, the way the game works the individual drooling from med is asked do you feel suicidal homicidal they mumble I am Jesus Christ and no

out comes the mound of discharge paperwork. For the homeless, drop them off on the corner, give them a reading sheet with numbers (they can’t read, they have no car,) discharged and told to see a MD , how are they going to get there? How are they going to pay? How are they going to get to the pharmacy? How are they going to pay for their meds? How are they going to remember their next apt with the legalized drug dealers (MD)?

If you think your Jesus do you need meds. If you don’t know what day of the week, your name, are you going to understand that you ill, any capability for insight? The only ones that even make it to a judge are the super acute.

and when the coma wears off (from the meds) their escalating again

Again , indicative of how so many in USA do not understand the illness, how hard it is to get meaningful help etc. etc.

They tried to get Cho ( and he damn psychotic!) placement for years........years.......$$ waiting lists, no beds, no staff, no meds funding, no living arrangement help

In this country now people have rights. The institutions were emptied and closed down and basically were replaced with little. Ask a homeless vet.

Anyway, as ill as you may think someone is, you cannot cage him/her or force drugs down his/her throat.

The parents were providing a decent place to live, therapy, and social connections.

Trying to commit someone is a huge process. He had not hurt himself or anyone else, that people knew of, that is.

How would you do something with a person like him who only presents himself as highly unlikeable?

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

The drug he mentions Dr Sophy rec'd in the writings was Risperidone, it is used for hearing voices...and also for bi-polar, that is why I take it. I have thoughts that I'm not good enough, not doing enough, I feel inferior...it has taken all those thoughts away.



http://www.patient.co.uk/medicine/risperidone

I am so glad you have found a means to alleviate your pain...

:grouphug:

 

[Quester]

I'd like to know how much info the Rs gave The Capri dorm, re: "very disturbed" ER's longterm mental illness/personality disorder, prior to signing the lease for the apt/dorm room. JMO

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

From my memory, Moms boyfriend Jack bought her a new car and she gave ER her old one, which I presumed was the BMW. Anyone else recall that?

I recall that at the time ER got his driver's license...Jack bought mom a car... And that she gave her car to ER...

but... Later... Mom bought ER the BMW...

Interesting that ER never mentions the type of car mom gave him initially... the first car probably did not represent a status symbol to him, as the BMW did...

JMO

 

[Quester]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...own-before-isla-vista-massacre-in-california/

Link above describes the sturdy and keypad of the front door to the sorority house that, luckily, prevented ER from getting into the house...

(sorry... I am on iPad... And don't know how to provide quotes...:doh

Here you go:

The double front door is heavy wood, with glass etchings of the sorority’s shield and an electronic keypad to get in. Several women heard Rodger’s “aggressive knocking,” Santa Barbara County Sheriff Bill Brown said. “Fortunately, no one opened.”
​

 

[Paulette]

Yup. I believe it will reveal more about the two that spawned this freak.

I've seen it way too many times...Someone with money but no time to raise their kid. They throw money and things at him so daddy and mommy can have quality time, isolating the kid.

Kid grows up with zero social skills or interaction, no love. Reminds me of a Harlow primate experiment in zoology class.

Do not blame his parents. Imagine having a normal life up to the point that ER became a problem - age 8. Now suddenly you're thrown into another world. You send him to therapy, coddle him, discipline him & hope he'll either grow out of it or benefit from therapy. What more is one to do?

His mother did everything in her power to socialize him - arranging play dates, vacations, parties - but nothing worked. He refused to be socialized because of his jealousy in every situation.

He couldn't even go to city college & sit in class because he became jealous & infuriated with his classmates. Every single class he took he dropped.

He details every social situation with his family in his manifesto - the parents tried, but he was unreachable - an extreme case of being stuck in jealousy & hatred - frozen with self-hatred.

 

[CARIIS]

... and we shall...we have already, we heard mom and dad two hours away reach out for help

we have already heard that they called several people that night, that they got they got in their car 94 seconds (!) after becoming aware....

We will hear red flags, we will hear mom and dad trying and trying to find and get their adult child to try supportive living arrangemnts, to take his medications

Red flags many ............no black and white checkered flags around, and getting worse and worse , as the number of mass murders become a regular (pretty much weekly, busy weeks , every 72 hours really)

and...... out come the guns

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

The manifesto was written recently, I presume, so all reflections, observations, storytelling, memories, etc. were through the filter of this "very disturbed" 22 yo.

Would be interesting to hear, from some of those named, their version of those described incidences.

I, too, would be very curious to hear/read about the perspectives from those named in the manifesto...

:waitasec:

 

[kaos]

I'd like to know how much info the Rs gave The Capri dorm, re: "very disturbed" ER's longterm mental illness/personality disorder, prior to signing the lease for the apt/dorm room. JMO

I was thinking about the college's responsibility in all of this and think at the very least they would have known he was skipping classes and should have had some sort of discussion with his parents.

 

[Quester]

I was thinking about the college's responsibility in all of this and think at the very least they would have known he was skipping classes and should have had some sort of discussion with his parents.

A college has no responsibility to inform parents that their adult son is skipping/dropping classes.

In fact, the college is probably precluded from doing do. JMO

 

[BigCat]

He makes no mention of brunettes and redheads. He is likely not attracted to them. It is always blonde and obsesses about them. His aggression should raise a red flag right there.

Perhaps related to a traumatic experience with a blonde (or blondes) during his formative years. He mentioned one female by name several times as a source of humiliation. I googled her name and a pictures of a beautiful blonde in a bikini came up. Don't know if she's a model now or just an exhibitionist.

JMO

 

[CARIIS]

No worries! I was not paying any attn when i before e except after d but if near r or the sun is rising!

WHere to stick a comma boring!!

How to type boring Hard to believe now!) Just bad at it hate capitals commas peroids in terms of where they are on the keyboard, keys I was not paying attn to !

so you missing a quote compared to my spelling, punc, typing, grammer, your the money!
I can write, I just do it my way in my secret way.

Back then we had no computers, if noone could read your handwriting then noone knew spelling issues!

 

[PoeticJustice]

I feel the R's have a good opportunity to raise awareness about the growing mental health problem in this country. I'll reserve my judgement for later but I very much hope they do not take the Hollywood Liberal stance and blame guns. My gut tells me though that considering they did at least attempt to get help for him, that they won't. I'm sorry but anyone who says this wasn't preventable is wrong. I believe it's neither nature or nurture but rather a mixture of both that can set someone on the path to destruction or a normal adult life. In this case I think ER was born with a predisposition for a fragile mental state and possible personality disorder and his life of affluence only exacerbated what he would grow to become.

My question is, when will we learn that no matter how much you want your children to have what you didn't, that they still need to learn the value of hard honest work and to value people as people and not tools? I'm in no way criticizing them, it really saddens me to hear how they jumped in the car and called the police knowing something deadly was about to happen...what a horrifying feeling. I just think that there seems to be a pattern amongst these young men committing these mass murders.

Young men with well-to-do families, growing up in upper middle class neighborhoods or extremely wealthy neighborhoods with above average intelligence are shooting people up because of their "oppression" and "pain" why?? It just baffles me. Even most gang members or thugs in the hood aren't murdering people in schools because of their childhood and we all know there are people out there who've had it FAR worse.


I don't know, it just amazes me.