CA - Elliot Rodger kills 6, injures 13 in Isla Vista, Near UC Santa Barbara, #1

[prima.facie]

IMO
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


Public needs education
Teachers need education (getting much better here) to help idnetify early
Parents need education
LE needs education
THe justice system needs education
The media needs education ([modsnip] on Fox going to sexual orientation UGH god)

Fiscal Year 2014 Grant Announcements - SAMHSA Beta

beta.samhsa.gov/grants/grant-announcements
May 15, 2014 - The FY 2014 enacted budget does not contain sufficient funding for ... of the Comprehensive Community Mental Health Services for Children ...


Correcting Misconceptions in Mental Health Policy ...

https://faculty.unlv.edu/.../mentalhealth...University of Nevada, Las Vegas ....They also were reluctant to pay for long-term, often custodial, hospital stays that were ... Some private insurers refused to cover mental illness treatment; others .

while i agree with you...

who does the educating and how do you force people to be educated?
we were educated up our arse with "dont do drugs" but we have an entire population still strung out on drugs.

we cant force parents to raise kids a certain way. people are very very defensive when it comes to telling them that they need to do something with their kid whether it be stop feeding them junk food that is making them fat or get them mental health because "i feel your kid needs it".

my question is: how do you FORCE parents (and society) to see the signs and act on them?
there is so much that goes on behind closed doors that kids will inevitably slip through the cracks. there are just so many factors in this topic.

i also feel its a slippery slope because what if a kid just as regular ol' anxiety that does not lead to killing sprees or violence and someone feels that is a sign.....and then that kid is forced into a mental health situation that he really didnt need.

*sigh* I dont know what the answer is. it seems to be a pretty fine line on gestapo tactics and freedom under the constitution....and a whole lot of other stuff in between.



on the other note....
i also dont think there was an [modsnip] on fox going on about sex orientation. i saw plenty of that here and on liberal sites. it is not out of the realm of logic to address the fact that maybe he was confused on his sexuality which contributed to some of the issues. it may or not be true, but i believe it is part of the overall analysis of this kid's mind and what was going on with him. i believe it is just as valid as part of the huge puzzle as disusing whether or not divorce plays a factor in a child's life - negative or positive.

 

[Archangel7]

The roomies were not shot----they were stabbed. ER also used his car as a weapon.

Point being, in the wrong hands, many items become lethal.




Anyone want to chime in on what a parent can do when they see their child exhibiting odd behavior at say ages 5, 8, 13?

What is the ideal parental reaction?

I ask because I don't think we as a society can afford to throw our hands up and say there is nothing we can do.

BBM

Yes allow me....

Love and spend quality time with your kids. I almost never see a kid with a hunting and fishing license in Police trouble.

Quit trying to be a career person. Kids are your career, if you can't or won't do that, they become my career.

Raise your kids with self worth, morals and right from wrong regardless of what the Liberal arts majors tell you or your trophy wife/husband says.

Discipline your kids, forget Spock/Freud.

 

[CARIIS]

differing opinions on what exactly was wrong with ER.
Pure medical have x rays, blood,etc etc. . An most of the time you will get differing treatment plans - medical My stomach hurts most of the time remains my stomach hurts! And a divorce in the family usually does not change the stomach hurting!

Mental is based on much more subjective ( especially with kids) do they feel safe talking about it ? They are kids are the able to describe what is going on for them?

Mom can come in and give a report on the child’s behavior, dad would come in totally different, the teacher is seeing different behavior in different setting, the clinicians are observing different behaviors , LE is seeing different behaviors , past clinicians have seen different behaviors .
[FONT=&quot]
Environment always changing. Divorce, growing up, money stress in the hsouse,domestic violence, abuse of some kind, moms ability to pay for the meds, to monitor if the child is taking them as ordered, substance abuse, criminal history, educational background of mom dad child intelligence/insight of all parties!!

mental is fluid[/FONT]

 

[Flutterby80]

Sorry if this has been posted, but have you seen this string of self-made videos he posted?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4CressilIo&feature=autoshare

Maybe this guy was mentally ill, I don't know. But he was also clearly a self-absorbed a-hole and it's no wonder he didn't have friends or a girlfriend. All the BMWs in the world can't make up for a terrible personality. Who wants to hang out with someone who believes he is superior to everyone else?

 

[mck16]

His total lack of social skills saved a lot of young women's lives that night, I believe. He couldn't even knock on a sorority door without doing it aggressively, and making them all think it was someone they wouldn't want to open the door to.

The roommates he killed most viciously and personally, with a knife, he appeared to have no grudge against in his writings -he said he simply needed to have them dead to have the apartment to himself, to entice people in?? He didn't even mention the candle incident.

I feel like I am feeling my way through thick fog, trying to figure anything out about what made ER tick - what his thought processes were, or even understand his physical demeanour; his expressions. And his odd, archaic language. He spoke more like my English Grandfather than someone raised in the US.

If I hadn't known what he'd done when I viewed the video, I'm afraid I would have thought it was just some immature teen making a poor attempt at acting. I'd have thought it was a joke.

In total contrast.....I have just heard poor Christopher's dad on the radio again. Unbearable. I'd do anything if I could provide that grieving soul with a little bit of comfort at this moment.

My thought exactly. A very bad audition. jmo

 

[prima.facie]

BBM

Yes allow me....

Love and spend quality time with your kids. I almost never see a kid with a hunting and fishing license in Police trouble.

Quit trying to be a career person. Kids are your career, if you can't or won't do that, they become my career.

Raise your kids with self worth, morals and right from wrong regardless of what the Liberal arts majors tell you or your trophy wife/husband says.

Discipline your kids, forget Spock/Freud.

that is all fine and good but some kids actually have some wiring in their brain that will not be affected by any of that.

mental health goes way beyond love, attention and morals.

and on the other side, plenty of kids can not have the things you mentioned and go on to lead healthy productive lives.

it is just not that simplistic.

 

[prima.facie]

Sorry if this has been posted, but have you seen this string of self-made videos he posted?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4CressilIo&feature=autoshare

Maybe this guy was mentally ill, I don't know. But he was also clearly a self-absorbed a-hole and it's no wonder he didn't have friends or a girlfriend. All the BMWs in the world can't make up for a terrible personality. Who wants to hang out with someone who believes he is superior to everyone else?

id read the thread and all the info provided.

he was obviously mentally ill. he was not just some Ahole.

 

[CARIIS]

There has to be a starting point. Money. With money comes acess to services, which educate in themselves. WIth parents 98% of it is educating parents on what is going on. Which is exaclty what ER parents did, for years, they understand , becasue they had access to education, they knew they had better call someone.From education, they understoold their child was ill........money

Teachers that understand that a child is never bad, but is behaving badly -- world of diff!

Teachers that understand the kind of data we are looking for .

Money.... the answer for many mentally ill is jail or prison money

Longer hospital stays again , acess to serivices, educate family system , support client. Were back to money.

A starting point, obviously data indicates that what we are doing as a society seems not to working.

fox going on about sex orientation... she was a talking head.....just like we have learned with MAL 370....................



ss.

while i agree with you...

who does the educating and how do you force people to be educated?
we were educated up our arse with "dont do drugs" but we have an entire population still strung out on drugs.

we cant force parents to raise kids a certain way. people are very very defensive when it comes to telling them that they need to do something with their kid whether it be stop feeding them junk food that is making them fat or get them mental health because "i feel your kid needs it".

my question is: how do you FORCE parents (and society) to see the signs and act on them?
there is so much that goes on behind closed doors that kids will inevitably slip through the cracks. there are just so many factors in this topic.

i also feel its a slippery slope because what if a kid just as regular ol' anxiety that does not lead to killing sprees or violence and someone feels that is a sign.....and then that kid is forced into a mental health situation that he really didnt need.

*sigh* I dont know what the answer is. it seems to be a pretty fine line on gestapo tactics and freedom under the constitution....and a whole lot of other stuff in between.



on the other note....
i also dont think there was an idiot on fox going on about sex orientation. i saw plenty of that here and on liberal sites. it is not out of the realm of logic to address the fact that maybe he was confused on his sexuality which contributed to some of the issues. it may or not be true, but i believe it is part of the overall analysis of this kid's mind and what was going on with him. i believe it is just as valid as part of the huge puzzle as disusing whether or not divorce plays a factor in a child's life - negative or positive.

 

[jjenny]

Do not blame his parents. Imagine having a normal life up to the point that ER became a problem - age 8. Now suddenly you're thrown into another world. You send him to therapy, coddle him, discipline him & hope he'll either grow out of it or benefit from therapy. What more is one to do?

His mother did everything in her power to socialize him - arranging play dates, vacations, parties - but nothing worked. He refused to be socialized because of his jealousy in every situation.

He couldn't even go to city college & sit in class because he became jealous & infuriated with his classmates. Every single class he took he dropped.

He details every social situation with his family in his manifesto - the parents tried, but he was unreachable - an extreme case of being stuck in jealousy & hatred - frozen with self-hatred.

He didn't fit in and was jealous of people who did. He had extreme jealousy toward men who could get females. When he himself couldn't. Although it doesn't appear he would actually approach females to ask them out. Instead he expected females to chaise after him. He also expected to win a multi million $ jackpot. I guess he viewed himself as special and entitled to things like lottery jackpots.
I am guessing just like Adam Lanza, there was something wrong with him from birth and it couldn't be fixed.

 

[jjenny]

BBM

Yes allow me....

Love and spend quality time with your kids. I almost never see a kid with a hunting and fishing license in Police trouble.

Quit trying to be a career person. Kids are your career, if you can't or won't do that, they become my career.

Raise your kids with self worth, morals and right from wrong regardless of what the Liberal arts majors tell you or your trophy wife/husband says.

Discipline your kids, forget Spock/Freud.

I don't believe Adam Lanza had a hunting license, but his mother did take him to target practice. For some reason that didn't work. Teaching a disturbed person how to use a gun does not sound like a good idea to me.

 

[jjenny]

id read the thread and all the info provided.

he was obviously mentally ill. he was not just some Ahole.

One can be both.

 

[cece5300]

that is all fine and good but some kids actually have some wiring in their brain that will not be affected by any of that.

mental health goes way beyond love, attention and morals.

and on the other side, plenty of kids can not have the things you mentioned and go on to lead healthy productive lives.

it is just not that simplistic.

Thank you! Exactly. A child could have all the love and nurturing and parents, video games, movies will still be to blame. People will always find someone or something to blame when something they don't understand happens. You want to, you need to, because it's incomprehensible that this could happen.

As far as the parents letting him have his hair bleached when he was younger, is it the best parenting decision? No. Is it a hill to die on? No. Do kids who get their hair bleached grow up to be serial killers? No. The singer Gwen Stefani has let her boys bleach their hair, paint their nails, etc, and you never see anything scandalous going on there.

I'd like to find a rhyme or reason for this tragedy, but the kid was evil and messed up in the head. Someone who felt as he felt at such a young age was already beyond the point of rehabilitation.

Meanwhile, some children grow up in less than ideal environments and grow up to be compassionate good citizens. No rhyme or reason.

I'm not looking for skeletons in closets, I'm not watching a drama unfold on a TV show. The parents couldn't save him or the poor victims, but by God all evidence points to them trying, multiple times, for years.

So many people overlook the families of the criminals. The innocent victims deserve to be enveloped in love and support and I'd rather talk about them any day and keep their memories alive than focus on ER, but I also feel for the families of the criminal (in some cases). They get treated horribly. Imagine the shame, the embarrassment, the guilt. They too lost a child, and not only that, but they found out their child was a mass murderer who was also planning to kill them

 

[skibaboo]

Mental illness needs to be viewed as the same as physical illness. How you go about that idk, awareness has made big leaps in recent years but there is still so much ignorance and so much unknown, even to the sufferer them self.

Ladies know to check their breats for signs of lumps
Guys know to check their goolies for signs of lumps
Guy's know the signs to look for prostate cancer
We know what symptoms can point to diabetes
Parents and teachers know what may be meningitis

Parents and teachers are vigilant to what could be a physical health problem, measles, mumps, chickenpox, leukemia, epilepsy.

Surely it's possible to have the same for signs of mental illness and distress. But that is just one step.

The brain is much more complicated and so much is still unknown but society can change, changing its perception of mental illness is a start. Even the smallest thing can make a difference.

 

[Quester]

VIDEO: Alleged Gunman Elliot Rodger's Chilling Manifesto

[Includes interview with a "friend"]

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/alleged-gunman-elliot-rodgers-chilling-manifesto-23865393

 

[zwiebel]

My memory is going, but years ago I read (or maybe saw on TV) about a group of women who had married men with varying degrees of Asperger's or even severe autism without knowing it.

Not wanting to end their marriages, they'd got together and come up with coping strategies; for example, one woman got around her husband's total inability to interpret or respond to facial cues, by using cue words to signal to him what someone really meant, before he made bad social mistakes.

I am not being flippant, but maybe a nationwide, non-profit support group for parents who fear their child might harm or kill someone one day, might be a good idea? Unless it is very clear, most parents would be reluctant to call police if their child was making posts that raised flags, and there don't seem to be an awful lot of places for them to go.....average parent forums would be horrified, and condition-specific sites often don't even have forums, let alone any immediate response.

ETA: I think my child might kill someone.com. I bet that name is still available. And always will be.

 

[prima.facie]

There has to be a starting point. Money. With money comes acess to services, which educate in themselves. WIth parents 98% of it is educating parents on what is going on. Which is exaclty what ER parents did, for years, they understand , becasue they had access to education, they knew they had better call someone.From education, they understoold their child was ill........money

Teachers that understand that a child is never bad, but is behaving badly -- world of diff!

Teachers that understand the kind of data we are looking for .

Money.... the answer for many mentally ill is jail or prison money

Longer hospital stays again , acess to serivices, educate family system , support client. Were back to money.

A starting point, obviously data indicates that what we are doing as a society seems not to working.

fox going on about sex orientation... she was a talking head.....just like we have learned with MAL 370....................



ss.

ok. but that still doesnt address the issue on FORCING the general population to be educated on mental health. i feel that is impossible, although desirable.

does the US govt force everyone to take years of mental health education? people dont want regular health care forced on them - there is no way people are going to be OK with mental health education being forced on them.

many say breastfeeding is best for babies. many dont. but the government cant force moms to breastfeed or not. so how do you force parents to be educated on the very very confusing world of mental health? should we also force parents to stop feeding their kids junk food? michele obama has tried - and that isnt going over so well.

have you tried to tell a parent: hey, i think your child is mentally ill? i havent. but i have tried telling them to maybe stop feeding them so much sugar to help their ADHD and i will NEVER do that again. i got my beat (not literally). generally speaking, it seems parents dont want to be forced or told how to parent their children. mental health brings a whole 'nother issue. im sure plenty of parents do not want to admit that maybe their child needs some professional help. and we cant force them to accept it. what if a child is born this way - then what? does the govt take the child away and stick it in a mental hospital? we know how well the govt runs things. :/

i actually am very very concerned about this topic due to my reasons i mentioned way above: i know kids who i feel exhibit signs that could lead to tragic things. but there is nothing i can do about it. and it could all be just my over analyzing of things my high standards of who i allow around my child. maybe the kids are fine?

i really do not want the govt in anymore of our lives than it is. i dont trust they are capable of handling anything. mental health in their hands is a scary thought to me. but that still leaves me (us) with...ok, now what?

i appreciate your posts. they aid in trying to figure this out. i know it sounds like im arguing with you. i am not. i am just trying to figure out what can be done like everyone else because it has been a HUGE concern of mine for a few years now.

 

[prima.facie]

One can be both.

true. i was just meaning it is beyond him just being some aholeprick.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I think that too. Narcissistic and Borderline with possibility of Schizotypal.

I dropped my math class immediately after learning that Brittany had a boyfriend. I couldn’t look at her beauty anymore, knowing that some punk was able to enjoy having sex with her every day. I can only imagine how heavenly that guy’s life must be. He was in heaven and I was in hell. Shortly after dropping my math class, I decided to drop all of my other classes in a rage. There was no point to it anymore. No matter how hard I tried, girls were not attracted to me. What was the point of going through college, getting a degree, and finding some mundane professional job afterwards if I could never experience the pleasure of girls along the way? I didn’t want to torture myself with going to college and looking at all of those beautiful girls I could never have. Nothing beneficial came out of it. There was no hope for me to ever have a desirable college life.

He clearly overreacts and drops out of class over something so trivial. I see sadism in him.

Bolded and underlined I am glad someone finally said it. I truly believe he was a sadist. I think the reason he didn't turn to becoming a serial rapist/killer is because what would that even get him?? He would still be unknown.

This is one of the reasons I don't like how much attention these rampage killings/mass killings get in the media. Didn't they even put the Boston bomber on the cover of Rolling Stones Magazine? They always get covers on People Magazine. Front page newspaper/online articles from all around the globe. I know a constant complaint that I have is why so much attention on the killer/s and not the victims?

The manifesto was another way for him to inflict pain on people. I want to say again that all those people (with the exception of his parents on certain issues) named have nothing to feel guilty about (just in case they stumble across this website). They did nothing wrong and there was nothing they could have done different.

 

[zwiebel]

VIDEO: Alleged Gunman Elliot Rodger's Chilling Manifesto

[Includes interview with a "friend"]

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/alleged-gunman-elliot-rodgers-chilling-manifesto-23865393

Well that article is implying the Retribution video is the one family saw a month ago or something, and alerted LE. But I don't think that's the case?

 

[Quester]

Well that article is implying the Retribution video is the one family saw a month ago or something, and alerted LE. But I don't think that's the case?

I thought the link I posted was to just a video not an article.?.