CA - Elliot Rodger kills 6, injures 13 in Isla Vista, Near UC Santa Barbara, #1

[IHAVENOCLUE]

FYI...

IMO...Here is a pretty detailed Timeline of events leading up to May23rd's rampage

(However it still is not clear who called for ER's well check visit by LE...)

http://mashable.com/2014/05/25/elliot-rodger-timeline-santa-barbara/

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Hmmm, could they have made the error of naming the 'Independent Living Institute' in Santa Barbara, rather than the very similar 'Independent Living Resource Center" , also in Santa Barbara (and Ventura and San Luis Obispo) that offers housing assistance arranged through a Community Living Advocate ?

http://www.ilrc-trico.org/services/housingpersonalassist.html

Who is eligible and how do we provide services?

http://www.ilrc-trico.org/services.html

Who are we?

"The Independent Living Resource Center is a public-benefit, nonprofit organization that promotes the Independent Living (IL) philosophy and its tenets of full access, equal opportunity, and maximum success and self-sufficiency for all people with disabilities."

Homepage:
http://www.ilrc-trico.org/home.html

They also offer benefits assistance, which it seems ER would be entitled to with his Aspergers dx even if he was accepting financial assistance from friends or family.

If you are an adult applying for Social Security disability based on Asperger’s Syndrome (or are representing an adult applying for benefits), your claim will be judged based on the guidelines laid out in the SSA’s Blue Book, under Section 12.10, which deals with autistic disorder and other pervasive developmental disorders.

To qualify for disability benefits under the Blue Book listing:

you must have medical documentation showing that you have an autistic spectrum disorder which affects your social interaction, your communication, and your ability to focus on activities outside of your immediate interests.
You must further be able to show that this has a marked impact on your daily activities, your ability to function in social situations, or your ability to focus on a task at hand.

If you suffer from depression, other mental illnesses, or any other disability, you will want to include that information in your claim as well, even if it is not related to your Asperger’s Syndrome. If your condition alone does not meet the SSA’s requirements for disability, they will consider the effects of all of your disabling conditions to determine whether you can reasonably be expected to find and maintain gainful employment.

http://www.disability-benefits-help.org/disabling-conditions/aspergers-syndrome

Will accepting financial assistance from friends or family affect my eligibility for Social Security Disability?

No. When applying for Social Security Disability, accepting financial help from friends, family or any other person will have no negative impact on the status of your claim or your eligibility for benefits. Receiving gifts such as money, food, clothes, or even a place to live is completely permissible.

The only thing that will interfere with your claim is if you are working.

http://www.disability-benefits-help...affect-eligibility-social-security-disability

Maybe this is how he was able to pay for the guns and ammo without charging it to Mum, Dad or Gran???

Independent Living Resource Center vs. Independent Living Institute...

Hmmmm....

Good catch.....:thumb:

That may be where the confusion started...

:waitasec:

 

[lawstudent]

Maybe the sheriff's office was not the entity that performed the welfare check? Where I live, we don't see many sheriffs, nor do they seem to play a big role. When I lived in CA, I noticed that most police cars were labeled as sheriffs except for LAPD. In CA, press conferences seem to always be given by a sheriff. Where I live, they are given by the police chief. State-level law enforcement is bigger on the east coast, but they could have been the ones doing the check.

Unfortunately, I don't see any practical way to prevent such events. It's just way too complex and expensive. I believe the main issue is media coverage of these crimes and the fact that society has become much less rigidly organized and less provincial. There are endless choices for young people to make, a lot more insecurities to develop, and a lot more comparisons to be made. For many people, that has been a largely positive development. For many people, it's just too much, and for a very small amount, it ends in great tragedy.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Considering parents have been divorced for a long time, I don't think this young man has been living with his father in a long time.
From the manifesto, ER took the divorce very hard.

Well, what I mean is this Jenny---I don't mean it literally that ER was living with the father. Rather the father (a parent) allowed ER to leave his parental guardianship which he shared jointly and enter into society alone without a strong support system, institution or caretaker. He was still young (18) and very, very unstable.

ER's father being divorced does not remove him of his role as a responsible parent. Responsible parents would not allow a probability for a young mentally ill man to spiral down due to the added stressors of living alone in society. They knew he was too mentally frail to make it living with a parent so the solution is to let him out on his own? Typically, life doesn't get easier or less challenging as people enter the real world. His parents (regardless if they were divorced) knew this. No amounts of nice cars were going to be a big enough "band-aid" to help this young man adjust. Of course not!

They knew this and that is why I said that I hope ER's father uses caution when putting the blame in certain areas. Granted, I do believe that guns are too easily obtained (lack of proper background checks, etc) but I also feel parents need to be more realistic about their children if they have behavioral/mental health issues or learning disabilities.

all moo

 

[gngr~snap]

Independent Living Resource Center vs. Independent Living Institute...

Hmmmm....

Good catch.....:thumb:

That may be where the confusion started...

:waitasec:

It would explain why he had a social worker assigned to his case.


All posts are my opinion only. Sent via Tapatalk

 

[lawstudent]

Well, what I mean is this Jenny---I don't mean it literally that ER was living with the father. Rather the father (a parent) allowed ER to leave his parental guardianship which he shared jointly and enter into society alone without a strong support system, institution or caretaker. He was still young (18) and very, very unstable.

ER's father being divorced does not remove him of his role as a responsible parent. Responsible parents would not allow a probability for a young mentally ill man to spiral down due to the added stressors of living alone in society. They knew he was too mentally frail to make it living with a parent so the solution is to let him out on his own? Typically, life doesn't get easier or less challenging as people enter the real world. His parents (regardless if they were divorced) knew this. No amounts of nice cars were going to be a big enough "band-aid" to help this young man adjust. Of course not!

They knew this and that is why I said that I hope ER's father uses caution when putting the blame in certain areas. Granted, I do believe that guns are too easily obtained (lack of proper background checks, etc) but I also feel parents need to be more realistic about their children if they have behavioral/mental health issues or learning disabilities.

all moo

But once he was 18 there was no guardianship. It sounds like they didn't want him to move out, but he insisted. Now, I'm not saying that they should have gone along with it because clearly in hindsight that ended horribly. But if they had said no, we don't know what would have happened. He could have stormed out and tried to make it on his own, and then reacted violently under the pressure of trying to find money and a place to live and any treatment he might have been receptive to. The parents may have felt that this way they could monitor him to some extent by trying to work with him and provide him with things, while urging him to get treatment and knowing where he was. If it turns out they bought him guns themselves, I would say that was a very poor decision, but other than that, particularly if he hadn't been violent in the past, I can see why they thought letting him go to school might be the best option. It is a bad situation to be in.

 

[Suthrnqt]

Well, what I mean is this Jenny---I don't mean it literally that ER was living with the father. Rather the father (a parent) allowed ER to leave his parental guardianship which he shared jointly and enter into society alone without a strong support system, institution or caretaker. He was still young (18) and very, very unstable.

ER's father being divorced does not remove him of his role as a responsible parent. Responsible parents would not allow a probability for a young mentally ill man to spiral down due to the added stressors of living alone in society. They knew he was too mentally frail to make it living with a parent so the solution is to let him out on his own? Typically, life doesn't get easier or less challenging as people enter the real world. His parents (regardless if they were divorced) knew this. No amounts of nice cars were going to be a big enough "band-aid" to help this young man adjust. Of course not!

They knew this and that is why I said that I hope ER's father uses caution when putting the blame in certain areas. Granted, I do believe that guns are too easily obtained (lack of proper background checks, etc) but I also feel parents need to be more realistic about their children if they have behavioral/mental health issues or learning disabilities.

all moo

Just jumping off your post.....
Seems like to me, that the guns didn't kill these co-eds, ER did. In fact, at the apt crime scene, I believe ER utilized a knife to kill those 3 young men. So, at the end of the day, the parents should have gotten ER the much needed mental health care he needed. If he needed long term in-patient care, the parents could have well afforded the treatment, IMO. But to turn a blind eye to their son's obvious mental health problems, to me, is beyond irresponsible.
And, before anyone jumps me, I have been diagnosed (and properly medicated) with a myriad of mental health issues. All the above is jmo and ime.

 

[zwiebel]

I think.....

April, ER posted some videos (NOT the final, Retribution one) that alarmed his mom. She called a mental healthline in Santa Barbara, which called police and asked for a welfare check. I think police didn't view those videos before calling on ER; because either they thought it was more important to respond immediately, or they were not told/given a link to them.

From the manifesto of ER, it seems police were under the impression he was a danger more to himself, than other people. They asked him about suicidal thoughts, he says. They seemed to get the same impression of him several other people did on initial meetings with him - he was simply very shy and reserved. ER quickly removed his videos.

Last Friday, the day he set for the killings, ER posted his Retribution video and mailed a bunch of people, including his parents.

9.17pm Mom called police about ER's plans.

9.27pm Police in IV respond to the first calls of shootings they say.

So it seems police only had 10 minutes between being alerted to the existance of the video, and the beginning of the shootings. Not really time to view the video, which is why I think they are saying they hadn't seen any videos before the killings.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

But once he was 18 there was no guardianship. It sounds like they didn't want him to move out, but he insisted. Now, I'm not saying that they should have gone along with it because clearly in hindsight that ended horribly. But if they had said no, we don't know what would have happened. He could have stormed out and tried to make it on his own, and then reacted violently under the pressure of trying to find money and a place to live and any treatment he might have been receptive to. The parents may have felt that this way they could monitor him to some extent by trying to work with him and provide him with things, while urging him to get treatment and knowing where he was. If it turns out they bought him guns themselves, I would say that was a very poor decision, but other than that, particularly if he hadn't been violent in the past, I can see why they thought letting him go to school might be the best option. It is a bad situation to be in.

Of course, once he turned 18.....it was too late. My point being, perhaps ER's parents spent most of their focus on getting ER to fit in (as well as being in denial) instead of getting comprehensive medical outlines of the care and treatment. An approach more of acceptance than one that puts additional strain on ER 'cause he was **never** going to fit in with his peers and accomplish any goals that another mentally healthy man his age would have no problems achieving. And I mean **never**.
By many accounts (including grandmother, aunts, etc) he was a mentally sick boy.

I'm just trying to find a semblance of a solution to their bad situation they were in. And to try and prevent further tragedy.....and yes, he had shown signs of violence in the past----the stepmother had been repeatedly alarmed.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

"“Elliot has always been troubled and couldn’t express himself,” the source tells us.

“His parents did everything they could to help him. It seemed that Elliot suffered from extreme paranoia and heard voices, but it was impossible to properly diagnose because he just wouldn’t talk. Having been prescribed psychiatric medication, Elliot refused to take it."

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2...used-psychiatric-medicines-parents-in-hiding/

If ER did, indeed, hear voices, as the above article reports... This puts him in a whole 'nother level of mental illness than what has been discussed on this thread...

JMO

 

[jjenny]

If ER did, indeed, hear voices, as the above article reports... This puts him in a whole 'nother level of mental illness than what has been discussed on this thread...

JMO

The "article" from radar online attributed to anonymous source? I hardly find that credible.

 

[ButForFortune]

On one of the days in July, when I was roaming around Girsh Park, a group of popular college kids arrived to play kickball in the fields. They all looked like typical fraternity jocks, tall and muscular. The kind of guys I’ve hated and envied all my life. With them came a flock of beautiful blonde girls, and they looked like they were having so much fun playing together. One of the girls did a handstand in the grass, and her sexy bare stomach showed as her shirt hung down. All of the girls were scantily clad. Rage boiled inside me as I watched those people who thought they were better than me enjoying their pleasurable little lives together. The rage was so intense that I couldn’t take it. I was insulted too much. I couldn’t leave them without getting some form of revenge, so I drove to the nearby K-mart, bought a super-soaker, filled it up with orange juice that I bought at the same store, and drove back to the park. They were still there, having the time of their lives, and I wanted to ruin it for them. I wanted to ruin their fun just like they ruined mine, as they would never accept me among them. I screamed at them
with rage as I sprayed them with my super soaker. When the boys started to yell and chase after me, I quickly got into my car and drove away. I was giddy with ecstatic, hate-fueled excitement. I wished I could spray boiling oil at the foul beasts. They deserved to die horrible, painful deaths just for the crime of enjoying a better life than me.

He gets a Super Soaker and fills it with orange juice and sprays it at people just because they have girlfriends and he does not. In his eyes, they are beast worthy of death. Talk about major overreaction! :crazy:

Also weird that he remembers this incident as every single one of the girls being beautiful blondes. Talk about a crazy obsession! Living in Southern California I seriously doubt if even half the girls were blonde. Not to mention the trend here is to dye your hair brunette.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

.....and soon there will be very ugly lawsuits popping up all over the place....


:banghead:

 

[zwiebel]

The very best chance to get ER locked up where he needed to be was when he gatecrashed that party and tried to throw several young women off the roof, I believe. He could possibly even have been charged with attempted murder.

Unfortunately, in defending the young women, the young men with them pushed ER off the roof himself, and his leg was broken. The situation that then resulted - the aggressor being the only one to end up with a serious injury - made prospects of any complaints resulting in a prosecution very remote.

The people attacked had ER saying they were the attackers, and although police obviously did not believe his version, it looks like they (or prosecutors) decided with a broken leg to back it up, there was no realistic chance of a successful prosecution.

 

[jjenny]

The very best chance to get ER locked up where he needed to be was when he gatecrashed that party and tried to throw several young women off the roof, I believe. He could possibly even have been charged with attempted murder.

Unfortunately, in defending the young women, the young men with them pushed ER off the roof himself, and his leg was broken. The situation that then resulted - the aggressor being the only one to end up with a serious injury - made prospects of any complaints resulting in a prosecution very remote.

The people attacked had ER saying they were the attackers, and although police obviously did not believe his version, it looks like they (or prosecutors) decided with a broken leg to back it up, there was no realistic chance of a successful prosecution.

He also described driving and throwing his coffee drink at young women. If he was caught he could have been charged with some sort of assault.

 

[zwiebel]

He also described driving and throwing his coffee drink at young women. If he was caught he could have been charged with some sort of assault.

Yes, he did that a few times. Then either ran off or drove off very quickly. I'm wondering if some reports were made, but police didn't get a license plate number or enough to identify the suspect.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I don't know the psychology of it all....but they are actually quite beautiful pictures (IMO).

They are beautiful pictures...

But... I can't help but wonder if ER had knowledge of them... and if they were some sort of "trigger" for his delusional state of mind...

JMO

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

"A social worker as recently as last week was concerned by Rodger’s behavior and contacted law enforcement."


http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2014...son-is-gunman-in-deadly-isla-vista-shootings/


I wonder what happened with this. A week ago. Why did a 22 yo have a social worker?

http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/explor...re-team/clinical-support-staff/social-worker/

"Adult services: roles include working with people with mental health problems or learning difficulties in residential care, working with offenders (supervising them in the community and supporting them to find work), assisting people with HIV/AIDS and working with older people at home helping to sort out problems with their health, housing or benefits."

All posts are my opinion only. Sent via Tapatalk

BBM...

Thank you, Gngr~Snp...:seeya:

I thought I had read something about a social worker (health care person) contacting LE recently regarding ER... but I couldn't be sure where...

 

[zwiebel]

First pictures of the three remaining victims released.

http://www.mercurynews.com/immigrat...l-stabbing-victims-santa-barbara-rampage-grew

 

[zwiebel]

Not sure at all why that heading in the article I just posted says immigration?