CA - Elliot Rodger kills 6, injures 13 in Isla Vista, Near UC Santa Barbara, #1

[Flutterby80]

id read the thread and all the info provided.

he was obviously mentally ill. he was not just some Ahole.

I actually have read the thread over the last 2 days, but didn't want to scroll back pages to see if this particular link had been posted.

I've also read numerous news articles, interviews, watched videos made by Elliot, and read parts of his manifesto.

I don't know that he was "obviously" mentally ill because I am not a health-care professional, had never met Elliot, and only know what I've read. He SEEMS like he was mentally ill to me. I am not denying that. But I do know an a-hole when I see one.

I really don't buy that they are mutually exclusive. It might have been mental illness that drove him to murder and suicide, but his personality kept him from having friends.

 

[Quester]

I'd like to know what liability ER's therapist will have as a result of not having registered/informed whoever of ER's mental illness/personality disorder and, as a result, ER was able to obtain gunS without problem. TIA

 

[jjenny]

I'd like to know what liability ER's therapist will have as a result of not having registered/informed whoever of ER's mental/personality illness and, as a result, ER was able to obtain gunS without problem. TIA

A therapist isn't obligated to register anyone anywhere. Who is the therapist supposed to inform about ER's mental illness? No one, because of patient confidentiality laws. The only time therapist is supposed to act is if he/she knows that the patient is about to harm himself or others.

 

[Quester]

A therapist isn't obligated to register anyone anywhere. Who is the therapist supposed to inform about ER's mental illness? No one, because of patient confidentiality laws. The only time therapist is supposed to act is if he/she knows that the patient is about to harm himself or others.

I thought in CA there is a hold on purchasing guns during which a check is done for a history of serious mental health issues which wouldn't warrant safe gun ownership. ???

 

[kaos]

If you're really interested in this subject, check out the work of the French writer Michel Houellebecq, in particular "The Extension of the Domain of the Struggle" (unfortunately titled "Whatever" in the US version). He writes about a sexually frustrated male who is overcome with a desire for murder and vengeance.

Below is the diagram that ER posted on his facebook page:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...eranged-plan-kill-women-not-sleeping-him.html

Here are Houellebecq's words, which, I believe, explain the diagram:

“It's a fact...that in societies like ours sex truly represents a second system of differentiation, completely independent of money; and as a system of differentiation it functions just as mercilessly. The effects of these two systems are, furthermore, strictly equivalent. Just like unrestrained economic liberalism, and for similar reasons, sexual liberalism produces phenomena of absolute pauperization . Some men make love every day; others five or six times in their life, or never. Some make love with dozens of women; others with none. It's what's known as 'the law of the market'...Economic liberalism is an extension of the domain of the struggle, its extension to all ages and all classes of society. Sexual liberalism is likewise an extension of the domain of the struggle, its extension to all ages and all classes of society.”

I finally finished the manifesto and in relation to the above and his ideology of creating a world without women, where do gay men register in his universe? It doesn't seem to have occurred to him that even if he eliminated all women that men would just turn to each other and they'd still probably be having more sex than ER would.

 

[jjenny]

I thought in CA there is a hold on purchasing guns during which a check is done for a history of serious mental health issues which wouldn't warrant safe gun ownership. ???

What people don't seem to understand is that by mental health issues the law means someone who has been involuntarily committed. This guy hasn't been involuntarily committed.

 

[Dmacky]

Thank you! Exactly. A child could have all the love and nurturing and parents, video games, movies will still be to blame. People will always find someone or something to blame when something they don't understand happens. You want to, you need to, because it's incomprehensible that this could happen.

As far as the parents letting him have his hair bleached when he was younger, is it the best parenting decision? No. Is it a hill to die on? No. Do kids who get their hair bleached grow up to be serial killers? No. The singer Gwen Stefani has let her boys bleach their hair, paint their nails, etc, and you never see anything scandalous going on there.

I'd like to find a rhyme or reason for this tragedy, but the kid was evil and messed up in the head. Someone who felt as he felt at such a young age was already beyond the point of rehabilitation.

Meanwhile, some children grow up in less than ideal environments and grow up to be compassionate good citizens. No rhyme or reason.

I'm not looking for skeletons in closets, I'm not watching a drama unfold on a TV show. The parents couldn't save him or the poor victims, but by God all evidence points to them trying, multiple times, for years.

So many people overlook the families of the criminals. The innocent victims deserve to be enveloped in love and support and I'd rather talk about them any day and keep their memories alive than focus on ER, but I also feel for the families of the criminal (in some cases). They get treated horribly. Imagine the shame, the embarrassment, the guilt. They too lost a child, and not only that, but they found out their child was a mass murderer who was also planning to kill them

:goodpost: Cece ~

 

[zwiebel]

I thought the link I posted was to just a video not an article.?.

Quester, I do not know why I am calling a video an article, so have no explanation. You'll just have to forgive me. I sabotaged my own TV a year? two? ago, to stop my husband watching cricket. It worked so well we've had no TV since, so everything's become the written word or radio for me now........

 

[Suthrnqt]

while i agree with you...

who does the educating and how do you force people to be educated?
we were educated up our arse with "dont do drugs" but we have an entire population still strung out on drugs.

we cant force parents to raise kids a certain way. people are very very defensive when it comes to telling them that they need to do something with their kid whether it be stop feeding them junk food that is making them fat or get them mental health because "i feel your kid needs it".

my question is: how do you FORCE parents (and society) to see the signs and act on them?
there is so much that goes on behind closed doors that kids will inevitably slip through the cracks. there are just so many factors in this topic.

i also feel its a slippery slope because what if a kid just as regular ol' anxiety that does not lead to killing sprees or violence and someone feels that is a sign.....and then that kid is forced into a mental health situation that he really didnt need.

*sigh* I dont know what the answer is. it seems to be a pretty fine line on gestapo tactics and freedom under the constitution....and a whole lot of other stuff in between.



on the other note....
i also dont think there was an[modsnip] on fox going on about sex orientation. i saw plenty of that here and on liberal sites. it is not out of the realm of logic to address the fact that maybe he was confused on his sexuality which contributed to some of the issues. it may or not be true, but i believe it is part of the overall analysis of this kid's mind and what was going on with him. i believe it is just as valid as part of the huge puzzle as disusing whether or not divorce plays a factor in a child's life - negative or positive.

BBM

Hate to burst your bubble, but Faux News was definitely going on about ER's sexual orientation. Now, I didn't call their reporters idiots, but I concur. arty:

 

[butwhatif?]

Perhaps related to a traumatic experience with a blonde (or blondes) during his formative years. He mentioned one female by name several times as a source of humiliation. I googled her name and a pictures of a beautiful blonde in a bikini came up. Don't know if she's a model now or just an exhibitionist.

JMO

'I'll never forgive her': Meet the childhood pal-turned-model whom virgin killer claimed had teased him and who he said was the reason he saw all women as 'mean, cruel and heartless creatures'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-cruel-heartless-creatures.html#ixzz32qZA2i4f

 

[LolaMoon08]

I finally finished the manifesto and in relation to the above and his ideology of creating a world without women, where do gay men register in his universe? It doesn't seem to have occurred to him that even if he eliminated all women that men would just turn to each other and they'd still probably be having more sex than ER would.

Thank you!

Not only just that, but the few women he does keep locked away to reproduce (who wants to guess they would be tall, hot blondes), how would he choose which men would be masturbating to inseminate these women? Surely not Black men, Hispanic men, or Asian men! And what happens to when too many infant girls are born? Does he kill them?

 

[Gardenlady]

Perhaps related to a traumatic experience with a blonde (or blondes) during his formative years. He mentioned one female by name several times as a source of humiliation. I googled her name and a pictures of a beautiful blonde in a bikini came up. Don't know if she's a model now or just an exhibitionist.

JMO

Really? Wearing a bikini and having pictures of yourself in it amounts to being an exhibitionist?




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[CARIIS]

Both short!!

When I saw this I thought maybe a first person, about teens and the illiness

One man chronicles living with Asperger's - YouTube


and then at how puberty works with this popukation:



Does both male and female:

Aspergers Syndrome Teens - Dating and Puberty - YouTube

'I'll never forgive her': Meet the childhood pal-turned-model whom virgin killer claimed had teased him and who he said was the reason he saw all women as 'mean, cruel and heartless creatures'

His inabilty to process that she was not into him at all , he turned around to her teasing him....and then when nothing happened (unaware that she had no interest) for him that became that she taunted him, and then REJECTED him

that sets up the whole cycle.........................

about ER's sexual orientation. : It is obsurd! A gay teen suffering with auspergers would have the identical inability to socialize, handle a relationship, and feel rejected over and over.... only by males Perceived rejection Perceived rejection Perceived rejection

and if you think about it ,his normative.at his age at least, to be preoccupied wiht 'hot" girls" is pretty prevelant , the repetive "blond" is just that rumination same as his with sex

in addition his issues with male peers were much more fr4om his perspective that they were getting , (woman) what he so wanted.............they were theives......

creating a world without women get rid of what hurt him Woman and get rid of who stole from him

in that post on his Facebook he got rid of both genders............


what liability ER's therapist will have as a result of not having registered/informed whoever of ER's mental illness/personality d from my understanding of what happened, when told the therapist did let authoties know and fufilled "duty to warn"

as far as I know Dr. Fenton (Holmes doctor) same thing happened - she contacted LE weeks before

who was so alarmed by his behavior that she contacted the University’s “Threat Assessment” team.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...st-documents-released-unsealed_n_3017933.html

 

[Quester]

What people don't seem to understand is that by mental health issues the law means someone who has been involuntarily committed. This guy hasn't been involuntarily committed.

Apparently there is more to it:

Mental Health-Related Prohibited Categories in California
Posted on May 11, 2014

California prohibits the following people from purchasing or possessing firearms because of mental health-related issues:


1. Inpatient Treatment: ...

2. Threats of Physical Violence: A person who communicates to a licensed psychotherapist a serious threat of physical violence against a reasonably identifiable victim or victims.2 In 2013, this prohibition was extended from a period of six months to five years after the licensed psychotherapist reports the identity of the person making the threat to local law enforcement. The subject of this prohibition may petition to have it removed.3

3. Adjudication: ...
4. Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity: ...
5. Incompetent to Stand Trial: ...
6. Conservatorship: ...
7. 72-Hour Detention: ...
8. 14-Day Detention: ...

http://smartgunlaws.org/mental-health-related-prohibited-categories-in-california/​

 

[zwiebel]

'I'll never forgive her': Meet the childhood pal-turned-model whom virgin killer claimed had teased him and who he said was the reason he saw all women as 'mean, cruel and heartless creatures'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-cruel-heartless-creatures.html#ixzz32qZA2i4f

Oh no. Poor girl. He had a photographic memory for perceived or actual slights. Including something that happened way back - 6th or 7th birthday?

It will be outrageous if this young woman gets the blame for an obviously already existing mental condition in a boy she once knew, in my opinion....

 

[jjenny]

Apparently there is more to it:

Mental Health-Related Prohibited Categories in California
Posted on May 11, 2014

California prohibits the following people from purchasing or possessing firearms because of mental health-related issues:


1. Inpatient Treatment: ...

2. Threats of Physical Violence: A person who communicates to a licensed psychotherapist a serious threat of physical violence against a reasonably identifiable victim or victims.2 In 2013, this prohibition was extended from a period of six months to five years after the licensed psychotherapist reports the identity of the person making the threat to local law enforcement. The subject of this prohibition may petition to have it removed.3

3. Adjudication: ...
4. Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity: ...
5. Incompetent to Stand Trial: ...
6. Conservatorship: ...
7. 72-Hour Detention: ...
8. 14-Day Detention: ...

http://smartgunlaws.org/mental-health-related-prohibited-categories-in-california/​

If the patient threatens himself or others then and only then the therapist could have them reported. Up until then the therapist doesn't have to (and actually can't) register them anywhere.
Large proportion of the population has some sort of mental illness.

 

[Gardenlady]

Find it soooo interesting that everyone is avoiding the elephant in the room of this dude's blatant hatred for women. [modsnip]

His views were nurtured, encouraged, and found a home with a scary segment of the male population that is NOT mentally ill. They're just a$$hole troglodytes who think women owe them sex and fealty who haven't killed anyone yet.


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[jjenny]

Oh no. Poor girl. He had a photographic memory for perceived or actual slights. Including something that happened way back - 6th or 7th birthday?

It will be outrageous if this young woman gets the blame for an obviously already existing mental condition in a boy she once knew, in my opinion....

I agree. This guy had a very skewed view of reality anyway.

 

[jjenny]

Find it soooo interesting that everyone is avoiding the elephant in the room of this suse's blatant hatred for women. [modsnip]

His views were nurtured, encouraged, and found a home with a scary segment of the male population that is NOT mentally ill. They're just a$$hole troglodytes who think women owe them sex and fealty who haven't killed anyone yet.


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He hated women and men. He actually killed more men than women.

 

[human]

I don't really care about "blame" but more about solutions and preventions of more of these types of killings from seriously deranged young adults. There needs to be a concerted plan of action for young children who exhibit profound mental illnesses.
Play dates isn't going to cut it. "Socializing" strategies aren't going to cut it.
Waiting for them to become adults so then it is no longer the parent's problem isn't going to cut it.
And obviously, our failed system of treatment for mentally ill adults isn't going to do it.

I feel the first step is identifying the problems at a very early age and a robust level of therapy including in some cases, medication. There may need to be reporting, follow-up, school intervention, etc etc.

Let's discuss solutions.

Wouldn't that be nice, but we already have hears the cry about govt intervention into what people believe are their private family lives.

If a school starts questioning, then starts the rounds of private schools or right away to home schooled.

Can 't see some people allowing it and I see them lobbying Congress to stop it