CA - Elliot Rodger kills 6, injures 13 in Isla Vista, Near UC Santa Barbara, #1

[CARIIS]

I hate to say this, but that is aweful shivering AND the first like 15 hours the press conf they said (if you go back and look) 6 fatalties BUT for hours it was the impression that it all was while he was driving.


Then the next press he said something like bullets and other injuries ( knew about bikde at that point)

Then gruesome scene (thats it), we have gotten shots to arm, shots to belly, eye (specfic injuries) BUt not only in my head (some news confused too) , casue of perceptions given earlier, when the 3 roomates came out my first impression was he killed 9

Then they clarified 3 outside plus roomates

another thing that struck me was when pics of roomates came out I it struck me that they all were tiny (cultural but your with me)

Man I hope were off here

Then today it was not a knife (news reprot) it was a sharp object

this is scary

 

[jjenny]

Me too. Everyone else was the bad guy.

It wouldn't surprise me if he did frame his roommate with the candles.
Although reportedly the guy did plead guilty to petty theft, so who knows.

 

[kaos]

The perps on a plane on 9/11 were not armed with semi automatic guns. Also the plane went down and they are all dead.
I don't know what else to say on the matter except it's comparing apples and oranges.

I'm not forcing you to say anything on the matter. You've stated you couldn't see how the girls could possibly have fought back because ER had guns. I think they could and would have fought back regardless of the guns. He may have injured a few but I still think they'd have overpowered him.

 

[Quester]

I found it very interesting that ER was afraid to drive and get his license, and didn't do so until he was 20 IIRC. He failed his written and road tests twice. Riding his bike, the bus or walking seemed to be his main form of transportation unless his parent drove him or a friend did.

Was the fear of driving because it had too many variables? I am curious to know what the rationale is. TIA

I noted that strange part also. ER wrote, something to the effect, at 16 he didn't get his license, he wrote, because adults drive cars - he didn't sound like he felt old enough, capable enough, ? to drive a car. So ... he carried on, taking the bus, catching a ride with his mother and complaining all the way about it.

IIRC, sounded like his parents nudged him into getting his license when he was around ?20?.

 

[Paladine]

Self worth is not something that can be aquired by purchase. Most of us know that. ER seemed to believe it was...Armani shirts, the RIGHT address, cool haircut, BMW, if he only won the lottery and had a 'hot girlfriend'...I don't believe he thought he was all that. I believe he thought he was worthless and only by aquisition of the above could he prove his worth. Was that inborn? Was that a flaw, unbeknownst to them, in parenting? I have no idea. This false bravado seen in the writings and in the videos was just a mask for an insecure, mentally ill man-boy. ALL just my opinion.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Let me preface this by saying that I am NOT blaming his parents or anyone else for the murders and assaults committed by ER. I seriously refuse to play his game by blaming everyone else for HIS actions.

I do wonder, though, if all of the material indulgence didn't serve to fan the flames of his superiority complex. Maybe I am just so far removed from the Cali upper class lifestyle that they seemed to live that I don't relate. But yeah, I don't.

I'll freely admit that there are certain situations I do blame the parents for... at this moment. Oh, I absolutely believe ER knew how to play (fool) them, especially his mother. But, there were a few moments in his manifesto when I thought the parents should have done far more than just placate him and they did placate him A LOT. Especially in his younger years. He really needed to be punished and the only one who really punished him or kept close eye on his behavior was the step-mother.

I do not blame them for him going out and killing/physically hurting all those people. They DID try and get the police involved and ER fooled them too. What is a parent to think when they call LE only for LE to come back and say everything is fine?

Every ounce of my heart goes out to them the day of the shooting. They were frantic! They called 911. They were too late.

I am sure they are beating themselves up far more than they should be right now. They are probably the only two people on this earth that could read that manifesto and still be fooled by his words... because they probably honestly want to believe their son is/was not a monster. No parent wants to think of their children that way.

They are going to need a lot of counseling! A lot! So, although I do believe that some things could have been done different when he was younger, I can't and won't harp on that because I honestly do believe ER was a monster... since childhood.

 

[jjenny]

I'm not forcing you to say anything on the matter. You've stated you couldn't see how the girls could possibly have fought back because ER had guns. I think they could and would have fought back regardless of the guns. He may have injured a few but I still think they'd have overpowered him.

You can think whatever it is you want to think.

 

[HMSHood]

In January, Rodger accused Hong of stealing three candles, valued at US$22, said Joyce Dudley, Santa Barbara County district attorney.

When Hong said he didn’t know where the candles were, Rodger performed a citizen’s arrest and called 911. Sheriff’s deputies found the candles on Hong’s bed. He was arrested and charged with a petty theft infraction.


I have a strong feeling that CYH never stole those candles at all and that ER planted them on his bed.

I would not be surprised either. Rodger always feels he is the victim, no one else. I wonder if this may have been a dry run.

 

[katydid23]

I am not going to lay the blame at the feet of this killer's parents. I think they did the best they could. They were not in full denial. They got him treatment and they tried to work with him and tried to understand him and soothe him. They did what parents do, when met with an overwhelming child rearing crisis. They try to deal with it by hiring professionals.

Obviously it ended in total devastation. But I see his family as victims as well. My younger brother has been diagnosed with various mental illnesses, but I think paranoid schizophrenic is the best fit. I am 61 now and this has been going on since I was in my 20's. It was all consuming for my mother, and still is. She is in her 80's, but every Tuesday she goes by his apt. and drops off a bag of groceries on his front steps. I am just grateful that he never hurt anyone. it was touch and go there for awhile. We had him committed on 3 day holds several times. A couple times they held him for a month or two. but usually it was three days.

When he had his first meltdown, at 23, my mom and I went into his room, after being locked out for weeks. He had black construction paper on all his windows, and over the tv screen, and tin foil on the am radio and strange scrawled letters all over the walls, writings to various voices in his head. He was convinced that Johnny Carson was talking to him personally and telling him to join the cIA. He thought my boyfriend was an operative in the CIA that was out to get him. He attacked him twice. Even upon hearing all of the above, including a tape recording of him ranting about the CIA etc, the hospital only kept him for 3 days.

What's a parent to do? My parents tried everything. But he was a very stubborn, passionate young man, that was convinced that his delusions were real. We became the enemy in trying to help him. It is a lose-lose situation.

One time he took a bunch of the living room furniture out back and stabbed it with an ice pick, hundreds of times. My older brother called the cops and an ambulance. he was home 3 days later.

ETA: after yrs of trying various combos of meds , we finally hit upon the right combo. He has been relatively stable for about 20 yrs. But he still trolls people on the net. But through his 20's and 30's he kept refusing to take his meds consistently. And he had many meltdowns. And there was not a damn thing we could do about it.

 

[HMSHood]

Let me preface this by saying that I am NOT blaming his parents or anyone else for the murders and assaults committed by ER. I seriously refuse to play his game by blaming everyone else for HIS actions.

I do wonder, though, if all of the material indulgence didn't serve to fan the flames of his superiority complex. Maybe I am just so far removed from the Cali upper class lifestyle that they seemed to live that I don't relate. But yeah, I don't.

When I read his manifesto he talks of getting things he liked. It fueled his narcissism.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Yes, watch the videos below of the children and then note that ER's parents likely went through the exact same thing when he was a child.

ER's mental illness had been noted from early childhood so this isn't something that appeared out of the blue the instant he turned 22. And what can you do with a young child that behaves this way? Why do we have so many more children with Spectrum Disorders? Do computer and video games exacerbate hallucinatory experiences in young males (in particular) that play these games obsessively and also have a Spectrum Disorder?

I feel for all the victims involved. I pray that sensible, comprehensive solutions are offered for our challenging mental health care system in the USA.

This can go on for hours..
check in with what YOU are actually feeling while watching

. NOtice mom and dad competly escalating scene(same with med exapmple).

Again, be in tune with what is going on for YOU. Imagine years of this, and imagine others events more intense.

If you really want to expericne it turn your volume up just a bit.

Asperger's Daily meltdown !!! must watch. - YouTube

Now, my bet is this mom has gone to therapy!:
A
four year old with aspergers syndrom and part of a meltdown (note fixation and repetitve language) - YouTube

What neighbor described: “He was so emotional with like water faucets coming out down in his cheeks for half an hour.
any difference between the videos and what others expericne with ER?


it's always the formal "mother and father: Inability to develop or feel and authentic atachment to anything in theirs....its an inabilty not a fault.........

 

[kaos]

You can think whatever it is you want to think.

Thanks for the permission.

 

[Bravo]

I'm not forcing you to say anything on the matter. You've stated you couldn't see how the girls could possibly have fought back because ER had guns. I think they could and would have fought back regardless of the guns. He may have injured a few but I still think they'd have overpowered him.

Something I guess we will never know. IMO if there is a gunman and your a target with no weapon. RUN. Your odds of being shot are greater trying to over power a gunman. It would not be my first instinct.

 

[kaos]

Something I guess we will never know. IMO if there is a gunman and your a target with no weapon. RUN. Your odds of being shot are greater trying to over power a gunman. It would not be my first instinct.

I just don't think it would have been as easy for him as he thought it was going to be but you're right, we'll never know.

 

[Paladine]

My Brother had a drug-induced psycosis (spelling sucks) when he was 19. He came to my apartment and started telling me how the FBI were following him, we're Canadian, btw, no FBI here...he would write notes all night long cause he thought we were bugged...I called the police for a hold, they took him to hospital for 48 hours and then released him. He then hitchhiked 1,000 miles to my Mothers, where he lined bullets up, 3...one for each of my parents and him. Luckily, my parents got him into a treatment facility and he returned to normal, once clean. My heart goes out to any family dealing with mental illness. NOW, I'm outta here, WS is addicting.

 

[CARIIS]

Check out the reimbersment for us, for children, govt funded intervention.

By the time you are done with the session 45 min , the treatment plan 15, the progress note 5, scheduling 5, billing 5, consulting with colleages 15 on each suffering child and divide the time by the payment for the session your at $9.45 cents clear, and putting in60 hour weeks

The Social Worker caseloads are ugh

Anyone working in govt programs (cept VA) Medicare was not bad but they are slashing that now, do it because they care

you are at average 90 minutes per one session

far more than just placate him:

If you did look at the videos, with these kind of disorders, when they aggitated, and you have learned that there behavior is a result of an illiness, then you only goal is to keep everyone safe in the moment

when the first parents engaged him , with all sorts of s"stuff" consequences etc, all that happens is everyhthing escalates, Watch her aggressive behavoirs when dad first tried ttypical parenting for a child not suffering wiht the illiness.

She became more aggressive.But the parents that chose not to understand what is happening and parent the same way as one would do for normative child , which as you can see in the video benefits noone, prolongs the event, increases change of someont getting hurt and does nothing to prevent the next event when their world becomes overwhelming

- its like punishing a amputee for not running like they did before they lost there leg!

 

[LolaMoon08]

IMO, he was afraid of almost everything. A change in seating arrangements, walking in a college class, it all seemed a big deal...this doesn't surprise me.

BBM He was not afraid to walk into a college class. On many occasions he made sure he was the last one to walk into the class so that everyone could STOP what they were doing to admire his expensive clothes and the greatness that was in front of them.

And the only thing I remember about the whole seating arrangement issue was that he was stuck at a table with the "cool" kids and he was happy about that. But, when they didn't bow down to his godliness... they were his enemy.

 

[Dmacky]

I hate to say this, but that is aweful shivering AND the first like 15 hours the press conf they said (if you go back and look) 6 fatalties BUT for hours it was the impression that it all was while he was driving.


Then the next press he said something like bullets and other injuries ( knew about bikde at that point)

Then gruesome scene (thats it), we have gotten shots to arm, shots to belly, eye (specfic injuries) BUt not only in my head (some news confused too) , casue of perceptions given earlier, when the 3 roomates came out my first impression was he killed 9

Then they clarified 3 outside plus roomates

another thing that struck me was when pics of roomates came out I it struck me that they all were tiny (cultural but your with me)

Man I hope were off here

Then today it was not a knife (news reprot) it was a sharp object

this is scary

BBM

I read here earlier, back thread ~ that there were knives and a machete found in the apartment. Heartbreaking

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I am not going to lay the blame at the feet of this killer's parents. I think they did the best they could. They were not in full denial. They got him treatment and they tried to work with him and tried to understand him and soothe him. They did what parents do, when met with an overwhelming child rearing crisis. They try to deal with it by hiring professionals.

Obviously it ended in total devastation. But I see his family as victims as well. My younger brother has been diagnosed with various mental illnesses, but I think paranoid schizophrenic is the best fit. I am 61 now and this has been going on since I was in my 20's. It was all consuming for my mother, and still is. She is in her 80's, but every Tuesday she goes by his apt. and drops off a bag of groceries on his front steps. I am just grateful that he never hurt anyone. it was touch and go there for awhile. We had him committed on 3 day holds several times. A couple times they held him for a month or two. but usually it was three days.

When he had his first meltdown, at 23, my mom and I went into his room, after being locked out for weeks. He had black construction paper on all his windows, and over the tv screen, and tin foil on the am radio and strange scrawled letters all over the walls, writings to various voices in his head. He was convinced that Johnny Carson was talking to him personally and telling him to join the cIA. He thought my boyfriend was an operative in the CIA that was out to get him. He attacked him twice. Even upon hearing all of the above, including a tape recording of him ranting about the CIA etc, the hospital only kept him for 3 days.

What's a parent to do? My parents tried everything. But he was a very stubborn, passionate young man, that was convinced that his delusions were real. We became the enemy in trying to help him. It is a lose-lose situation.

One time he took a bunch of the living room furniture out back and stabbed it with an ice pick, hundreds of times. My older brother called the cops and an ambulance. he was home 3 days later.

ETA: after yrs of trying various combos of meds , we finally hit upon the right combo. He has been relatively stable for about 20 yrs. But he still trolls people on the net. But through his 20's and 30's he kept refusing to take his meds consistently. And he had many meltdowns. And there was not a damn thing we could do about it.

While I do understand and empathisize with your situation, Katy.....ER's diagnosis is not the same as your brother's. Your brother's schizophrenia had a very typical type of onset (acute) at a very typical age (22).
ER's type of mental illness presented itself at a very young age (5) and his family members were very aware of it. I am not so much as blaming them but they did have lots of time between age 5 up until 22 to take appropriate actions.
Did they fail, well....that could be debated. Blaming will never solve what we are experiencing as a society.
I'm sure we'll be hearing lots of stories to come.
And I bet there will be lots of lawsuits to boot.

 

[katydid23]

Yes, watch the videos below of the children and then note that ER's parents likely went through the exact same thing when he was a child.

ER's mental illness had been noted from early childhood so this isn't something that appeared out of the blue the instant he turned 22. And what can you do with a young child that behaves this way? Why do we have so many more children with Spectrum Disorders? Do computer and video games exacerbate hallucinatory experiences in young males (in particular) that play these games obsessively and also have a Spectrum Disorder?

I feel for all the victims involved. I pray that sensible, comprehensive solutions are offered for our challenging mental health care system in the USA.

I think violent video games have a lot to do with this. I will admit that my son played a lot of video games in his youth. Heck, he still plays them at age 26. But he is married and bought a house and works full time and graduated from University. So video games are not his ONLY diversion in life. But in the hands of Adam Lanza, games can become a very dangerous delusional tool. JMO :moo: