CA - Elliot Rodger kills 6, injures 13 in Isla Vista, Near UC Santa Barbara, #2

[Quester]

FYI: Article out today - officers cleared in Welfare Check - they followed protocol - article link posted up-thread.

 

[momrids6]

Given the laws re Mental Health as they are, I still find a problem with the well-being check. Perhaps LE was not versed in social media and didn't look, but that there was no registered gun check is highly troubling.

fwiw/jmo

The caller who identifed himself as a friend, not a mental health pro, and did not call LE directly; simply used a hotline, did not help any, imo. If a mental health pro called LE directly, and stated in no uncertain terms that ER was was a threat to others, I believe he would have been held.

There is a reason mental health pros make the big money, and have licenses.

 

[lawstudent]

Universities simply have no way to check students' backgrounds. I think they already check criminal histories. Roommate situations are definitely really risky - that's a downside of college. I always had a hard time with it and mine weren't even that bad. Some people were in nightmarish situations and it wasn't anything near this. My school had 4000 students per class - even if they wanted to look at everyone's social media to do some check, it can't happen.

If he managed to kill the roommates while they were awake, that certainly seems very difficult, and I can see why Cariis is thinking there is more to the story. However, if there was some sort of matching process, maybe ER had said he wanted quiet roommates who liked video games and that sort of thing. I did not go out on Friday nights in college - most students do, but there are a lot who don't. Maybe that wasn't their thing.

 

[Bernina]

There was a bit of an uproar a couple episodes ago when a scene was depicted in which many people considered it rape. It also deviated from the books from what I understand (my son will not let me read ahead of the series :tantrum: , scared I will leak a spoiler, lol).
I find it funny that everyone was so upset about it when the 2 people involved are a twin brother and sister who have been sleeping together for years and have children. but he pushed her into sex and they are going nuts about it.... :facepalm:

Anyway, there are also women on that show who are just as strong as the men. There are more than a few who are as bad@ss as the men on the show.
And yes there is a lot of degrading of certain women (prostitutes, lower class/serf type women, or just any woman who may end up in a bad situation). It has to be noted the books/series are set in a fantasy world that is similar to medieval times, so in that respect I doubt it is that much different from actual history in terms of how women are treated.

I guess my point is....Don't blame a TV show and or Books he may have read.
There are millions out there who enjoy it and have not gone on rampages.
For those with mental issues who watch it and see things in different ways, that can not be helped.


ETA- I am a bit passionate about this subject, as my user name is from the books :blushing:

:floorlaugh: Nymeria.......not blaming at all!
Just wondering if he (with either a mental disorder or whatever) could have picked up any of his behaviors/attitudes posed in his manifesto from that series.
You know me, not going to blame anyone but the murderer, unless there's strong, legitimate evidence to prove otherwise...........doncha know?:floorlaugh:

 

[MyBelle]

I've not had time to keep-up here on the threads so I am not sure if it has been mentioned that Sheriff Bill Brown is up for re-election in early June (soon).

As a voter, I am not so sure anymore...despite the Indy's endorsement and my own review prior to this dreadful event.

Given the laws re Mental Health as they are, I still find a problem with the well-being check. Perhaps LE was not versed in social media and didn't look, but that there was no registered gun check is highly troubling.

Sheriff appears too much of an apologist for his dept than I'm comfortable with.

fwiw/jmo

I'm not sure what you expected the well-being check to accomplish even if the registered guns would have shown up. He was an adult and acquired them properly. Cops can't foretell the future.

What will we do if the investigation concludes ER wasn't mentally ill but just another deeply troubled kid who grew up miserable in a broken home? His decision not only to kill himself but to do it in a spectacular fashion doesn't seem to be one with roots in mental illness and that's pretty scary.

JMO

 

[shana]

FYI: Article out today - officers cleared in Welfare Check - they followed protocol - article link posted up-thread.

Thanks! I read that article earlier today and was NOT surprised (nor impressed).

So, 'protocol' does not say a registered gun check would be in-order, even as a recommendation? Seems to me that such a query is an easy thing to do when such an alert/request is received by LE.

jmo

 

[Quester]

Oh yeah - that reminds me ...

What was that line he wrote in the manifesto or video from, something like:

... mountains of bones and rivers of blood ... ha ha ha [in creepy ER laugh]

TIA

 

[shana]

I'm not sure what you expected the well-being check to accomplish even if the registered guns would have shown up. He was an adult and acquired them properly. Cops can't foretell the future.

{snip}

JMO

At the very least, LE would have searched his apt or obtained a warrant to do so, based on the fact that he had recently purchased and registered 2 guns and the well-being check had been initiated (by whom is not the point...it was a Red Flag to be investigated).

jmo

 

[momrids6]

At the very least, LE would have searched his apt or obtained a warrant to do so, based on the fact that he had recently purchased and registered 2 guns and the well-being check had been initiated (by whom is not the point...it was a Red Flag to be investigated).

jmo

A welfare check intiated by a friend is not "just cause" to obtain a search warrant. He stabbed 3 people- had the forethought to lie (well) to cops, waited a month, and knew that shooting his roomies & their friend would make too much noise

 

[CARIIS]

Has anyone found his writings in PDF , or bigger font - what I have seen is hassle to read !

 

[Ray_of_hope]

Universities simply have no way to check students' backgrounds. I think they already check criminal histories. Roommate situations are definitely really risky - that's a downside of college. I always had a hard time with it and mine weren't even that bad. Some people were in nightmarish situations and it wasn't anything near this. My school had 4000 students per class - even if they wanted to look at everyone's social media to do some check, it can't happen.

If he managed to kill the roommates while they were awake, that certainly seems very difficult, and I can see why Cariis is thinking there is more to the story. However, if there was some sort of matching process, maybe ER had said he wanted quiet roommates who liked video games and that sort of thing. I did not go out on Friday nights in college - most students do, but there are a lot who don't. Maybe that wasn't their thing.

Private apartments will check also. At least there's a question area re: arrests and they claim to do checks. We learned the hard way. The third year my oldest was in college, (he lived in dorms for two years with roommates on campus and decided to live the off campus life) he wasn't too crazy or communicative about his roommates and told my husband and I that he would meet us at restaurants. When asked about his roommates, he would just say he didn't care for them. Over my husbands objections, I showed up unannounced and to my great dismay found things were out of control. We immediately moved him out and paid the last 3 months rent to the apt. Best thing we ever did, but we were in a fortunate circumstance by my husband to do so. My son is eternally grateful and learned that not only could he trust us but more importantly, that we were there for him. No prior arrests for his roommates but I'm sure they have records by now. :jail:

 

[MyBelle]

Universities simply have no way to check students' backgrounds. I think they already check criminal histories. Roommate situations are definitely really risky - that's a downside of college. I always had a hard time with it and mine weren't even that bad. Some people were in nightmarish situations and it wasn't anything near this. My school had 4000 students per class - even if they wanted to look at everyone's social media to do some check, it can't happen.

If he managed to kill the roommates while they were awake, that certainly seems very difficult, and I can see why Cariis is thinking there is more to the story. However, if there was some sort of matching process, maybe ER had said he wanted quiet roommates who liked video games and that sort of thing. I did not go out on Friday nights in college - most students do, but there are a lot who don't. Maybe that wasn't their thing.

Actually, universities do have a way of checking and there can also be requirements for self-disclosure. But ER lived off-campus not in university housing. ER completed his high school requirement at an alternative school. He had started and quickly dropped out of classes at another college.

At a minimum, that should have been disclosed to his roommates and their parents. Being "quiet" is a useless comparison. ER wasn't quiet, he was anti-social. His educational record reflects a pattern.

JMO

 

[shana]

A welfare check intiated by a friend is not "just cause" to obtain a search warrant. He stabbed 3 people- had the forethought to lie (well) to cops, waited a month, and knew that shooting his roomies & their friend would make too much noise

As I said, I'm not up on the threads here, and did not read that the check was initiated by a friend. Has this been confirmed by LE?

What weapons he used is not my point. The fact that he had at least two registered semi-automatic hand guns is. I still see those recent purchases as a red flag, and had LE looked further, it may have discovered the machete or whatever other sharp weapons he was holding in his room, together with his writings.

jmo

 

[LinasK]

From Wikipedia:



5150 is the code section providing for involuntary commitment.

Calling someone in as actively suicidal would cause a policeman to say he has a possible 5150, but I think it is still a welfare check until the police officer determines a 5150 is needed. Calling someone in because they are acting weird or not responding and you fear they might be in trouble is a welfare check. Then the police officer requests the 5150, calls the ambulance, and takes the person to the hospital, where the doctors agree to approve the 5150 hold or not.

5150 is just the name of the code provision - it is used as shorthand for the involuntary hold, but you don't call in a 5150. Only an officer or doctor can initiate the hold after assessing the situation. A person can't call in that someone needs to be committed - he or she can report behavior that may necessitate a commitment, and the police will go check it out.

Although you are technically correct, anyone can call LE and say someone is a threat to themselves or others- which would NOT be a "welfare check" and once officers arrive, they will take them to a psych hospital by ambulance- code 5150 for an involuntary stay up to 72 hours which is medically determined. I have been a part of this process more than once, so I don't need to read a Wikipedia definition of it to know I am right.
Also, it is listed in police scanner codes as 5150, so yes an average citizen can "call in a 5150".

 

[Ray_of_hope]

Has anyone found his writings in PDF , or bigger font - what I have seen is hassle to read !

Try this one C. http://abclocal.go.com/three/kabc/kabc/My-Twisted-World.pdf

 

[Quester]

My Twisted World: http://www.scribd.com/doc/226068735/Manifesto-of-Elliot-Rodger

Clicking "Full View" at the top increased font size on my computer.

"Control" + "+" - also increases font size

 

[lawstudent]

Private apartments will check also. At least there's a question area re: arrests and they claim to do checks. We learned the hard way. The third year my oldest was in college, (he lived in dorms for two years with roommates on campus and decided to live the off campus life) he wasn't too crazy or communicative about his roommates and told my husband and I that he would meet us at restaurants. When asked about his roommates, he would just say he didn't care for them. Over my husbands objections, I showed up unannounced and to my great dismay found things were out of control. We immediately moved him out and paid the last 3 months rent to the apt. Best thing we ever did, but we were in a fortunate circumstance by my husband to do so. My son is eternally grateful and learned that not only could he trust us but more importantly, that we were there for him. No prior arrests for his roommates but I'm sure they have records by now. :jail:

Private apartments do the criminal check, but they can't tell if anyone is crazy. Obviously they have fewer rooms so they can be more discriminating if a total nutjob walks in or just someone who gives them the creeps. They meet the people ahead of time, which most schools don't. And most require the person to be working, so that makes a difference in stability, and they generally don't room with a bunch of people in close quarters. But if you find random roomies in a college town private apartment, I think the risk is about the same.

I live in a nice private apartment now in a nice area, which is a huge relief for me, but my next-door neighbor is a recluse who orders new clothing every day because he presumably doesn't rewear it. The other day he burned breakfast and the alarms went off, but he refused to let police/fire in or leave his apartment, or even open a window. He almost had to be hospitalized on a mental health hold. I have never seen him and have lived there 3 years. Other neighbors told me he does work but leaves at 4AM - not sure if that is true, because I've never heard him at 4AM. My landlord is pretty strict, but somehow this guy got by, and apparently he's hoarded and damaged the apartment. Now, I don't believe he is dangerous, because if he never leaves he can't hurt me! But he could have burned the place down and not called 911...

 

[CARIIS]

A welfare check intiated by a friend is not "just cause" to obtain a search warrant. He stabbed 3 people- had the forethought to lie (well) to cops, waited a month, and knew that shooting his roomies & their friend would make too much noise

I never thought of that - guns noise etc !

 

[momrids6]

:bump: :bump: HTH

From SBCSO, BBM:

05/29/2014 Updated Information on Isla Vista Mass Murder Case

April 30, 2014 “Check the Welfare” Call

At approximately 10:17 p.m. on Wednesday, April 30, 2014, the Santa Barbara County Emergency Communications Center received a call from a mental health staff member assigned to answer the Santa Barbara County Alcohol, Drug and Mental Health Toll Free Access Line. The staff member requested deputies check the welfare of 22-year-old Elliot Rodger, who lived at an apartment in the 6500 block of Seville Road in Isla Vista. The staff member said she had been contacted by a person who identified himself as a friend of Elliot Rodger. Based on information from the caller and Elliot Rodger’s mother, the staff member on the Mental Health hot line requested a welfare check on Elliot Rodger.
...
http://www.sbsheriff.org/05291401.html

As I said, I'm not up on the threads here, and did not read that the check was initiated by a friend. Has this been confirmed by LE?

What weapons he used is not my point. The fact that he had at least two registered semi-automatic hand guns is. I still see those recent purchases as a red flag, and had LE looked further, it may have discovered the machete or whatever other sharp weapons he was holding in his room, together with his writings.

jmo

See links above for LE confirmation.. ER had rights, and no criminal record as well. The ball was not dropped by LE, imo.

 

[MyBelle]

At the very least, LE would have searched his apt or obtained a warrant to do so, based on the fact that he had recently purchased and registered 2 guns and the well-being check had been initiated (by whom is not the point...it was a Red Flag to be investigated).

jmo

All a well-being check will accomplish is to make sure the person is safe and they determined ER was safe.

LE can't violate someone's Rights. ER had a right to the gun.

JMO