CA - Elliot Rodger kills 6, injures 13 in Isla Vista, Near UC Santa Barbara, #2

[CARIIS]

On one website his manifesto has been read over 1 million!

Views: 1,073,706

http://www.scribd.com/doc/226068735/Manifesto-of-Elliot-Rodger

 

[cartercar]

Has anyone found his writings in PDF , or bigger font - what I have seen is hassle to read !

Here ya go:
Elliot Rodger's "Manifesto"

If the link doesn't work, it is the first search result when you Google Elliot Rodger Manifesto.

 

[shana]

I never thought of that - guns noise etc !

iirc, a former roommate reported hearing 'clicking sounds' as if from a gun from the killer's room.

This killer perfected his plan, certainly in the month following the well-being check. He said he wanted to kill his housemates as they slept and would derive pleasure from so doing (paraphrase). He wanted his apt as a torture/killing chamber and achieved that goal, silently.

jmo

 

[shana]

All a well-being check will accomplish is to make sure the person is safe and they determined ER was safe.

LE can't violate someone's Rights. ER had a right to the gun.

JMO

Thanks. I'm well-aware, and I'm not questioning gun rights or the right to own a gun. What I am questioning is a person who has been reported to be (at best) a bit unbalanced having recently purchased guns.

jmo

 

[CARIIS]

Private apartments do the criminal check, but they can't tell if anyone is crazy. Obviously they have fewer rooms so they can be more discriminating if a total nutjob walks in or just someone who gives them the creeps. They meet the people ahead of time, which most schools don't. And most require the person to be working, so that makes a difference in stability, and they generally don't room with a bunch of people in close quarters. But if you find random roomies in a college town private apartment, I think the risk is about the same.

I live in a nice private apartment now in a nice area, which is a huge relief for me, but my next-door neighbor is a recluse who orders new clothing every day because he presumably doesn't rewear it. The other day he burned breakfast and the alarms went off, but he refused to let police/fire in or leave his apartment, or even open a window. He almost had to be hospitalized on a mental health hold. I have never seen him and have lived there 3 years. Other neighbors told me he does work but leaves at 4AM - not sure if that is true, because I've never heard him at 4AM. My landlord is pretty strict, but somehow this guy got by, and apparently he's hoarded and damaged the apartment. Now, I don't believe he is dangerous, because if he never leaves he can't hurt me! But he could have burned the place down and not called 911...

They meet the people ahead of time, which most schools don't.

In the manifesto he said his mom went to sign the lease --- so they probably had limited contact with him

 

[CARIIS]

Here ya go:
Elliot Rodger's "Manifesto"

If the link doesn't work, it is the first search result when you Google Elliot Rodger Manifesto.

Awesome thanx!!

 

[MyBelle]

iirc, a former roommate reported hearing 'clicking sounds' as if from a gun from the killer's room.

This killer perfected his plan, certainly in the month following the well-being check. He said he wanted to kill his housemates as they slept and would derive pleasure from so doing (paraphrase). He wanted his apt as a torture/killing chamber and achieved that goal, silently.

jmo

And if the former roommate had called police about those "clicking" sounds he would have been told there was nothing police could do because his ownership of the gun was LEGAL.

The former roommate moved. Wisely so.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Thanks. I'm well-aware, and I'm not questioning gun rights or the right to own a gun. What I am questioning is a person who has been reported to be (at best) a bit unbalanced having recently purchased guns.

jmo

"reported to be a bit unbalanced" isn't a valid reason for law enforcement to search someone's house. That's just the way the law now works. I'm certainly not saying it is perfect just that it is what it is.

JMO

 

[CARIIS]

IMO Lets even go with on April 30 they took him in (they did what law states) and say they held him for the 72 hours. He certainly is not gonna meet criteria to go before a court who is going to place him longer than that. you should see what needs to be going on before the system will go that far!

Ok So on May 3 he is back at home. The notion that something would be different is an unknown. You can see the escalating in the videos before the final one , in terms of words, but in terms of attending to his basic stuff (grooming etc) he would just not meet criteria to be held for months


ADLs are a huge component of long term placement is the indivudal demonstrating an ability to care for self and needs to give up his right to make choices. Here they are:

• Bathing: includes grooming activities such as shaving, and brushing teeth and hair
• Dressing: choosing appropriate garments and being able to dress and undress, having no trouble with buttons, zippers or other fasteners
• Eating: being able to feed oneself
• Transferring: being able to walk, or, if not ambulatory, being able to transfer oneself from bed to wheelchair and back
• Continence: being able to control one’s bowels and bladder, or manage one’s incontinence independently
• Toileting: being able to use the toilet

Instrumental Activities of Daily Living

The instrumental activities of daily living include the following:

• Using the telephone: being able to dial numbers, look up numbers, etc.
• Managing medications: taking the appropriate medications and correct dosages on time
• Preparing meals: making appropriate food choices and preparing meals safely
• Maintaining the home: doing or arranging for housekeeping and laundry
• Managing finances: budgeting, paying mortgage/rent and bills on time, etc.
• Shopping: being able to shop for groceries and other small necessities, and transport purchases from store to home
• Using transportation: being able to drive or use public transportation for appointments, shopping, etc.

http://www.seniorhomes.com/p/activities-of-daily-living/

 

[CARIIS]

Anyone know anything about how much money is involved with the 3 guns and ammo?

DO they all use the same bullets, how fast fire, cost , bullet sizes etc>

 

[shana]

"reported to be a bit unbalanced" isn't a valid reason for law enforcement to search someone's house. That's just the way the law now works. I'm certainly not saying it is perfect just that it is what it is.

JMO

I am not clear on what exact words the report used; therefore, I typed 'a bit unbalanced'.

LE would have to get a warrant legally in court...or, a better-trained officer might have asked ER's permission to enter his quarters to sit and talk (and paid close attention to his reaction).

But then, suppose he had a gun on his person that LE noticed during its 'interview' with him. I suspect LE might have acted faster, and gun rights would not have come into such instant play (perhaps on a replay in a court of law; but as we know, it didn't come to that).

I realize the laws need changing, BIGTIME, but I'm also looking at this instance and what was missed that eventually enabled this tragedy. IOW, I do not know that LE was so restricted in what it could have done. Looks like a quick resolve, based on ER's word, nothing more...and that just doesn't work for me.

jmo

 

[Suthrnqt]

Lets even go with on April 30 they took him in (they did what law states) and say they held him for the 72 hours. He certainly is not gonna meet criteria to go before a court who is going to place him longer than that. you should see what needs to be going on before the system will go that far!

Ok So on May 3 he is back at home. The notion that something would be different is an unknown. You can see the escalating in the videos before the final one , in terms of words, but in terms of attending to his basic stuff (grooming etc) he would just not meet criteria to be held for months


ADLs are a huge component of long term placement is the indivudal demonstrating an ability to care for self and needs to give up his right to make choices. Here they are:

• Bathing: includes grooming activities such as shaving, and brushing teeth and hair
• Dressing: choosing appropriate garments and being able to dress and undress, having no trouble with buttons, zippers or other fasteners
• Eating: being able to feed oneself
• Transferring: being able to walk, or, if not ambulatory, being able to transfer oneself from bed to wheelchair and back
• Continence: being able to control one’s bowels and bladder, or manage one’s incontinence independently
• Toileting: being able to use the toilet

Instrumental Activities of Daily Living

The instrumental activities of daily living include the following:

• Using the telephone: being able to dial numbers, look up numbers, etc.
• Managing medications: taking the appropriate medications and correct dosages on time
• Preparing meals: making appropriate food choices and preparing meals safely
• Maintaining the home: doing or arranging for housekeeping and laundry
• Managing finances: budgeting, paying mortgage/rent and bills on time, etc.
• Shopping: being able to shop for groceries and other small necessities, and transport purchases from store to home
• Using transportation: being able to drive or use public transportation for appointments, shopping, etc.

http://www.seniorhomes.com/p/activities-of-daily-living/

As stated earlier by Salem, no mental health diagnosis has been verified. So, we can't speculate on mental health issues unless we are mental health professionals, who have been verified. Unless it is reported in MSM that ER was indeed mentally ill, then we will need to provide a link for that newly released info. HTH

 

[momrids6]

California Police Lacked Probable Cause To Confiscate Shooter Elliot Rodger's Handguns

“For an adult who doesn’t have a criminal record or a record of commitment for mental illness, there’s no reason he couldn’t get a handgun,”


"The authorities questioned Rodger on his doorstep. But according to Volokh, the founder of a popular legal blog, the Volokh Conspiracy, even had they entered and seen the handguns, they could not have confiscated them. "


http://www.ibtimes.com/california-p...scate-shooter-elliot-rodgers-handguns-1590687

 

[momrids6]

Anyone know anything about how much money is involved with the 3 guns and ammo?

DO they all use the same bullets, how fast fire, cost , bullet sizes etc>

he had "three semi automatic handguns--a Glock 34 and two Sig Sauer P226s-- as well as more than 400 rounds of ammo when he died."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/05/24/shooting-california-santa-barbara/9532405/


Let's just say a family could go on a decent vacation for a week including airfare for what this all cost. The Glock 34 - is a modified version- to make it legal in CA- they run about 650. Sig: 599

 

[LinasK]

Are you a mental health professional? If so, you need to be verified, or preface your posts with IMO, jmo, moo or even ime. Not being snarky, just how it is here.HTH

Activities of Daily Living are taught to patients who need help with them by Occupational Therapists. You don't need to work in mental health to qualify...

 

[CARIIS]

1. [FONT=&quot]Long-Term Residential: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Provides rehabilitation services for the chronically mentally ill who need long-term support and care for up to two to three years, in order to develop independent living skills. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]These treatment service programs are designed to serve adults who are in need of mental health treatment and are unable to care for themselves in an independent living situation, but can be cared for in a CRTS/SRP that provides psychiatric care in a normal home environment. [/FONT]

·[FONT=&quot] he problems for which the client was initially admitted to the CRTS/SRP are identified in the treatment/care plan; [/FONT]
· the care plan consists of a synthesis of the following assessments: (1) Health and psychiatric histories; (2) Psychosocial skills; (3) Social support skills; (4) Current psychological, educational, vocational and other functional limitations; (5) Medical needs, as reported; and, (6) Meal Planning, shopping and budgeting skills;


http://www.dhcs.ca.gov/services/MH/Pages/MentalHealthTreatmentProgramscertifiedbyDHCSare.aspx


Because he was so high functioning he would have trouble meeting criteria for even less intervention

[FONT=&quot]ommunity Autism Program (ACAP)[/FONT]​

*21 years or older
*Diagnosis of Autism Spectrum Disorder (Autistic Disorder, Childhood Disintegrative Disorder, PDD-NOS, Asperger Syndrome or Rett Disorder)
*Require Intermediate Care Facility (ICF) level of care
*Be able to live in a home or community setting without 16 hours or more per day of awake staffing and supervision
*Not have behaviors that are dangerous to yourself or others or that could cause harm to property
​

*Physician, ICF, psychiatric, nursing facility, hospice services
*Dental, vision, speech, podiatry, chiropractic services
*Medical supplies and equipment
*Health promotion and disease prevention services
*Targeted case management
*Mental health crisis intervention services
*Adult day habilitation services
*Homemaker services
*Residential & behavioral support
*Respite care
*Supported employment
*Community transition services
*Environmental modifications
*Assistive technology
*Family counseling​

[FONT=&quot]Adult Autism Waiver (AAW)[/FONT]​

*Age 21 or older
*Diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorder (Autistic Disorder, Childhood Disintegrative Disorder, PDD-NOS, Asperger Syndrome or Rett Disorder)
*Meet Intermediate Care Facility level of care
​

*Assistive technology
*Behavioral health services
*Community inclusion
*Community Transition Services
*Counseling
*Day & residential habilitation
*Environmental modifications
*Family counseling & training
*Job assessment and finding
*Nutritional consultation
*Occupational therapy
*Respite
*Speech/ language therapy
*Supported employment
*Supports coordination
*Temporary crisis services
*Transitional work services​

http://www.dpw.state.pa.us/foradults/healthcaremedicalassistance/longtermcareservices/

Actually in real life, long term placement is a fairy tale -- a myth from yesteryear.

So in terms of “outcome” in the big picture, until laws are changed, and funding altered, this shall go on and on and on IMO

 

[shana]

California Police Lacked Probable Cause To Confiscate Shooter Elliot Rodger's Handguns

“For an adult who doesn’t have a criminal record or a record of commitment for mental illness, there’s no reason he couldn’t get a handgun,”


"The authorities questioned Rodger on his doorstep. But according to Volokh, the founder of a popular legal blog, the Volokh Conspiracy, even had they entered and seen the handguns, they could not have confiscated them. "


http://www.ibtimes.com/california-p...scate-shooter-elliot-rodgers-handguns-1590687

My point altho it seems I've not articulated it so clearly is NOT about confiscating weapons or interfering with his right to own guns. It IS about a Red Flag.

jmo

 

[CARIIS]

Thanx I will correct that ! (the IMO) Yes, I am retired (HMOs; burned me out!) When the came on the whole thing went to hell - only about treatment plans on paper, getting authorizations in lumps of 3 (45 min each) I was good but if I could help people help themselves in 3 45 sessions! WOW I would be busy busy!!!

It being about the client got all lost in the money and paper trail - I shudder to think what it is now. I retired in 05 - don't even want to know (!) what they are doing these days.

But I supposed the headlines are giving us lots of data that as a society we are ignoring IMO

 

[momrids6]

My point altho it seems I've not articulated it so clearly is NOT about confiscating weapons or interfering with his right to own guns. It IS about a Red Flag.

jmo

You were talking about a man's re-election. His officers followed the law, red flag or no red flag. All the big red flags should have been seen long before the officers got involved, imo.

 

[Suthrnqt]

Activities of Daily Living are taught to patients who need help with them by Occupational Therapists. You don't need to work in mental health to qualify...

Sorry LinasK. I have already edited my post. I did not see the link CARIIS provided till after it posted. :blushing: It does help when one is posting info on the committal process to a MH facility to have a verified professional or at least state it is their opinion. That's all.