GUILTY CA - Forrest Hayes, 51, dies of heroin OD on yacht, Santa Cruz, 23 Nov 2013

[Jersey*Girl]

Is there a link to a legitimate news article that says she was adopted? As I recall, DaiyMail said some friend of hers from the private school in Maine said that but, I don't think she was adopted. She looks alot like her sister and her mother to me. I haven't seen a good picture of her father to compare.

I thought the same thing but how could they print that if it wasn't true?

http://news.kron4.com/news/video-fr...er-alix-tichelman-is-sweet-and-misunderstood/

SANTA CRUZ (KRON) — A woman who attended a military-style school for troubled youths with accused prostitute and killer Alix Tichelman says her friend is “misunderstood.”

KRON 4′s Maureen Kelly spoke with the friend of Tichelman who didn’t want to be named. The woman says Tichelman was adopted by a wealthy family in Folsom. Her adopted dad is also a CEO. The classmate says the adoptive parents misunderstood Tichelman. She says while Tichelman has a “dark aura”, the Alix she knew was sweet and loyal.

*** In the video at the link, the friend says the military boarding school they attended for troubled kids is in Maine. She also said Tichelman was a cutter like herself and also had an eating disorder.

 

[Ausgirl]

Does long term use show up on a MRI of the brain?

Yup. Here's an interesting study I found that correlates heroin use with rapid aging:

Based on a novel integration of peripheral molecular and brain system measures, the present study presents evidence that the long-term heroin abuse is associated with an acceleration of both cellular and brain system aging.

http://www.nature.com/tp/journal/v3/n5/full/tp201336a.html

Which might explain why many get that 'weathered' or 'harsh' look. There's quite a few studies online re heroin use and the brain, citing MRI use in the studies, interesting reading.

 

[Ausgirl]

Okay, here's my last word (I can't blame some for being glad about that! hehe) on the whole issue of looks - <modsnip>, "tattoos", the lot:

No-one can tell anyone else what to think, or what opinions to hold, what moral judgements to make. I just find it sad that that people might look at this girl as see her clothing and tattoos, even her harsh (drug user's) expressions - even her job - as some kind of indication that she *might* be a serial killer. It makes no sense to me at all, and kind of irks me (because I come from a similar 'lifestyle' kind of image and so do many of my dear friends, and we are all nice people - even the couple of hookers I know are really nice people). Is my entire point, relevant to this case. The end.

Sorry if I got up anyone's nose, trying to make that point. I'm just .. more tolerant, by default.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Okay, here's my last word (I can't blame some for being glad about that! hehe) on the whole issue of looks - "", "tattoos", the lot:

No-one can tell anyone else what to think, or what opinions to hold, what moral judgements to make. I just find it sad that that people might look at this girl as see her clothing and tattoos, even her harsh (drug user's) expressions - even her job - as some kind of indication that she *might* be a serial killer. It makes no sense to me at all, and kind of irks me (because I come from a similar 'lifestyle' kind of image and so do many of my dear friends, and we are all nice people - even the couple of hookers I know are really nice people). Is my entire point, relevant to this case. The end.

Sorry if I got up anyone's nose, trying to make that point. I'm just .. more tolerant, by default.

I agree. I wasn't making a connection between her looks and her alleged crime. That said, if I was casting a role...for a female serial killer, she would be perfect. IMO

I was simply making a comment of the image she deliberately IMO was projecting. She looks like exactly what she is....a junkie prostitute.

It's IMO a real shame because physically she certainly had potential to be very pretty....pretty in the way *I* define it.
I realize beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I also don't believe she's a serial killer.

IMO


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[Linda7NJ]

Okay, here's my last word (I can't blame some for being glad about that! hehe) on the whole issue of looks - "", "tattoos", the lot:

No-one can tell anyone else what to think, or what opinions to hold, what moral judgements to make. I just find it sad that that people might look at this girl as see her clothing and tattoos, even her harsh (drug user's) expressions - even her job - as some kind of indication that she *might* be a serial killer. It makes no sense to me at all, and kind of irks me (because I come from a similar 'lifestyle' kind of image and so do many of my dear friends, and we are all nice people - even the couple of hookers I know are really nice people). Is my entire point, relevant to this case. The end.

Sorry if I got up anyone's nose, trying to make that point. I'm just .. more tolerant, by default.

Just wanted to add...I have nothing against <modsnip> prostitutes. I don't think they're intellectually deficient or murderers. I believe they're damaged. I have sympathy for them.


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[Ausgirl]

Linda :hug:

I think we come from two very different worlds! But I am very glad we can agree on some things.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

So she did try to prop him up. If she had called 911, she'd have been arrested. No? Prostitution, drugs, assuming she was operating a motor vehicle upon leaving would be another charge, etc etc etc. Is it possible she was so high she couldn't reason well, therefore got out of Dodge ASAP? Heroin dulls the senses, so the authority's take on calmly walking away could be from the effects of heroin. Is that possible?

http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/...f-googles-forrest-hayes-linked-to-2nd-death-3

Police say surveillance video from the Google executive's yacht shows Tichelman's next deadly encounter with heroin in California, on Nov. 23.

Santa Cruz Deputy Police Chief Steve Clark gives the following account from the video:

Tichelman prepares the heroin to a liquid and injects it into Hayes' arm. Shortly after, Hayes clutches his chest, near his heart. Tichelman tries to prop him up, but he then loses consciousness.

Tichelman then starts picking up her belongings, including the needle, and cleans up a counter while stepping over Hayes several times. During that time, Tichelman calmly drinks a glass of wine and surveys the scene.

Tichelman then goes outside the cabin of the boat on the dock, looks back inside, then pulls down a window blind, closes a door and leaves.

"Never does she call 911 or call out to others in nearby boats for help. She never tries to administer any aid to him," Clark said. "She is more concerned about getting herself out and concealing evidence than helping Mr. Hayes."

Clark said that investigators learned that Tichelman later did online searches "on how to defend herself after giving a lethal dose of heroin."

Investigators also learned that Tichelman planned to leave California late last month, possibly to Georgia and maybe even the country, Clark said.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Interesting article on how heroin kills...

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/04/health/how-heroin-kills/index.html

 

[inquisitivecat]

The issue on brain damage may hint more on how and why she acted as she did scientifically explained. If heroin does brain damage and she did a great deal of heroin over the years she maybe just functioning in a dream state. No morality, friends and family issues played a role at all, these issues are complex and addiction is very simple - I need heroin. Just a robot, crazy but not out to intentionally murder. They should order an MRI and see if there are big pieces missing, or anything left at all.

Is there any recent video of her talking in the last year or two to see how she functions with speech and thought. Has her sister or others said much about her recently?

 

[time]

So she did try to prop him up. If she had called 911, she'd have been arrested. No? Prostitution, drugs, assuming she was operating a motor vehicle upon leaving would be another charge, etc etc etc. Is it possible she was so high she couldn't reason well, therefore got out of Dodge ASAP? Heroin dulls the senses, so the authority's take on calmly walking away could be from the effects of heroin. Is that possible?

http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/...f-googles-forrest-hayes-linked-to-2nd-death-3

I think that is entirely possible.... but she saved her own skin nonetheless. Perhaps he could have been saved if she called 911. Look at it this way, she could have left the boat and at least tried to make an anonymous 911 call. We don't know, I think it's also possible she gave him an overdose or the heroin wasn't pure (?). At any rate, at least she is stopped from a life that seemed to be on a downward spiral.

 

[SophieRose]

Weird, I guess it was when she went to the sting operation that she had the needle pre-loaded.

Someone asked why would he hire a hooker and take heroin. Wonder if she had some reputation for providing drugs to clients and that's actually why she was getting paid $1000 (again, I think that was the sting operation, not sure what the yacht guy paid her?). ODK. I have it in my head she is more of a drug pusher with the added benefit of being a sexy woman administering it than a high priced hooker who just happens to bring heroin along. LE must know a lot more about all this.



http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/14/the-black-widow-of-silicon-valley.html

Uhm, yeah, like maybe heroin. Is there any way they would know this was his first time? Even so, maybe he arranged to meet her again on the promise of some hard drugs and fast times. Still think this is part of her MO and he's sort of a scum in my eyes with 5 kids at home. I'm not buying the sympathy for the stressed out executive just veering the wrong way.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-alix-tichelman-google-exec-drugs-20140718-story.html

Even Santa Cruz police Deputy Chief Steve Clark has said he does not believe Tichelman intended to kill Hayes, adding that administering heroin was likely “part of her routine.”

 

[time]

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-alix-tichelman-google-exec-drugs-20140718-story.html

Even Santa Cruz police Deputy Chief Steve Clark has said he does not believe Tichelman intended to kill Hayes, adding that administering heroin was likely &#8220;part of her routine.&#8221;

Well, I can certainly believe that, it does seem to be her MO to me and sooner or later someone is going to die or at least the chances are high ... I do hope he is basing that on an autopsy though and whatever else? Seems a bit early to make that claim, but maybe not.

 

[Ausgirl]

Maybe he's dug up other clients with whom she's shared drugs, and so established that drugs were part of her service. Or something.

 

[inquisitivecat]

Given she is a heroin addict then every action she does in one way or another is to insure she has heroin. Heroin is her personalilty once an addict and to stay alive it needs heroin so it is a matter of live or death to have it. I believe getting heroin is her first concern always. Intending to murder is doubtful, it makes getting heroin much harder. Serial killer, very remote but makes for lots of attention. Serial killers do not want to get caught.

She has her brain pumped full of toxins so I would not read too much into the human side as it is mostly random neurons being fired in a state like that. This all assumes she is a severe addict and long term user.

 

[inquisitivecat]

I think more detailed information on the heroin dosage would help with what was normal for addicts to do when using heroin and the dosage. They say he was injected with a lethal dose but that says nothing. He died and that is what this is all about, of course it was lethal but how much. Was the dosage normal and he just reacted badly and died? Did he have heroin earlier and that is why it was so high in his blood, she just added more. Any other medications in his body?

How poor is the purity of heroin most users take? How much depends on how they administer it as to the final blood level?

Experts in this field to explain what was found and what is common for heroin users to do would tell if this was normal (typical) or not for addicts.

She has been doing this for years. Go back and find a few (or a few thousand) of her clients from the past and maybe see if she always follows the same procedure and dosage. She may change doses just at random and this would be her normal. If this can be done and she did nothing different this time I see no intent to kill. If she changed this one time then that is a red flag. If she does this same thing for years administering heroin to hundreds and only one dies that might be a very low death rate. She still killed him though if she gave him illegal drugs, maybe not with intent. She needs to be locked up no matter what at least for a while.

 

[LambChop]

Name calling is against TOS. And please do not quote and get into a discussion with those who have.

Lambchop

 

[Ausgirl]

i wasn't name calling! i was protesting it~

but yup, sorry :heart:

 

[Deleted member 96356]

Maybe he had ingested other substance(s) - or more heroin - beforehand, so the dose she administered was compounded. Meaning, maybe she gave him a reasonable amount assuming there was nothing else in his bloodstream. Or maybe his ticker just gave in. Everyone's body has a tipping point.

But killing someone during an illegal act is a crime, accidental or not, and the charge of manslaughter sounds right to me.

My sympathy for her so-called "victim" is nil. My sympathy is with his children, who will grow up without a father and whose memory of him will be tarnished thanks to his selfish choices.

 

[Ausgirl]

Yeah, at this point, I just keep thinking of his children.

 

[SophieRose]

Larry Biggam is Alix's attorney. His firm is the number one public defending firm in that county, which is huge & full of money. Public defender in alot of states sometimes coincides with learning attorneys, not alot of experience, etc. Well not this firm. They're good, more specifically Biggam is good. I wouldn't be surprised at all if she gets off on everything or a mere slap on her hands.

At her first hearing, she had a county public defender, I wonder if her parents are paying for this guy (they and her sister were at her arraignment last week, did not attend first court appearance.)

When I think of money, Santa Cruz would hardly be the first city or county that I think of as moneyed. While there are definitely people with money who live there, when I think of a coastal town I think of Carmel more as classy and moneyed. And as far as where the Silicon Valley rich live, they are more likely to live closer in towns like Woodside, Atherton, Los Altos Hills, Hillsborough. Santa Cruz has a large "hippie" counterculture population (started migrating down in the 1960s from San Francisco), lots of people don't like that.

I was surprised that it only took him 40 minutes in traffic to get from Santa Cruz to Mountain View as one has to travel "over the hill" on Highway 17 which is twisty and winding. Of course I don't travel it everyday so even in normal traffic it would probably take me at least that long. And I don't think there's a carpool lane on 17, so he bought that car for once he gets to 280 or 101.

I was also wondering what luxury hotel the undercover agents met her at, as there aren't too many of those in Santa Cruz. I know of one that might be considered luxury, been there forever, but I can't think of others, I haven't been there in a while and maybe there's something new there.

I remember reading years ago that Paul Newman's daughter Nell lives in Santa Cruz.