CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #2

[Mony Mony]

Re the Trooper at the border..... I sincerely believe CM purposely parked the Trooper there hoping it would get stolen and taken across the border never to be seen again. Just IMO. Locals knows by parking down there, you are taking a chance of it being stolen.

 

[Mony Mony]

Is it known who the toy seller was?

 

[missy1974]

IIRC the ex-wife and stepfather had threatened to make a complaint against the McStays as well and they were very worried about that. So that's why I question whether Summer would have driven the boys anywhere without car seats unless it was an emergency or something.

IMO I don't think Summer was the type to care. She was raising her boys the way she wanted to and she didn't want to hear advice or criticism from anyone, and if she did hear it, she wasn't happy about it. Summer strikes me as the type that would welcome CPS into her home and dare them to tell her how to raise her children... but JMO lol

I do recall what you are saying though, I am just unsure if that was all rumour or if there is some truth to it and we actually have proof or not now that we are this stage. I don't think we do. It's so hard to separate the truth and rumour's in this case, especially for any one that followed before they found them because there were so many theories. Again, JMO

 

[missy1974]

Re the Trooper at the border..... I sincerely believe CM purposely parked the Trooper there hoping it would get stolen and taken across the border never to be seen again. Just IMO. Locals knows by parking down there, you are taking a chance of it being stolen.

When reading posts earlier, the thought crossed my mind that he could have left it there to also give the impression that the "killer or killers" took it there and went over the border, not the family.

 

[Force Ten]

I get what you're saying and thought about that too (Summer just took them without the carseats) but I then thought, would she take that risk with already having a strike against her and with the current possible CPS issues looming over them? I mean it's definitely possible but then I wonder if it could have caused some trouble for her if she had been caught.

Does anyone recall whether any of the items that Summer supposedly bought at Ross on the 4th were found, and if so, where were they found?

It's not as if CPS files are available to a traffic cop. The most she would get if pulled over is a ticket.

Iirc the Ross items were 4 dvd's, a baby's outfit, beach towels and something else.

 

[Force Ten]

No they do not have to prove where it happened.

The state has three element requirements they must prove.

1. They must prove who the victims are. (DNA or other methods)

2. They must prove that all four victims died from homicide. (ME examination)

3. They must prove BARD CM...the accused is the murderer of all 4 victims.

That's it.

They never are burdened with proving where it happened...what happened..when it happened or even why it happened.

That is why motive never has to be proven for really only the suspect knows the true motive.

However the state is allowed to put forth their theory to the jury based on witness testimony/submitted evidence.

They also can put forth what they believe the motive was for the murders even though it is not a legal requirement for any prosecutor to do so.

Hope this helps some. During jury instructions the judge will layout the legal requirements and what doesnt have to be proven.

The jury is allowed to have their own theories as to where..what..how and why it happened. They do not have to all agree.

They must only agree unanimously that CM is either guilty or not guilty of course. If not it will be a hung jury.

Remember missing person...murder cases really have none of this known yet they are successfully won very routinely now proving CE carries a lot of legal weight with juries.

Jmo

Well you confirmed what I was thinking. I guess the defense's strategy is attempting to prove that the State's narrative is flawed, so the rest of it must be as well. I don't think it will be effective though, the family was still obviously murdered. There is so much else and we are just starting to get to the meat of the case. I feel that the defense has some major challenges ahead of them, more so than the DA.

 

[Texas Red]

I went and grabbed a snip of the cheque that the defense put up on the screen at the end of testimony today.

The image shown is the carbon duplicate of a check originating from a business size check writing ledger book. Was there an explanation given as to why it’s not a Quickbooks’ check?

 

[Plumeria5]

What is everyone's opinion of Gray Hughes videos/theories? Today was the first time I had watched any of them. If you haven't watched he feels they were all killed at home during the 7 pm hour, transported in his truck and the following day stored in the storage unit nearby then heading to Santa Clarita to look for a place to bury them. That would mean their bodies would have been in the back of his truck overnight?

 

[asyousay]

What is everyone's opinion of Gray Hughes videos/theories? Today was the first time I had watched any of them. If you haven't watched he feels they were all killed at home during the 7 pm hour, transported in his truck and the following day stored in the storage unit nearby then heading to Santa Clarita to look for a place to bury them. That would mean their bodies would have been in the back of his truck overnight?

I have not watched the video but I don’t see how the bodies could of been left in the truck over night as you would get blood evidence. Plus 4 dead bodies left for 12 + hours surely they would start to smell as when you die don’t you release toxins?


imo

 

[Force Ten]

I have not watched the video but I don’t see how the bodies could of been left in the truck over night as you would get blood evidence. Plus 4 dead bodies left for 12 + hours surely they would start to smell as when you die don’t you release toxins?


imo

I agree, it's not a plausible theory.

 

[missy1974]

The image shown is the carbon duplicate of a check originating from a business size check writing ledger book. Was there an explanation given as to why it’s not a Quickbooks’ check?

I am not sure Texas. I did notice that the cheque number was 1116. Other cheques written around that time had a different sequence of numbers, starting with 4. I am wondering if this was the other account that Joey had, not the one that he mainly used for just the business.

I really can't wait to hear all of this information, from both sides.

 

[Texas Red]

I am not sure Texas. I did notice that the cheque number was 1116. Other cheques written around that time had a different sequence of numbers, starting with 4. I am wondering if this was the other account that Joey had, not the one that he mainly used for just the business.

I really can't wait to hear all of this information, from both sides.

"not the one that he mainly used for just the business"
The check is imprinted with his business name. Is it your understanding that he had a separate business account that was used as a personal expense account?

 

[missy1974]

"not the one that he mainly used for just the business"
The check is imprinted with his business name. Is it your understanding that he had a separate business account that was used as a personal expense account?

Yes, I had posted the info a few days ago from the preliminary hearing. I have just gone back and found it again, along with some additional info about what kind of account it was, according to this testimony, Joey's account was only an online account, which I know we have discussed as well.

7 Q Did you also have contact with Intuit and individuals
8 familiar with how those records are kept?
9 A Yes, I did.
10 Q Did they tell you those records are kept and maintained
11 in the ordinary course of their business?
12 A Yes.
13 Q How is that kept? Is that kept online somewhere?
14 A It was an online QuickBooks account. It was stored by
15 QuickBooks.
16 Q Were the entries or whatever happened on that QuickBooks
17 account where they were stored, created at or near the time that
18 they were performed?
19 A Yes, that's correct.
20 Q Okay. What did you learn in your investigation about the
21 QuickBooks accounts belonging to Earth Inspired Products?
22 A I learned that Joseph had two separate QuickBooks online
23 accounts, with two separate e-mail addresses.
24 Q And how were those divided up, if you know?
25 A The first QuickBooks account was created in September of
26 2004, associated with an e-mail of Contact at Earth Inspired
27 Products.com.
28 And there was a second account created in 2008 with an
101
1 e-mail associated of Custom at Earth Inspired Products.com.

....

15 Q Okay. With regard to both of those accounts, both the
16 Contact and the Custom account, how were those divvied up in the
17 business? Was there two sides to the business, two separate
18 businesses? Or do you know?
19 A Yes, there was. The original account, the Contact
20 account that was created in 2004, had a mixture of Joseph's
21 personal finances as well as his business finances.
22 The Custom account was strictly business, but he was not
23 writing checks from that account.


State of California VS Charles Ray Merritt: Part Four - Transcript of Charles Merritt Preliminary

Go read the info at that link @Texas Red. I can't copy it all, but also can't really make sense of it all lol The 2 accounts are referred to as the Contact account and the Custom account.

 

[missy1974]

I have another question or questions lol

Chase got a $200 cheque from Joey and used it to open an account at the Bank of America. It doesn't seem to be disputed that it was Joey that physically wrote out that cheque (not printed) on the 2nd, it was used to open the account at BoA on the 3rd.

Why did Chase have to open a new bank account? Was his usual one overdrawn? Was there some other issue with it?

It seems like odd timing... but yet the $200 cheque seems legit, and maybe Joey even knew that it was being used to open an account at a new bank... is it possible that Chase was having issues with his bank (probably self inflicted lol) and Joey actually gave him some cheques to use if he needed them? I would really like to think that Joey was not that naive though.

 

[Force Ten]

I have another question or questions lol

Chase got a $200 cheque from Joey and used it to open an account at the Bank of America. It doesn't seem to be disputed that it was Joey that physically wrote out that cheque (not printed) on the 2nd, it was used to open the account at BoA on the 3rd.

Why did Chase have to open a new bank account? Was his usual one overdrawn? Was there some other issue with it?

It seems like odd timing... but yet the $200 cheque seems legit, and maybe Joey even knew that it was being used to open an account at a new bank... is it possible that Chase was having issues with his bank (probably self inflicted lol) and Joey actually gave him some cheques to use if he needed them? I would really like to think that Joey was not that naive though.

My guess would be to hide money from CJ.

 

[asyousay]

I have another question or questions lol

Chase got a $200 cheque from Joey and used it to open an account at the Bank of America. It doesn't seem to be disputed that it was Joey that physically wrote out that cheque (not printed) on the 2nd, it was used to open the account at BoA on the 3rd.

Why did Chase have to open a new bank account? Was his usual one overdrawn? Was there some other issue with it?

It seems like odd timing... but yet the $200 cheque seems legit, and maybe Joey even knew that it was being used to open an account at a new bank... is it possible that Chase was having issues with his bank (probably self inflicted lol) and Joey actually gave him some cheques to use if he needed them? I would really like to think that Joey was not that naive though.

Are banks different in American in how you open a account as here banks as far as I am aware do a credit check when opening a new account ?

So if he was over drawn or had issues with not paying bills then the bank would know.

 

[Texas Red]

Yes, I had posted the info a few days ago from the preliminary hearing. I have just gone back and found it again, along with some additional info about what kind of account it was, according to this testimony, Joey's account was only an online account, which I know we have discussed as well.

7 Q Did you also have contact with Intuit and individuals
8 familiar with how those records are kept?
9 A Yes, I did.
10 Q Did they tell you those records are kept and maintained
11 in the ordinary course of their business?
12 A Yes.
13 Q How is that kept? Is that kept online somewhere?
14 A It was an online QuickBooks account. It was stored by
15 QuickBooks.
16 Q Were the entries or whatever happened on that QuickBooks
17 account where they were stored, created at or near the time that
18 they were performed?
19 A Yes, that's correct.
20 Q Okay. What did you learn in your investigation about the
21 QuickBooks accounts belonging to Earth Inspired Products?
22 A I learned that Joseph had two separate QuickBooks online
23 accounts, with two separate e-mail addresses.
24 Q And how were those divided up, if you know?
25 A The first QuickBooks account was created in September of
26 2004, associated with an e-mail of Contact at Earth Inspired
27 Products.com.
28 And there was a second account created in 2008 with an
101
1 e-mail associated of Custom at Earth Inspired Products.com.

....

15 Q Okay. With regard to both of those accounts, both the
16 Contact and the Custom account, how were those divvied up in the
17 business? Was there two sides to the business, two separate
18 businesses? Or do you know?
19 A Yes, there was. The original account, the Contact
20 account that was created in 2004, had a mixture of Joseph's
21 personal finances as well as his business finances.
22 The Custom account was strictly business, but he was not
23 writing checks from that account.


State of California VS Charles Ray Merritt: Part Four - Transcript of Charles Merritt Preliminary

Go read the info at that link @Texas Red. I can't copy it all, but also can't really make sense of it all lol The 2 accounts are referred to as the Contact account and the Custom account.

None of the referenced testimony reconciles with an old hand written type of check as represented in the photo. I would imagine that the jury is about as confused about all these differant checks and accounts as I am.

 

[Texas Red]

I have another question or questions lol

Chase got a $200 cheque from Joey and used it to open an account at the Bank of America. It doesn't seem to be disputed that it was Joey that physically wrote out that cheque (not printed) on the 2nd, it was used to open the account at BoA on the 3rd.

Why did Chase have to open a new bank account? Was his usual one overdrawn? Was there some other issue with it?

It seems like odd timing... but yet the $200 cheque seems legit, and maybe Joey even knew that it was being used to open an account at a new bank... is it possible that Chase was having issues with his bank (probably self inflicted lol) and Joey actually gave him some cheques to use if he needed them? I would really like to think that Joey was not that naive though.

Good question, I certainly don't know and I kind of doubt if anyone else does.

 

[missy1974]

My guess would be to hide money from CJ.

hmm that's interesting. I don't know much about her, what makes you think he would do that? To gamble? or did she have her own issues?

 

[missy1974]

Are banks different in American in how you open a account as here banks as far as I am aware do a credit check when opening a new account ?

So if he was over drawn or had issues with not paying bills then the bank would know.

I'm Canadian lol So I'm not sure what they do there. I don't know if they do here. Only if you are requesting an over-draft or other services. For just a bank account, I don't know, it's been a long time since I opened one.