CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #2

[Force Ten]

Summer had mentioned there were problems with CM to MM, but I think the defense objected to anything DK said that was only "hearsay". DK DID get in that CM WAS around alot at the home (per convo with Summer on phone) by what he actually saw himself, and Summer didn't like CM by how CM and Summer avoided each other while he was there.

I believe Summer knew that CM had stolen from the company and JM was going to fire him that day...........CM had to kill her so JM's death wouldn't point back at him and the kids were collateral damage: they knew him, and they were with Summer (and JM if you believe that theory).

To clarify, with "MM" do you mean Mcgyver? MM has always been Michael Mcstay here. How does "DK" (Dan Kavanaugh) fit in here?

 

[Paulette]

I have not watched the video but I don’t see how the bodies could of been left in the truck over night as you would get blood evidence. Plus 4 dead bodies left for 12 + hours surely they would start to smell as when you die don’t you release toxins?


imo

I've always thought that he didn't take his truck to Fallbrook because it might be recorded on cctv or a neighbor might remember seeing it at the house. He had access to other cars and may have borrowed one from his numerous relatives that live in the area.

 

[asyousay]

Why does the trial take a break on Fridays?

The judge is semi retired so he doesn’t work Fridays.

 

[Tortoise]

Yep, and now they have 4 days to think about that check, and really, all I got from that testimony is that the guy didn't like Merritt, maybe didn't trust him (locking doors, etc., not allowing him in the building without someone with him)... BUT, he didn't say that Merritt owed him money or paid him, he made it pretty clear that it was Joey that paid the invoices, sometimes in an envelope, delivered by Merritt. So implying that Merritt stole money previously that should have gone to Metro sheet Metal... I don't understand how that happened... Joey didn't pay Merritt to pay them... Joey made checks out to them from EIP. I guess we will have to wait to see, but unless the pro's can prove that a check was cashed somewhere by Merritt that was made out to Metro Sheet Metal... fraudulently... I dunno...

My take on it was that the judge instructed the jury (after one of the defense objections) that this testimony was not offered to prove that Joey gave Merritt a cheque for Metro and Merritt misappropriated it or didn't pass it along, it was to 'prove' that this is what Metro believed the situation to be and that's why they (or the owner - his father) argued with Merritt.

Start at 21.09 in the video

 

[Tortoise]

Back of Business Card:



A few screenshots of the cheques and carbon copy cheques and business card found in the Trooper (in the pocket behind the front passenger seat) as taken from trial day 8, part 1, Denys Williams' testimony

 

[Tortoise]

Check Book, top check #1119

 

[Tortoise]

Carbon copy checks made out to Charles Merritt

#1104 Dec 15th $1250
#1110 Dec 30th $2700
#1111 Jan 12th $1300
#1114 Jan 25th $500
#1115 Jan 28th $350
#1117 Feb 2nd $100

 

[Niner]

Why does the trial take a break on Fridays?

This is always the case in trials in California. It gives the Judges time to work on their other cases that they are handling from what I have heard.

 

[Tortoise]

All carbon copy checks in order: (excluding checks to Charles Merritt copied in post above)

#1103 Metro Sheet Metal Dec 15th $755
#1104 Charles Merritt Dec 15th $1250
#1105 Lloyd K Dec 17th $50
#1106 Metro Sheet Metal Dec 18th $1475
#1107 Metro Sheet Metal Dec 23rd $1475
#1108 Adagio Dec 22nd $1451
#1109 Massage E Dec 29th $74
#1110 Charles Merritt Dec 30th $2700
#1111 Charles Merritt Jan 12th $1300
#1112 Metro Sheet Metal Jan 15th $1012
#1113 Lloyd K Jan 19th $150
#1114 Charles Merritt Jan 25th $500
#1115 Charles Merritt Jan 28th $350
#1116 Metro Sheet Metal Feb 1st $6350
#1117 Charles Merritt Feb 2nd $100
#1118 Accents Feb 2nd $5250

 

[Tortoise]

I think what we have to keep in mind with this witness on the stand - Joe Sequeida - is that Charles Merritt is not on trial for theft. Whether he stole money owed to Metro is not at issue. It's what Metro thought he did and it's also about what Joey McStay might have said to Metro about him. That goes to motive for the murders. The defense will be out to try and prove or show that Metro didn't believe they were being shafted by Merritt, I'm sure. So they'll be going after his credibility, which is a bit dumb, but predictable, they only have straws to grasp at.

 

[asyousay]

I think what we have to keep in mind with this witness on the stand - Joe Sequeida - is that Charles Merritt is not on trial for theft. Whether he stole money owed to Metro is not at issue. It's what Metro thought he did and it's also about what Joey McStay might have said to Metro about him. That goes to motive for the murders. The defense will be out to try and prove or show that Metro didn't believe they were being shafted by Merritt, I'm sure. So they'll be going after his credibility, which is a bit dumb, but predictable, they only have straws to grasp at.

The problem is they can’t prove that Joey McStay did say those things as it’s hearsay and if Joey McStay was bad mouthing his employee to clients then why would he of continue to hire him as he was obviously damaging his business?!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Self deleted

 

[Tssiemer]

What is everyone's opinion of Gray Hughes videos/theories? Today was the first time I had watched any of them. If you haven't watched he feels they were all killed at home during the 7 pm hour, transported in his truck and the following day stored in the storage unit nearby then heading to Santa Clarita to look for a place to bury them. That would mean their bodies would have been in the back of his truck overnight?

Love his videos!!

 

[Tortoise]

The problem is they can’t prove that Joey McStay did say those things as it’s hearsay and if Joey McStay was bad mouthing his employee to clients then why would he of continue to hire him as he was obviously damaging his business?!

It's not hearsay - his testimony was of first hand knowledge. The jury can decide if they believe the witness or not.

Metro isn't a client, it was working with McStay and Merritt to manufacture the water features. I think it was all coming to a head in early February and possibly Joey wouldn't have continued the partnership.

 

[asyousay]

edited!!

 

[Tortoise]

comment replied to deleted

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It's not hearsay - his testimony was of first hand knowledge. The jury can decide if they believe the witness or not.

Metro isn't a client, it was working with McStay and Merritt to manufacture the water features. I think it was all coming to a head in early February and possibly Joey wouldn't have continued the partnership.

True.

Plus there are many exceptions to the hearsay rule.

 

[SherlockKittyCat]

Wow, I can't believe after all these years, we're finally at the trial! This case brought me to Websleuths. All the speculations, we had so many. I had a bad feeling about CM, but ultimately I thought it was a stranger, and their bodies were in Bonsall. I remember the moment the bodies were found, and I wanted to scream. It was heartbreaking and heartlifting at the same time because there was definite proof that they didn't go to Mexico. At first, I thought *maybe* Mexico, to get to Costa Rica perhaps, but that was only a hope for them to be alive. Watching with interest, and glad for the updates here! Thank you, Websleuthers!

 

[medea13]

How on earth could he know the cops would think the family had gone to Mexico?

That was down to the cops being idiots not down to Chase having some master plan. He even debunked them going to Mexico himself and so did the family.

sorry if this has already been posted but i swear there was a video taken from a camera near the border that 'showed' a family of four that looked similar to the victims walking into mexico around the same time the car was parked there? i believe it was dark outside and the camera only showed the 4 from the back but it caused people to think maybe they went across the border

 

[oceanblueeyes]

This is always the case in trials in California. It gives the Judges time to work on their other cases that they are handling from what I have heard.

Hi Niner..my very informative friend.

Here is my own opinion on CA trials. Jmo though.

I still find it quite odd how little time is really spent during CA trials.

There are countless judges all over the country who have jampacked schedules but in almost all states other than CA the judges expects the attorneys to actually work long hour full days.

Most judges run a tight ship especially when it comes to making sure time is not being wasted. When they say there will be a 15 minute break they make it clear to everyone they better be ready to go after 15 minutes....not 16 minutes. They do not take many of those either.

One of our best friends is Superior Court judge who has been on the bench for over 35 years and has presided over many murder trials by jury.

I asked him his opinion on CA trials and the way they are handled so differently than almost any other state. He said he could only comment on how it's done in most states.

He said it is very important to keep any trial moving at a fluid pace. If it doesn't happen it stalls other cases behind it that are set for trial.

He said first and foremost... all officers of the court (both state and defense attorneys along with presiding judge) are always mindful they are asking jurors to take valuable time away from their own duties and daily lives.

It's not cost effective to have so much wasted downtime either in the long run.

He also said dragging any trial out when unnecessary causes backlogs. If he has other matters to attend to he does that before or after the trial day has ended.

So it has never made any sense to me why CA trials are infamously known to take much longer than necessary to complete trials.

It is one of the main factors I dislike when wanting to follow a CA trial to completion. There seems to be no reasonable timeline ever for it to be over.

At first it was said this trial would last 4 months now the tentative timeline has already stretched into 6 months. Imo that is shameful and so unfair to the jurors. Its hurry up and be there and then wait and wait and wait.

By week 5 by having a dark day every week they have wasted an entire full week of testimony that could have been heard by the sitting jurors advancing the trial much further along

During the laboriously long trial of CM I am sure we will have other trials happening here and if so they will be held and fully completed before Merritt's case is even close to completion.

Some of those cases could also include mass murder victims with the death penalty on the table like this one yet the defendant in those other cases will have both phases completed if the defendant is found guilty before this one is over.

In the past we have seen and discussed those cases when the trial was happening. Brutal mass murder cases just like this one in CA and none that I can recall took 6 months to complete and that is only a guesstimate for how long the guilt phase will last.

Fgs should he be found guilty it's no telling how long the sentencing phase will last.

With these defense attorneys we still may be here in late fall!

I truly do want to follow this case to its completion but I'm not sure I can knowing how so much unnecessary valuable time is being wasted.

Jmoo