CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #3

[Tortoise]

I think the prosecution’s dwelling upon this evidence creates speculation and hurts their case. As Furiously_Following, has pointed out, it’s not really conclusive of anything, and even if it was, it doesn’t implicate CM. IMO, they should move on to the financials which can be linked directly to CM, and is quite incriminating. Them spending so much time on something that’s not conclusive makes the prosecution’s case look like it’s nothing more than smoke and mirrors, grasping at straws because they really don’t have a case.

I think the prosecution thinks the bleach is important because if the whole house was bleached down it explains them not finding Merritt's DNA at the scene.

Same as the paint on the bra and the sledgehammer being tied to him painting over the walls.

It's a piece of the jigsaw to suggest the murders happened at the house and the crime scene was cleaned because they know they've got him at the house with the cheque printed.

Maybe they're worried that without a crime scene at the house the family could have been out and abducted by a carjacker while he was at the house only to steal a cheque. They don't want to risk the jury not being able to link the crime to the house. IMO.

 

[Force Ten]

I then to agree

I wonder if the murderer has not displayed his guilty knowledge in plain sight here.

He got very agitated and schooled his Attorneys on what "really happened".

But why should he be so excited over this point? I get why it may matter but why this of all things?

Is it because he knows precisely what happened and this is his chance to get one over the State?

I'm dying to see this exchange with Merritt and the attorneys because I missed it yesterday. I wonder, was the camera already on him or did it pan over with this incident? Granted, as some have pointed out, this may not have been the first time he's reacted as so. I'm really curious if the jury picks up on this sort of thing. I know when I was a juror I would pay attention to the defendant. The last one I was on the defendant was 100% emotionless up until the moment we declared him guilty of molestation. Merritt is sort of an animated character though and maybe his ego is coming through.

 

[Edmo]

New thread, new observation: CM seemed to squirm/nervous today when SBSO Crime Scene Analyst Redelle?sp? seemed to find keys and bleach stains during excavation.

I have not listened to the 2nd day of the interview yet, so I may have to come back and amend this answer...

At the beginning of the interview, when he was just talking to the female detective (Fisk?), he says something about Summer that I couldn't hear, but I did hear Fisk say 'you are not the first person to say that about her'. The shopping thing, I am not sure if that is what you are considering vindictiveness, but if there is truth to it, which we might find out later or not, then I don't know if it's vindictive? Now, what surprised me about some of the things he said about her was... they asked about domestic violence, he said Joey on her, no way... Fisk asks what about her (Summer) against him (Joey)... he says she was only verbal, but no, no. This is where he goes on about corporal punishment and the discussion he had with Summer...he says she is extremely verbal, but not physical and doesn't think she ever would be (based on the discussion they had). They ask about Jonah and how Summer was with him, he says that she loves Johah to death.

Is there more in the second part of the interview from yesterday?

Before this interview, we have heard testimony from Mikey that they had a falling out. We heard from McGyver, who said he got a tongue lashing for going to his wife's baby ultrasound instead of going to help her paint. IMO the jury already knew before this interview that Summer was verbal and was not always that easy to get along with.

I guess I only find it vindictive if it's not true. I am not sure if these things are not true yet though.

Who is Jonah? thanks

 

[missy1974]

Another thing I went and looked at were the old Equusearch video's. First, the video just missed a shot of the front door where the stains were! I am not sure it would have been good enough quality to see anyway.

Second, after listening to some of DuGal's testimony again, and looking at those video's, I came to a realization... things that I thought I knew about this case because of what we learned early on, were just not the case!

Here are just a few things that I learned after watching the Equusearch video's, keep in mind, these were done in March 2010...

In the video, Mike says the camera is gone from the pantry. I recall this from early on as an indication that maybe they took it when they "left". In testimony, we learned that LE collected that on the 19th.

In the video, all the beds are stripped. I recall seeing the photo's during testimony and even commenting that I had always thought the beds had been stripped and there were no sheets on the beds. Who stripped the beds and why?

In the video, there are comments about no clothes being there and how strange it was. We can see from the photo's of the house on the 19th that LE took, that is just not true, but where did they go at that point? I thought they didn't clean and do all the laundry until May when they were going to lose the house.

There were other little things, but these are just the one's I recall off the top of my head. It really did make me think that we knew nothing early on, so much was misrepresented.

 

[missy1974]

New thread, new observation: CM seemed to squirm/nervous today when SBSO Crime Scene Analyst Redelle?sp? seemed to find keys and bleach stains during excavation.


Who is Jonah? thanks

Joey's oldest son from his previous marriage.

 

[missy1974]

I'm dying to see this exchange with Merritt and the attorneys because I missed it yesterday. I wonder, was the camera already on him or did it pan over with this incident? Granted, as some have pointed out, this may not have been the first time he's reacted as so. I'm really curious if the jury picks up on this sort of thing. I know when I was a juror I would pay attention to the defendant. The last one I was on the defendant was 100% emotionless up until the moment we declared him guilty of molestation. Merritt is sort of an animated character though and maybe his ego is coming through.

I want to watch it again too. I was listening but not really keeping my eye on the feed. They don't have that video uploaded yet, I imagine it will be up sometime today.

 

[fridaybaker]

I believe when the forensic examiner expert testifies for the state he/she will say the lighter stains found on Summer's sweatpants are consistent with bleach and not from urine.

Then of course the defense will hire a hired gun to say the opposite like it usually happens.

Many who die do not pass urine or feces afterwards. Neither my father nor mother did and I was there both times when they passed away and remained with them for a long time afterwards.

There are so many variables and none are consistent one way or the other when it comes to releasing or not releasing. It's as individual as the individuals themseves.

I do not believe urine would bleach out the pants like shown.

If urine it would quickly dry out. With the urine no longer wet and active the possibilty of bleaching to this degree would no longer exist.

But we all know bleach instantly bleaches whatever fabric it touches.

I think with all the women on this jury they will come to their own determination they are seeing a garment that has bleach on it.

Jmo

Really agree with everything said here. The prosecution should debunk the "it's urine" line resoundingly. It's not urine: It's bleach.

 

[Edmo]

I think the prosecution’s dwelling upon this evidence creates speculation and hurts their case. As Furiously_Following, has pointed out, it’s not really conclusive of anything, and even if it was, it doesn’t implicate CM. IMO, they should move on to the financials which can be linked directly to CM, and is quite incriminating. Them spending so much time on something that’s not conclusive makes the prosecution’s case look like it’s nothing more than smoke and mirrors, grasping at straws because they really don’t have a case.

It looks bad now because that is what we are all talking about (stains/material), due to the court closing for the day. I hope they tested EVERYTHING they found that came from gravesites and surrounding area. If so, we will have to wait to see what was tested/results by whomever (qualified experts) did the actual testing/results and their on-record testimonies. I don't think the CSA tested anything, her job was to document/collect the evidence, IMO. That is why she couldn't give a definite answer to the stains contents.

IMO, there is a reason why the Pros asked her the specific questions about the stains. I believe they will be able to tell us EXACTLY what they are and how it ties into the murders. They usually never ask a question that they already know the answer to.

Stay tuned folks. The Coroner will also be amazing testimony as well.

 

[fridaybaker]

While I was waiting for the video's to be uploaded, I went back to some other testimony to find some things that have been discussed the last few days:

@mrjitty I think it was yesterday that we were discussing Joey's voicemails and whether they had been deleted, and also whether the information was requested by DuGal.

starts around 19:46

there is a date that's stated but there's also indicators of specifically on Joseph's phone 'hey I just saw the news you're missing what's going on' well if that's the message that indicates that that's from February 15th on that was the second message every other message on Joseph's cell phone kind of related to the business and that time frame from the 15th on because there's multiple people who said something about your missing and the only way they know they're missing from news reports is once I was involved

21:14 of same video

Joseph's cell phone messages were missing. The messages from the time frame prior to February 15 were missing,somehow they were deleted.

cross about voicemails starts at 10:48 of this video:

Joey had 25 voicemails. The mailbox was full.

@ 17:15 DuGal states, I believe there was some, there was a block of messages deleted that should've been there from the dates you're talking about, from Feb 4-15th

@ 20:43 did you ask t-mobile since they gave you the access code, when and if those voicemails were deleted? Dugal: No. Maline: why? Dugal: I don't know.

I was looking for information about the towels but haven't come across that yet. I still do not believe all the towels were missing in the house.

This is why I HATE watching trials: In the embeded video of the prosecution examining the detective here, he asks some specific questions about the cell phone messages: "...did you ask t-mobile since they gave you the access code, when and if those voicemails were deleted?" And the detective simply says "No", then when asked why, "I don't know".

HUH? A man is on trial for his life, with four people brutally murdered (and probably tortured) and he doesn't give any context? No, "Since there was no evidence of a crime scene at the house, that's not something I thought I needed to delve into right then". Or: "I could see a timeline well enough from the messages/lack of messages themselves, so I didn't feel the need to follow up with T-Mobile". Something. Simply "I don't know" sounds dumb. Stupid. Incompetent. I can't stand it.

 

[Edmo]

I'm dying to see this exchange with Merritt and the attorneys because I missed it yesterday. I wonder, was the camera already on him or did it pan over with this incident? Granted, as some have pointed out, this may not have been the first time he's reacted as so. I'm really curious if the jury picks up on this sort of thing. I know when I was a juror I would pay attention to the defendant. The last one I was on the defendant was 100% emotionless up until the moment we declared him guilty of molestation. Merritt is sort of an animated character though and maybe his ego is coming through.

The camera was on him.

I'm re-watching the Prosecution Opening Statement and around the 58:00 minute mark (Quickbook phone call CM pretending to be JM is what the Pros is talking about), CM realizes the camera is on him from the front and he literally freezes until they start to pan away.

 

[asyousay]

If it’s bleach does that mean Summer was left dead in the house while he cleaned up the crime scene?

I can’t imagine why he would pour bleach on her when alive.

 

[Edmo]

Watching CNN's Who Murdered The McStay Family Documentary (Youtube) and lo and behold, CM interview portion he immediately blamed Summer for poisoning JM. Talk about deflection, sheeshola!

CM on Chik-Fil-A meeting: We met because business was "booming!" He told the SDSO Inv's he was having financial issues because of the business "slowdown." He can't keep his lies straight if he wanted to.

One good luck instance: The Isuzu being found and impounded 4 days later. Imagine if it was never discovered, or someone stealing it? (DNA etc)

The Equusearch: I believe Mike was truly trying anything he could to find them. He was also genuinely upset when they were found.

CNN investigated/vouched for DK's time in Hawaii.

CNN: (Quote) "Answers could come from this barren desert. Were the keys to unlocking this mystery could be buried in the sand?" Do they know something we haven't fully heard yet; the KEYS?

One other tidbit out of Patrick McStays mouth: He wondered what the MS family was thinking driving down the dirt road that night. He must have believed they were alive and killed at or near the gravesite?

 

[Force Ten]

Watching the end of Dr. Gray's (she's brilliant) testimony and the questioning regarding Summer's jaw. She said there was no antemortem (healing of the bone) which means she died soon after or the damage was done postmortem. To me it seems they discussed it to indicate overkill. I was a bit surprised that she wasn't asked if any of her other bones, or other victims bones, showed signs of antemortem. Or did I miss it?

Again, more needless questioning by defense. Mcgee asking about which side Joseph was laying on. How does this have any bearing at all for his client's innocence??

 

[Tortoise]

Watching the end of Dr. Gray's (she's brilliant) testimony and the questioning regarding Summer's jaw. She said there was no antemortem (healing of the bone) which means she died soon after or the damage was done postmortem. To me it seems they discussed it to indicate overkill. I was a bit surprised that she wasn't asked if any of her other bones, or other victims bones, showed signs of antemortem. Or did I miss it?

Again, more needless questioning by defense. Mcgee asking about which side Joseph was laying on. How does this have any bearing at all for his client's innocence??

No she discusses other bones too, I recall from posts here at the time. I haven't watched it yet though.

 

[Edmo]

Does anyone know if CM owned any firearms?

 

[Force Ten]

No she discusses other bones too, I recall from posts here at the time. I haven't watched it yet though.

But I think she only discusses in detail what antemortem is and how it's determined if present at the end with Summer's jawbone.

 

[Tortoise]

But I think she only discusses in detail what antemortem is and how it's determined if present at the end with Summer's jawbone.

She discusses Joseph's broken rib here starting at 33.47

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I shouldn't really comment on this yet because I've only listened to a tiny part of the interview at this time, so I will go off the small clip they played during the opening speech, where he was telling them how many times Summer would say 'stop it' to the boys. Boy, IMO, you could hear the nastiness in his voice, and just that part lets me know that she really got under his skin. He comes across as a petty nasty mean gossip with a chip on his shoulder, and I think he is jealous, because he has a need to take from people and demean people.

What he was saying about Summer from someone who was detached from it could have been expressed as 'she doesn't discipline her kids' or 'I don't think she would harm her kids/family because I've never seen her get riled up when the boys are testing her patience'.

If I contrast that with McGyver, he told it how it was with the ability to laugh about it. That's detachment.

I think anyone, male or female, should be able to detect CM's animosity. I'm not sure if you mean do we think women will be unable to judge the evidence impartially because they are women and may have prejudices?

Oh no, I didnt mean they would have any prejudices at all. I should have written my question much clearer, and I'm sorry if its caused any confusion.

Each one of the jurors are sitting in judgement every day of trial. That's their job to weigh the evidence as it comes in.

Perhaps I shouldn't have used the word 'vindictiveness' either although I do think he was very vengeful against Summer.

Maybe I should have said the petty childish way he made it so personal when he criticized her when after all she was the wife of his 'best friend' and the mother of Joey's two boys. The add on about Summer he interjected were irrelevant as to what may have happened to them. Imo

I do think he was resentful that they had what he did not have.

What I was trying to say about the women on the jury is I wonder what they thought as they heard his interview from way back then knowing they are now sitting in judgement of that very same man who is accused of murdering them all.

While I'm sure men can also weigh what he said, I find females much better astute listeners most of the time. I feel they may have picked up more on what he said.

To the male jurors it may sound more like typical complaining done by some men even though it's usually them talking about their female partners than someone else's wife.

That's all I meant.

Imo

 

[Edmo]

I learned of Steph Watts from the CNN documentary and he is an investigative reporter, also was present during the Equusearch Team. He also has a website and I read a post today from him where he stated that during one of Sheriff McMahon's press conference, the Sheriff said they had found "evidence" of CM being present at/in the gravesites. I know CM's cellphone "ping" record has been stated to place him there, but *if* I read his post correctly, it appeared to sound that they also found something else (guessing here: property/DNA) INSIDE the gravesites. SW also stated that he believes the MS were killed in their walk-in closet in the Master bedroom. SW then quotes a New York detective stating they can find blood spatter, DNA many years after a crime has been committed, including being painted over.

I Youtubed CM's arrest PC and a SBSO Inv also said they were killed inside of their home. He was VERY confident about that. IMO, SBSO must've found some kind of evidence inside the home as well. I also learned today that CM had already served 2 separate prison sentences, prior to meeting JM.

One last thing; I believe it was Summer's Sister (From CNN Doc I posted earlier) that tried to warn JM about CM and doing any kind of business with him. She also said Summer didn't like him as well.

I don't know how to post links in the forum, otherwise I would have added the sites/links of what I am babbling about.

I originally thought they were killed somewhere else, from DuGal stating the home did not appear to be the crime scene. After the presser and reading SW stuff, I believe we WILL know where the murders took place.

 

[missy1974]

This is why I HATE watching trials: In the embeded video of the prosecution examining the detective here, he asks some specific questions about the cell phone messages: "...did you ask t-mobile since they gave you the access code, when and if those voicemails were deleted?" And the detective simply says "No", then when asked why, "I don't know".

HUH? A man is on trial for his life, with four people brutally murdered (and probably tortured) and he doesn't give any context? No, "Since there was no evidence of a crime scene at the house, that's not something I thought I needed to delve into right then". Or: "I could see a timeline well enough from the messages/lack of messages themselves, so I didn't feel the need to follow up with T-Mobile". Something. Simply "I don't know" sounds dumb. Stupid. Incompetent. I can't stand it.

BBM above - that was the defense asking him those questions. The prosecution on direct made a point of having DuGal say that there was no messages from Merritt on Joey's voicemail. IMO they shouldn't have made that point knowing that there was a block of messages that were obviously not there. Surely they knew that, right? Geesh, I hope they did