CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #3

[Tortoise]

Where is the Pros going with 2 different measurements (tire tracks) 73" vs 76" ? Is the front/rear wider than each other?

I think they are saying it's the wet ground conditions that could make the variance.

 

[Plumeria5]

I believe the Def is saying that the 73" is outside of tire to outside of tire even the part not touching the ground. What I think is that in the mud the entire tire would have touched because it would have sunk down and the 73" tire tread at the gravesite would match.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The bra and sledgehammer were from the original paint source. That places those items in the home, which was being painted at the time. I believe the Pros goal was to place those items at the crime scene, IMO.

Yes the main takeaway from this testimony is the paint on the bra and the sledgehammer are the same.

The paint on both items were wet at the time they made contact.

That's why I always say I dont believe in coincidences in murder cases. Lol

I have a 3 lbs. short handled sledgehammer similiar to the purposed murder weapon found in the grave.

I use mine to gently tap around the top of paint cans when I put the lids back on to seal them.

I've had mine for probably 15 years or more. Mine has never gotten any paint on it when I'm tapping the paint lid down.

So for me finding the same paint on the sledgehammer and the same paint on her bra to be highly significant evidence showing where the murders happened.

Imo

 

[mrjitty]

The truck being shown is what we call a "box/Mechanic" truck. I'm guessing it is a 1 ton in weight, unloaded. If you fill those toolboxes up with tools/materials (4 bodies too), you can double the weight of the truck. It makes sense to me now why they were buried just a mile or so inside of the desert. That truck would be difficult to drive through soft sand without having to worry about it getting buried/stuck in the sandy river/wash area they were found in.

Exactly!

I think the defence without invoking any 4WD experience comment too blithely on driving out into the desert, at night, in loose sand, and apparently wet conditions.

Super easy to get axle down. No one who knows the conditions will risk this

Now normally - if one chooses to do so - this is no issue because you travel in pairs, precisely so you can drag out a stuck vehicle. We also carried a hand winch for this purpose, not to mention shovels and blocks etc. But you absolutely cannot start onboarding a lot of risk if you are on your own with dead bodies on board. Have fun digging out your truck on your own with no driver.

When I was home a few years ago, we 4WDed up a river valley on christmas day, and stopped at a flooded river which being on our own, we did not dare to ford.

Within mins, a jeep came hurtling towards us on the other side. The driver then walked over the river to us. Poor bugger had been stuck up there for 2 days waiting for a 4WD to appear. He was only game to attempt the crossing with another 4WD with winch on the other side to haul him out if it all went south (it was touch and go)

Point is, no experienced off road driver puts their truck into the unknown without backup.

IMO driving way out into the desert with dead bodies on board was just a silly and pointless risk and CM was well aware of that.

As it is - it seems he almost dug right in

 

[Edmo]

But in the mud the truck would have sunk down and the tire tread would have been wider.

I believe it had been raining the 4th/5th of Feb 2010. From my experience of off-roading in this EXACT desert area, we LOVED it when it rained. The sand/rock composition of the Victor Valley Desert would compact (harden) when it rained, rather than getting muddy. That meant MORE "grip" was available and it was easier to get traction in the sand.

One reason for possibly having a wider tire track could be due the weight of the truck. The heavier it weighed, the more "pressure" was placed on the tires. It is also a known fact that people lower their tires air pressures while traveling in sand to help "cover" more area, access more grip by lowering the tire pressure. JMO

 

[katydid23]

Cathy Russon‏ @cathyrusson 1m1 minute ago
#McStay - Cross exam of Det. Smith. McGee: You didn't think it was relevant to test the key in the victim's pocket to the Isuzu Trooper? Smith: Because it was abundantly clear they didn't drive themselves to the desert, bury themselves, then drive vehicle back to the border.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I think they are saying it's the wet ground conditions that could make the variance.

Also how much air pressure he had in his tires.

If the air pressure in his tires were lower than specified it would make the tires widen out.

 

[katydid23]

Cathy Russon‏ @cathyrusson 37s37 seconds ago
#McStay - McGee: Isn't is reasonable to look at, did Joseph drive that car to San Diego? Smith: "I'm not sure what you're trying to get at. " Smith also adds it was clear the key in the pocket was a copy.

 

[mrjitty]

View attachment 166500 Merritt's truck screengrabs - click to enlarge

View attachment 166496 View attachment 166497 View attachment 166498

This is not a vehicle you really want to take offroad

 

[mrjitty]

Where is the Pros going with 2 different measurements (tire tracks) 73" vs 76" ? Is the front/rear wider than each other?

Same truck in wet conditions

 

[katydid23]

@cathyrusson 21s22 seconds ago
#McStay - McGee asks the detective if he eliminated the idea that they drove the car to San Ysido and they were taken there and deposited in the desert? Smith says that was the investigation since they were 'missing people'.

 

[mrjitty]

Also how much air pressure he had in his tires.

If the air pressure in his tires were lower than specified it would make the tires widen out.

Yes - also weight in the truck

 

[katydid23]

kitkat2409: Cathy Russon‏ @cathyrusson 20s20 seconds ago
#McStay - Smith: It was them in them in the video (border video) McGee: How do you know it wasn't them?

 

[katydid23]

Cathy Russon‏ @cathyrusson 22s22 seconds ago
#McStay - McGee: Do you know if the McStay family was put in the ground in Victorville before and not after Feb 8th? Smith: Based on the totality of the evidence I would say yes

 

[katydid23]

Cathy Russon‏ @cathyrusson 15s16 seconds ago
#McStay - McGee: When's the last time you know that the family had any contact with anyone? Smith: When Mr. McStay spoke with Mr. Merritt Smith said it was the evening of the 4th.

 

[mrjitty]

Yes the main takeaway from this testimony is the paint on the bra and the sledgehammer are the same.

The paint on both items were wet at the time they made contact.

That's why I always say I dont believe in coincidences in murder cases. Lol

I have a 3 lbs. short handled sledgehammer similiar to the purposed murder weapon found in the grave.

I use mine to gently tap around the top of paint cans when I put the lids back on to seal them.

OK - I have to ask sorry. Why don't you use a normal hammer? I tend to use the back of a screwdriver or block of wood

I've had mine for probably 15 years or more. Mine has never gotten any paint on it when I'm tapping the paint lid down.

So for me finding the same paint on the sledgehammer and the same paint on her bra to be highly significant evidence showing where the murders happened.

Imo

Exactly - this is almost conclusive IMO

If they weren't killed at the house, how did wet paint get on the hammer?

 

[katydid23]

Cathy Russon‏ @cathyrusson 3s4 seconds ago
#McStay - McGee: You learned that Mr. Kavanaugh sold the company? Smith: Yes McGee: Did you ever instruct anyone to question him about the sell of the business? Smith: No

 

[katydid23]

Cathy Russon‏ @cathyrusson 26s26 seconds ago
#McStay - McGee: Were you aware that Mr. McStay was complaining.....Objection...sustained

 

[mrjitty]

The different track widths prove two different grave runs IMO

It can't be that he just pulled out to find better ground

For me this is a curiosity of the case. Why make 2 runs?

 

[katydid23]

Cathy Russon‏ @cathyrusson 24s24 seconds ago
#McStay - McGee: Did you subpoena Mr. Kavanaugh's bank records? Smith: No McGee: Did you follow up on a financial motive that Kavanaugh may have had? Smith: We followed up on Kavanaugh and determined that he was in Hawaii