CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #5

[Mica]

There was something mentioned at the end of testimony on Thursday about that and handed over to the defense from JP Morgan Chase bank and something else, I couldn't understand what the judge was saying. It's at the very end of testimony though. Maybe someone else can pick up where the other was from.

Good catch missy! Maybe M Vac Systems?

There is such a company...

The core of the technology is the M-Vac. It is a wet-vacuum DNA collection tool. It is sterile, hand-held and disposable. It performs the collection process on the evidence surface.

https://www.m-vac.com/products/overview

 

[cobalt sky]

Joey was growing up from being an entrepreneur to actually being more strategic with his business.

If you read the email Joey sent to his webhost about the DK relationship, he explains quite clearly that he wants to de-risk as he has kids to look after and big responsibilities. He intends to lower risk by taking far more control. This is why he is ending his partnership with DK (though continuing to work with him).

IMO he simply reached the same conclusion with CM whether or not he sacked him that day.

The partnership was over. CM was either out, or would be treated strictly as a vendor. As Joey controlled the sales pipe, and the $$ he had all the leverage.

Either way, given the insight the web host email offers into Joey's thinking, I believe it is non-sensical that Joey was about to allow this kind of obvious theft to continue when it could kill his business.

Hmm...maybe. But I read the email that Joey sent to his webhost a bit differently. Joey wasn't calling the shots, Dan was. Dan basically threatened him to "buy him out" or he would pull his website and start his own. It appears that Dan considered himself a partner in the business, but Joey did not. Or if he did, not an equal partner. It doesn't appear that Dan had any actual legal claim to the business.

Which is why I can't understand why, after being threatened by Dan, why Joey would continue to work with him in any form, including having him involved in the website after being bought out. Actually, iirc Dan is the only one who claims that Joey planned to continue working with him after the buyout. So imagine...according to Dan, he works for years helping build EIP, to then be cut out just when the alleged multi-million dollar deals start coming in. I wonder how Dan felt about that.

And the reality is that what Dan was doing for EIP wasn't really that difficult. The website was mediocre at best, even Dan admitted that in the text string. So I can't understand why Joey would have felt it necessary to pay Dan TENS of thousands of dollars...for what exactly?!?...to buy him out. For what, a mediocre website? Wouldn't Joey's tens of thousands have been better spent hiring an actual professional website builder/SEO and cutting Dan out of the business completely? Does it make sense that he would spend tens of thousands to buy him out (again, for what exactly?) only to allow him to continue to have access and control over the website that he just spent tens of thousands to buy him out from? Joey was mortgaged up to his eyeballs, driving 10-year-old vehicles, had a family of 4 to support and another child he was paying support to, he had multiple home renovation projects going on that aren't cheap, Summer was buying used toys and things for the home on Craigslist and shopping at discount stores... and Joey then agrees to pay Dan tens of thousands for basically nothing? No wonder Summer wanted anger pills!

These are the things that make me wonder. Maybe they have nothing to do with the case. Maybe they do. All imo.

 

[Tortoise]

Hmm...maybe. But I read the email that Joey sent to his webhost a bit differently. Joey wasn't calling the shots, Dan was. Dan basically threatened him to "buy him out" or he would pull his website and start his own. It appears that Dan considered himself a partner in the business, but Joey did not. Or if he did, not an equal partner. It doesn't appear that Dan had any actual legal claim to the business.

Which is why I can't understand why, after being threatened by Dan, why Joey would continue to work with him in any form, including having him involved in the website after being bought out. Actually, iirc Dan is the only one who claims that Joey planned to continue working with him after the buyout. So imagine...according to Dan, he works for years helping build EIP, to then be cut out just when the alleged multi-million dollar deals start coming in. I wonder how Dan felt about that.

And the reality is that what Dan was doing for EIP wasn't really that difficult. The website was mediocre at best, even Dan admitted that in the text string. So I can't understand why Joey would have felt it necessary to pay Dan TENS of thousands of dollars...for what exactly?!?...to buy him out. For what, a mediocre website? Wouldn't Joey's tens of thousands have been better spent hiring an actual professional website builder/SEO and cutting Dan out of the business completely? Does it make sense that he would spend tens of thousands to buy him out (again, for what exactly?) only to allow him to continue to have access and control over the website that he just spent tens of thousands to buy him out from? Joey was mortgaged up to his eyeballs, driving 10-year-old vehicles, had a family of 4 to support and another child he was paying support to, he had multiple home renovation projects going on that aren't cheap, Summer was buying used toys and things for the home on Craigslist and shopping at discount stores... and Joey then agrees to pay Dan tens of thousands for basically nothing? No wonder Summer wanted anger pills!

These are the things that make me wonder. Maybe they have nothing to do with the case. Maybe they do. All imo.

BBM Actually Chase told the detectives that's what Joey was planning to do -

here's a small snippet from his interview

I knew um that Joseph was almost, had almost paid him off and I think he was paying him $50,000 for his part of the business, I think that was the number - I’m not ev.. not even sure about that, but I know that he only had $2,000 left, to pay. And Joseph was going to then own Earth Inspired Products and just pay him to run the website, instead of them being partners.

 

[missy1974]

Good catch missy! Maybe M Vac Systems?

There is such a company...

The core of the technology is the M-Vac. It is a wet-vacuum DNA collection tool. It is sterile, hand-held and disposable. It performs the collection process on the evidence surface.

https://www.m-vac.com/products/overview

could be? I think it was the defense that actually used that and found the DNA in the grave site that doesn't match CM or the McStay's... but what would they need to subpoena? Maybe foundational stuff... like how it works, etc.?

 

[missy1974]

Hmm...maybe. But I read the email that Joey sent to his webhost a bit differently. Joey wasn't calling the shots, Dan was. Dan basically threatened him to "buy him out" or he would pull his website and start his own. It appears that Dan considered himself a partner in the business, but Joey did not. Or if he did, not an equal partner. It doesn't appear that Dan had any actual legal claim to the business.

Which is why I can't understand why, after being threatened by Dan, why Joey would continue to work with him in any form, including having him involved in the website after being bought out. Actually, iirc Dan is the only one who claims that Joey planned to continue working with him after the buyout. So imagine...according to Dan, he works for years helping build EIP, to then be cut out just when the alleged multi-million dollar deals start coming in. I wonder how Dan felt about that.

And the reality is that what Dan was doing for EIP wasn't really that difficult. The website was mediocre at best, even Dan admitted that in the text string. So I can't understand why Joey would have felt it necessary to pay Dan TENS of thousands of dollars...for what exactly?!?...to buy him out. For what, a mediocre website? Wouldn't Joey's tens of thousands have been better spent hiring an actual professional website builder/SEO and cutting Dan out of the business completely? Does it make sense that he would spend tens of thousands to buy him out (again, for what exactly?) only to allow him to continue to have access and control over the website that he just spent tens of thousands to buy him out from? Joey was mortgaged up to his eyeballs, driving 10-year-old vehicles, had a family of 4 to support and another child he was paying support to, he had multiple home renovation projects going on that aren't cheap, Summer was buying used toys and things for the home on Craigslist and shopping at discount stores... and Joey then agrees to pay Dan tens of thousands for basically nothing? No wonder Summer wanted anger pills!

These are the things that make me wonder. Maybe they have nothing to do with the case. Maybe they do. All imo.

It's because of the things like you have posted @cobalt sky that I am trying to reserve my judgement until later lol Everything "appears" to point to Chase, but things are not always as they seem. I don't even think I will be sure by the time the prosecution is done.

 

[JMarsh]

I, probably like a few others on this thread, would REALLY like to see what evidence you have that may support a "hitman" possibility. Connect the dots for us, circumstantial or otherwise. Feel free to link MSM or court transcripts. Your posts and responses compel me to believe that you know something we don't know.
Please share, you could break this case wide open. None of us we want to see an innocent man wrongfully convicted and you appear to know something no one has been able to un-earth in this 9 year old case.
I would REALLY like to see what you have as far as a hitman, or any other viable suspect. Break it down for us.

If the possibility is being opened up to cartel killings, what about the possibility that this was simply a thrill kill? There isn't any real indication that the family was involved in drugs in a manner that would really put them in contact with any but the most low-level dealer. But what if someone who wanted to kill, for the sake of killing, pretended to be someone they weren't. Maybe someone advertising on Craigslist, or even presenting themselves at a contractor.

 

[Edmo]

BBM Actually Chase told the detectives that's what Joey was planning to do -

here's a small snippet from his interview

I knew um that Joseph was almost, had almost paid him off and I think he was paying him $50,000 for his part of the business, I think that was the number - I’m not ev.. not even sure about that, but I know that he only had $2,000 left, to pay. And Joseph was going to then own Earth Inspired Products and just pay him to run the website, instead of them being partners.

If this is actually true, to me, JM shared his finances/debts with CM. It would go to show JM's honesty in dealing with those who worked with/for him, IMO.

 

[cobalt sky]

BBM Actually Chase told the detectives that's what Joey was planning to do -

here's a small snippet from his interview

I knew um that Joseph was almost, had almost paid him off and I think he was paying him $50,000 for his part of the business, I think that was the number - I’m not ev.. not even sure about that, but I know that he only had $2,000 left, to pay. And Joseph was going to then own Earth Inspired Products and just pay him to run the website, instead of them being partners.

Thanks Tortoise, did that come from Joseph or Dan or a little of both I wonder? Regardless, it's still crazy to think Joey was going to pay Dan that much money to someone who wasn't a legal partner in the first place, only to again put himself in such a vulnerable position by allowing him to continue to run the website! How did he know that Dan wouldn't just continue to shake him down once the "buyout" was complete?

 

[Edmo]

could be? I think it was the defense that actually used that and found the DNA in the grave site that doesn't match CM or the McStay's... but what would they need to subpoena? Maybe foundational stuff... like how it works, etc.?

IF what I read today is true, the DNA that the defense points to NOT being CM in the gravesites, but belonging to people who had "contact" with say, the "Futon Cover," or other items (paint tape etc) doesn't mean the DNA was from the murderer, if that makes sense? Someone who possibly had contact with the cover/items found in the graves and their DNA was left on it means they simply had left their DNA cells on it from their home? I know, it DEFINITELY is a mystery to us all.

 

[missy1974]

If this is actually true, to me, JM shared his finances/debts with CM. It would go to show JM's honesty in dealing with those who worked with/for him, IMO.

I also think of the other side of that coin and realize that maybe, just maybe, Joey did give Chase his credit cards to use when needed, and maybe, just maybe, they did have some sort of deal worked out that Joey paid the vendors and it came out of Chase's cut.

It doesn't explain the cheque's... and I know the defense is saying that Joey knew, Joey gave him the cheques, and even access to QB's and asked him to change it, unless they have something in writing, I don't know how they think they can prove that.

 

[JMarsh]

Just playing with ideas here. Working with the defenses theory that the family was actually abducted/killed in the morning, what about this next?:

In looking over the phone records (and with the internet IP addresses now available to look at a little) it would appear that Joey McStay turned his phone completely off for periods of time.

(I'm guessing if you work for yourself the only way to get time-off is to literally turn off your connection to your work.)

The phone log for Joseph that was on-line has him starting his phone/work-day any time between 8 and 11 in the morning. If that week of the 1st had been a hard one-Chase and Summer at each other, Summer anxious because the painting is behind schedule-could it be that the morning of the 5th, things are as they appear? That the family did suddenly decide to get out of the house. They put clothes and shoes on that were not found in the grave. Left the home in a hurry because the kids were running amuck-and it was just too much. Both Summer and Joey keep their phones off, because this is family time and they figure an hour at the park would tire the boys and allow Summer to get some painting done later. Maybe Joey wanted to get Joseph Jr.s gift from one of the pods (explaining the pod keys in his pocket), he drops Summer off at the park with the boys, drives to the pods, gets that little house toy out and hides it under a blanket in the back, then returns to get Summer and the kids----and maybe there was one more stop, somewhere, and the family runs into a horror.

Maybe Summer's bra had paint on it from another day, and she just throws a shirt over it to go out quickly. Maybe the killers were never in the McStay residence.

 

[missy1974]

Thanks Tortoise, did that come from Joseph or Dan or a little of both I wonder? Regardless, it's still crazy to think Joey was going to pay Dan that much money to someone who wasn't a legal partner in the first place, only to again put himself in such a vulnerable position by allowing him to continue to run the website! How did he know that Dan wouldn't just continue to shake him down once the "buyout" was complete?

Good point... by the 17th when that interview took place, had Chase already talked to Dan? or Mike and Susan talked to Dan and relayed that info? Had Mike already found information on the computer about the 'buy-out' to Dan?

 

[JMarsh]

Probably NOT. When the 3 strikes law came about, there was a bit of confusion. From my experience, most criminals didn't know the in's or out's of it, just as many don't know if "spousal privilege" is a National law vs, State by State.

Though the three strikes law might be a consideration, it really depends on how many felonies Chase had. That law does not apply to charges reduced to a misdemeanor. Also, what actual evidence is there of theft?

 

[JMarsh]

Would HE know that, though?

Has to be felonies.

 

[JMarsh]

Maybe we shouldn't rule out Kevin Spacey, El Chapo, Krusty the Clown. They're all bad guys. So many possibilities.

The evidence brought Chase Merritt to court and the judge found it sufficient enough for Merritt to go to trial. And here we are.

Yes but there was evidence held back from the judge. Like the fact that Chase visited with Carmen Garcia the morning of Feb.8-putting a wrench in the theory that Chase, all by himself, drove the Trooper to the border and got back to the Corona area to ping at 1:32. And there are some questions as to whether investigators interpreted the digital evidence accurately.

 

[missy1974]

Though the three strikes law might be a consideration, it really depends on how many felonies Chase had. That law does not apply to charges reduced to a misdemeanor. Also, what actual evidence is there of theft?

1st and 2nd strikes didn't apply to any felony though, they were specific felonies. The 3rd strike (before the law changed), was any felony. If he had a lawyer or a probation officer, he should have known if it was a strike offense or not, it would have been in the paperwork. I will say JMO, but I did a boatload of reading last week LOL I was reading about everyone assuming he was on his 3rd strike here and in the L&C chat... I couldn't believe that the media and/or the prosecution wasn't mentioning it at all over all these years.

 

[JMarsh]

1st and 2nd strikes didn't apply to any felony though, they were specific felonies. The 3rd strike (before the law changed), was any felony. If he had a lawyer or a probation officer, he should have known if it was a strike offense or not, it would have been in the paperwork. I will say JMO, but I did a boatload of reading last week LOL I was reading about everyone assuming he was on his 3rd strike here and in the L&C chat... I couldn't believe that the media and/or the prosecution wasn't mentioning it at all over all these years.

California’s Three Strikes Sentencing Law - criminal_justice

 

[JMarsh]

1st and 2nd strikes didn't apply to any felony though, they were specific felonies. The 3rd strike (before the law changed), was any felony. If he had a lawyer or a probation officer, he should have known if it was a strike offense or not, it would have been in the paperwork. I will say JMO, but I did a boatload of reading last week LOL I was reading about everyone assuming he was on his 3rd strike here and in the L&C chat... I couldn't believe that the media and/or the prosecution wasn't mentioning it at all over all these years.

I don't think Chase was eligible for the three strike's law, but even if he was, where is the evidence of theft?

 

[Edmo]

Just playing with ideas here. Working with the defenses theory that the family was actually abducted/killed in the morning, what about this next?:

In looking over the phone records (and with the internet IP addresses now available to look at a little) it would appear that Joey McStay turned his phone completely off for periods of time.

(I'm guessing if you work for yourself the only way to get time-off is to literally turn off your connection to your work.)

The phone log for Joseph that was on-line has him starting his phone/work-day any time between 8 and 11 in the morning. If that week of the 1st had been a hard one-Chase and Summer at each other, Summer anxious because the painting is behind schedule-could it be that the morning of the 5th, things are as they appear? That the family did suddenly decide to get out of the house. They put clothes and shoes on that were not found in the grave. Left the home in a hurry because the kids were running amuck-and it was just too much. Both Summer and Joey keep their phones off, because this is family time and they figure an hour at the park would tire the boys and allow Summer to get some painting done later. Maybe Joey wanted to get Joseph Jr.s gift from one of the pods (explaining the pod keys in his pocket), he drops Summer off at the park with the boys, drives to the pods, gets that little house toy out and hides it under a blanket in the back, then returns to get Summer and the kids----and maybe there was one more stop, somewhere, and the family runs into a horror.

Maybe Summer's bra had paint on it from another day, and she just throws a shirt over it to go out quickly. Maybe the killers were never in the McStay residence.

The "paint" drop on Summer's Bra: 1) It was dried by the time she was buried. 2) It was raining during the time of the murders. 3) The paint MUST have dried prior to her being moved/buried, otherwise moving her would cause the paint to smear, IMO. 4) We KNOW, from testimony, that she was either painting in her bra while laying down, or she was laying on her side/incapacitated during a "clean up," IMO

 

[cobalt sky]

If the possibility is being opened up to cartel killings, what about the possibility that this was simply a thrill kill? There isn't any real indication that the family was involved in drugs in a manner that would really put them in contact with any but the most low-level dealer. But what if someone who wanted to kill, for the sake of killing, pretended to be someone they weren't. Maybe someone advertising on Craigslist, or even presenting themselves at a contractor.

You mean like Israel Keyes? That was discussed a lot here. I honestly don't think it was a thrill killer, mostly because the family was found buried in Victorville. I mean, what are the odds that a random thrill killer would drive the family all the way up there? IMO the killer buried the family in Victorville because it was familiar to them (Chase, if he did it) or because someone wanted everyone to think that Chase did it.