CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #5

[cobalt sky]

oh my, he does say that! Thanks cobalt sky and @Mica ! it's at about 2:30 or so of this video... which I hate to admit I have never listened to before now! I had read the article, but not listened to the audio. He's a little punk lol

Dan Kavanaugh interview - Nov. 26, 2013

Oh Missy you must watch the whole thing lol, listen to how he describes the business situation after the McStays went missing.

 

[JMarsh]

RBBM. Was he deleting the transactions to hide them from Joey, or was he hiding them from Dan at Joey's request? I know it's reaching but the defense might claim this so it's something to think about.

Here's an addendum question to that. If Chase killed Joseph and wrote the checks knowing he was dead, why delete the checks at all? LE would know the checks had been written if they looked at Joey's bank statements. So it would actually be more suspicious if those checks were deleted from Quickbooks.

My thought is there is another explanation.

 

[katydid23]

The best indicator of future behavior is past behavior, however, people also change.

Maybe Joey wanted him to write those checks.

Why wouldn't joey write the checks himself?

Why would he give the passwords and access to his banking info to a sketchy employee with a gambling problem?

And if Joey did give permission, there'd be no need for Chase to delete the info in the logs.

 

[missy1974]

If Dan was the one messing with the QB, how did Chase end hop with those checks?

Chase took 2 of those checks to msm to pay them. Did Dan give him those checks?

How about the checks that were made out to CM and deposited in his personal account? Did DK do that?

I am not saying this is what happened, I'm saying this is what the defense is saying.... listen to the questions asked by the defense, it's easy to figure out. They are saying Dan was messing with the finances... or being nosey... I don't know if it actually happened. I don't know if or why Joey would ask Chase to help, but they are saying he did. I'm not talking about the cheques at all... but if Joey trusted Chase enough to give him access to his QB's, then why not give him cheque's too?

AGAIN... I don't know if this happened or not. Just saying that this is where the defense is going with it. I don't think they will be able to explain away the cheques.... but we will see, lots more testimony to come.

 

[Force Ten]

The gambling industry in the US is a 250 BILLION industry (just looked it up) . If every person who gambled committed murder, it would be apocalypse. It is possible for someone to gamble and not be compelled to kill four people.

And I don't find Chase's withdrawals to really be all that large.

Of course all gamblers are not killers. That would be a ludicrous notion. As @oceanblueeyes noted, you can't compartmentalize certain aspects and criticize a single piece evidence because collectively it's much more damning to the guy on trial. Together with other evidence it illustrates what Chase was doing after the disappearance. It further implicates guilt.

 

[katydid23]

Here's an addendum question to that. If Chase killed Joseph and wrote the checks knowing he was dead, why delete the checks at all? LE would know the checks had been written if they looked at Joey's bank statements. So it would actually be more suspicious if those checks were deleted from Quickbooks.

My thought is there is another explanation.

He'd delete the checks to cover his tracks with LE. If he knew Joey was dead because HE MURDERED HIM, he wouldn't want LE detectives to see that he wrote himself checks at that same time.

He probably didnt realize they could see they were deleted at first. But when he realized that, he went and called QB to try and delete all of the records.

 

[JMarsh]

Why wouldn't joey write the checks himself?

Why would he give the passwords and access to his banking info to a sketchy employee with a gambling problem?

And if Joey did give permission, there'd be no need for Chase to delete the info in the logs.

In the work I've done, it's actually not unprecedented. As I mentioned before, I had a boss who had a stamp made of his signature. When I would print checks and he wasn't there, I just stamped his signature. In theory I could have gone to town printing checks and stamping his signature, but in a small company there tends to be more trust.

You may believe Chase to be sketchy, but Joey may not have felt that way at all.

 

[HelenK]

Fascinated by defense attorneys becoming prosecutors. Never thought it worked that way? Going from the private sector ? Very interesting.

Maybe because they'd defended so many obviously guilty jerks, they decided they wanted to put the kibosh on them instead.

 

[JMarsh]

He'd delete the checks to cover his tracks with LE. If he knew Joey was dead because HE MURDERED HIM, he wouldn't want LE detectives to see that he wrote himself checks at that same time.

He probably didnt realize they could see they were deleted at first. But when he realized that, he went and called QB to try and delete all of the records.

It's a great theory. Do you have any evidence to support it, though?

 

[missy1974]

RBBM. Was he deleting the transactions to hide them from Joey, or was he hiding them from Dan at Joey's request? I know it's reaching but the defense might claim this so it's something to think about.

I never thought of that.

 

[missy1974]

Oh Missy you must watch the whole thing lol, listen to how he describes the business situation after the McStays went missing.

I half listened, half read here... I think he's a little punk LOL Can't believe I was missing all of that all this time!!!!

 

[JMarsh]

Of course all gamblers are not killers. That would be a ludicrous notion. As @oceanblueeyes noted, you can't compartmentalize certain aspects and criticize a single piece evidence because collectively it's much more damning to the guy on trial. Together with other evidence it illustrates what Chase was doing after the disappearance. It further implicates guilt.

What implicates guilt?

 

[missy1974]

Why wouldn't joey write the checks himself?

Why would he give the passwords and access to his banking info to a sketchy employee with a gambling problem?

And if Joey did give permission, there'd be no need for Chase to delete the info in the logs.

Joey thought he was a sketchy employee with a gambling problem... did he actually say that to anyone? What we think and what Joey's frame of mind was can be 2 entirely different things.

I think he did know about a previous gambling problem and IIRC he mentioned it to Patrick at some point? But it doesn't mean that Joey considered him sketchy at all. Maybe he considered him a friend with some problems, maybe he thought he was helping him? Chase did seem to know an awful lot about them personally, I don't think it was just business buddies or a boss/employee relationship. JMO

 

[katydid23]

Well DK said in a cbs8 interview that Joey gave his vendors credit cards that were linked to e-checks and the PayPal account that they had access to. If vendors including CM had access to the PayPal account, did Joey give CM access to the custom side of the QB at some point prior to the disappearance? Did DK make this statement as a cover because he and MM transferred money out of the PayPal account? The question is if DK is to be believed, then why not the same for CM? Without Joey here to confirm or deny how does one come to a conclusion?

As to the bolded, NO, I don't believe so because of testimony in the preliminary by the LE detective who did the forensic exam of intuit:
[

THE WITNESS: Daniel, D-a-n-i-e-l, Hanke, H-a-n-k-e.
THE COURT: Okay, you may proceed.
MR. DAUGHERTY: Thank you, your Honor.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. DAUGHERTY:

Q How did you receive access to these records from Intuit?
A Intuit cloned Joseph’s accounts and made me an authorized user on the accounts. It was an online-based account, so I signed in using my information, and I could view Joseph’s account. I couldn’t alter it. I couldn’t change it or modify it. I could view and print the records, only.
Q And those are the records that we previously discussed were maintained by QuickBooks and the entries were at or near the time the events occurred?
A That’s correct.
Q Okay. With regard to both of those accounts, both the
Contact and the Custom account, how were those divvied up in the business? Was there two sides to the business, two separate businesses? Or do you know?

A Yes, there was. The original account, the Contact account that was created in 2004, had a mixture of Joseph’s personal finances as well as his business finances. The Custom account was strictly business, but he was not writing checks from that account.
Q When you write a check from QuickBooks, does it automatically debit the money from an account?
A If the user has a credit card, a bank card, somethinglike that associated with QuickBooks, it can debit. It can be linked to Pay Pal, those type of things. But Joseph basically used these accounts for an online ledger where he created invoices, he wrote checks and kept track of his money coming and going out. But it was not actually associated to a bank.
Q Did you also review or speak with someone who reviewed
Joseph’s bank accounts?
A Yes.
Q Was that at Union Bank?
A Yes.

Q Which? Did you review it or —
A Yes, I reviewed it and spoke with Detective Ryan Smith.
Q Okay. With regard to the Custom account, were any checks from, you said it was opened in January of 2008, from January of 2008 until February 1st, 2010, were any checks listed on QuickBooks or written from QuickBooks on the Custom side of the
account?
A On the Custom side, no.
Q So, all the checks during that time period were listed on
the other account?
A On the Contact account, yes.
Q Okay. On February 1st, 2010, were you able to tell from the records provided by Intuit whether there was any activity that day, on February 1st?
A Yes, I could.
Q What did you learn?

A I learned that a user — it showed that Joseph McStay logged onto the account, so that was Joseph McStay’s I.D. and password logged onto the account. And there was a vendor added, charles merritt, all lower-case letters;
Q Why was it significant to you that charles merritt was all lower case?
A When I looked at the Contact account, Charles Merritt was already a vendor in the Contact account. And there were checks written to Charles Merritt in the Contact account. And in that account it had Charles Merritt with a capital C, the rest of the
name of Charles was lower case, and there was a capital M and the rest of Merritt was lower case. In this account it was all lower case and it was a new vendor added.
Q Are you familiar — well, do you know if the McStays’ computers were completed as part of San Diego’s investigation?
A Yes, they were.
Q And how many computers did they have?
A I believe it was a desktop computer and a laptop computer.

Q Were those provided to San Bernardino County?
A Yes, they were.
Q And are you familiar with — well, was a forensic exam of those computers conducted?
A Yes, there was.
Q And are you familiar with that exam and the results of that exam?
A Yes, I am.
Q That transaction of February 1st where Charles Merritt was added as a vendor, did that occur from either the laptop of the McStays or the desktop of the McStays?
A No, it did not.
Q So, it didn’t happen from either of them?
A It did not happen from either the desktop or the laptop.
Q After a vendor, the vendor charles merritt, all lower case was added, what happened, what did you learn happened next? And you can view this chronologically as you’re looking at the records.

THE WITNESS: Okay, on February 1st, 2010, at 12:24 P.M., Joseph McStay, the user Joseph McStay added Charles Merritt as a vendor. The next activity was at 12:34 P.M., where there was a check made out to charles merritt, all lower-case letters, for the amount of $2500. The memo line on that one said: “deposit.”
Q (By Mr. Daugherty) What else did you see happen on the 1st?
A At 12:37 P.M., there was another check added to charles merritt, for the same amount, $2500. The memo line also stated: “deposit.”
Q Is that all lower case under charles merritt?
A It is.
Q How about on the memo line, “deposit.” Is that all lower case?
A It’s all lower case.
Q Now, on the Contact side of the account, would Joseph put information on the memo lines, occasionally?
A Yes, he did.
Q Did he capitalize the first letters?
A Yes, he did.
if not merritt, then who?



SO IF JOEY TOLD CHASE TO WRITE HIMSELF A CHECK, WHY DID CHASE MAKE HIMSELF A BRAND NEW LOWER CASE VENDER NAME?

AND WHY DELETE EVERY THING HE DID?

 

[JMarsh]

Joey thought he was a sketchy employee with a gambling problem... did he actually say that to anyone? What we think and what Joey's frame of mind was can be 2 entirely different things.

I think he did know about a previous gambling problem and IIRC he mentioned it to Patrick at some point? But it doesn't mean that Joey considered him sketchy at all. Maybe he considered him a friend with some problems, maybe he thought he was helping him? Chase did seem to know an awful lot about them personally, I don't think it was just business buddies or a boss/employee relationship. JMO

If you listen carefully to Chase's 2010 interview, there is something mentioned that might indicate why Joey may very well not have thought badly of those who gambled (and even got in trouble by way of that habit). Joey was very, very close to someone else who enjoyed a little risk here and there.

 

[katydid23]

Maybe the quickbooks check writing has nothing to do with the murders.

IT just happened to be it was on the same day the family went missing?

 

[JMarsh]

As to the bolded, NO, I don't believe so because of testimony in the preliminary by the LE detective who did the forensic exam of intuit:
[

THE WITNESS: Daniel, D-a-n-i-e-l, Hanke, H-a-n-k-e.
THE COURT: Okay, you may proceed.
MR. DAUGHERTY: Thank you, your Honor.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. DAUGHERTY:

Q How did you receive access to these records from Intuit?
A Intuit cloned Joseph’s accounts and made me an authorized user on the accounts. It was an online-based account, so I signed in using my information, and I could view Joseph’s account. I couldn’t alter it. I couldn’t change it or modify it. I could view and print the records, only.
Q And those are the records that we previously discussed were maintained by QuickBooks and the entries were at or near the time the events occurred?
A That’s correct.
Q Okay. With regard to both of those accounts, both the
Contact and the Custom account, how were those divvied up in the business? Was there two sides to the business, two separate businesses? Or do you know?

A Yes, there was. The original account, the Contact account that was created in 2004, had a mixture of Joseph’s personal finances as well as his business finances. The Custom account was strictly business, but he was not writing checks from that account.
Q When you write a check from QuickBooks, does it automatically debit the money from an account?
A If the user has a credit card, a bank card, somethinglike that associated with QuickBooks, it can debit. It can be linked to Pay Pal, those type of things. But Joseph basically used these accounts for an online ledger where he created invoices, he wrote checks and kept track of his money coming and going out. But it was not actually associated to a bank.
Q Did you also review or speak with someone who reviewed
Joseph’s bank accounts?
A Yes.
Q Was that at Union Bank?
A Yes.

Q Which? Did you review it or —
A Yes, I reviewed it and spoke with Detective Ryan Smith.
Q Okay. With regard to the Custom account, were any checks from, you said it was opened in January of 2008, from January of 2008 until February 1st, 2010, were any checks listed on QuickBooks or written from QuickBooks on the Custom side of the
account?
A On the Custom side, no.
Q So, all the checks during that time period were listed on
the other account?
A On the Contact account, yes.
Q Okay. On February 1st, 2010, were you able to tell from the records provided by Intuit whether there was any activity that day, on February 1st?
A Yes, I could.
Q What did you learn?

A I learned that a user — it showed that Joseph McStay logged onto the account, so that was Joseph McStay’s I.D. and password logged onto the account. And there was a vendor added, charles merritt, all lower-case letters;
Q Why was it significant to you that charles merritt was all lower case?
A When I looked at the Contact account, Charles Merritt was already a vendor in the Contact account. And there were checks written to Charles Merritt in the Contact account. And in that account it had Charles Merritt with a capital C, the rest of the
name of Charles was lower case, and there was a capital M and the rest of Merritt was lower case. In this account it was all lower case and it was a new vendor added.
Q Are you familiar — well, do you know if the McStays’ computers were completed as part of San Diego’s investigation?
A Yes, they were.
Q And how many computers did they have?
A I believe it was a desktop computer and a laptop computer.

Q Were those provided to San Bernardino County?
A Yes, they were.
Q And are you familiar with — well, was a forensic exam of those computers conducted?
A Yes, there was.
Q And are you familiar with that exam and the results of that exam?
A Yes, I am.
Q That transaction of February 1st where Charles Merritt was added as a vendor, did that occur from either the laptop of the McStays or the desktop of the McStays?
A No, it did not.
Q So, it didn’t happen from either of them?
A It did not happen from either the desktop or the laptop.
Q After a vendor, the vendor charles merritt, all lower case was added, what happened, what did you learn happened next? And you can view this chronologically as you’re looking at the records.

THE WITNESS: Okay, on February 1st, 2010, at 12:24 P.M., Joseph McStay, the user Joseph McStay added Charles Merritt as a vendor. The next activity was at 12:34 P.M., where there was a check made out to charles merritt, all lower-case letters, for the amount of $2500. The memo line on that one said: “deposit.”
Q (By Mr. Daugherty) What else did you see happen on the 1st?
A At 12:37 P.M., there was another check added to charles merritt, for the same amount, $2500. The memo line also stated: “deposit.”
Q Is that all lower case under charles merritt?
A It is.
Q How about on the memo line, “deposit.” Is that all lower case?
A It’s all lower case.
Q Now, on the Contact side of the account, would Joseph put information on the memo lines, occasionally?
A Yes, he did.
Q Did he capitalize the first letters?
A Yes, he did.
if not merritt, then who?



SO IF JOEY TOLD CHASE TO WRITE HIMSELF A CHECK, WHY DID CHASE MAKE HIMSELF A BRAND NEW LOWER CASE VENDER NAME?

AND WHY DELETE EVERY THING HE DID?

Very possibly because the Custom and the Contact accounts were completely separate. We'll have to find out, but could be that Joey, placed restrictions on Chase's access. It may be that Chase had to create a new vendor list for the Custom account. Again, if you don't know how QBooks works, this stuff gets tricky to explain.

 

[JMarsh]

IT just happened to be it was on the same day the family went missing?

Yes.

 

[katydid23]

Yeah. What is the strike through about?

LMAO--I have no idea. I must have accidentally hit some key that made it do that. When I hit edit and tried to fix it, it still came out that way.

 

[katydid23]

Very possibly because the Custom and the Contact accounts were completely separate. We'll have to find out, but could be that Joey, placed restrictions on Chase's access. It may be that Chase had to create a new vendor list for the Custom account. Again, if you don't know how QBooks works, this stuff gets tricky to explain.

OK, so if joey placed restrictions on Chases's access, why would he then say 'hey help yourself to my bank account and write yourself some checks? ' ' Oh, and be sure and delete them all when you are done...'