CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #3

[LifeIsAMystery]

So if the sheriff helped create that map, there is reason to believe that’s the likely route.

Ugh. They still had a way to go in extreme heat. I don’t know why if they started to suffer, they didn’t go down to the river and wait.

I think they were likely afraid of the algae, I believe there were many dead fish too, there were photos or videos in one of the algae articles.

 

[Tiredmomofthree]

The lightening theory posited by @SpideySense is an interesting one. If JG were killed by a ground current strike would that show up on his phone, that is, would there be evidence of damage? Seems like electrical shock would damage the phone in some way (but I have zero idea about this sort of thing!). And would it be possible that mom could be killed by the same strike at that distance? I don't think she'd move away from JG, baby, and dog because of the same logic as to why all the water would have used in a heat stroke situation - panic to act. Is there another way to explain the distance?

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

Dangerous toxic algae is found upstream from where Snapchat engineer and his family were found dead | Daily Mail Online

The DM link says upstream, the headline says downstream, makes a difference. And they may have had no contact with the water, we don't know yet. I am curious if they carried a water filter, it would not eliminate the toxins but wonder if filtering water on the trail was a common practice for them as it is for many?

 

[Pseudonymph]

What if they were doubly unlucky? Suppose the baby shows signs of being overcome by heat, so the whole family plunges into the river to cool her off. Then they proceed on their hike and die of toxic algae down the trail.

 

[SophieRose]

Okay. Well even in coastal California, trails can get super hot. They’re usually not right at the water’s edge and can be super oppressive in the summer. This truly baffles me.

The last hike recorded on his AllTrails account was in Southern California, but not sure if he actually did it or not.

https://www.alltrails.com/members/jonathan-gerrish

 

[SpideySense]

<modsnip>

Hiking up sunny, rocky trails in Cloverdale, CA in 100 degree morning weather and spending the day’s 106-108 degree heat playing and jumping into swimming holes in the Russian River, finding shade under random scrub and digging in the mud. Backpacking as a 7 and 8 year old at 8000 feet elevation up blazing hot switchbacks and trails in the Sierra Nevada in the full summer sun to arrive at a secluded lake 5 miles in by late afternoon, with our 2 Siberian Huskies (yes, the full coated sled dog) happily trekking along and snooping out marmot dens. Taking long hikes when temps were in the 90s with our huskies in Death Valley, exploring almost every canyon there. <modsnip>


They (NPS) want families being active and enjoying the outdoors. And they have advice and guidelines about how to hike in extreme temperatures (not limited to age or infancy) and do it safely.

<modsnip>

As a young child (and I’m sure as a baby), I did what these people did. A hot summer hike to a cold river was the BEST. To be sweating and hot and looking out for rattlesnakes and just about to start being miserable, and then finally being able to plunge into cold water! For some people, that’s the stuff of life.

I don’t judge my parents badly for those experiences. I never felt unsafe, and we and the dogs always had plenty of water. There were certainly times on hot switchbacks carrying a backpack on my tiny legs that I complained, even cried, asking “When are we there!?” But I learned that struggle is just part of life and can actually be very gratifying, and the rewards are so worth it.

I’m forever grateful to my parents for getting me out there, often in what might be termed extreme conditions, safely and with love.

 

[gitana1]

So, California has many different climates. She was from Orange County, California, which is much more mild in the summertime.

He is from the UK but they both lived for a number of years in the San Franciso Bay Area (her for the last 10 years or so, I believe she attended UC Berkeley for undergrad and he was a software engineer at Google, which I believe is located in Palo Alto, California - at least the headquarters is.

So, they had been living in the Bay Area for quite some time (her 10 years, him unknown years) which is much more mild in the summertime.

What is that saying, "the coldest winter I ever spent was summer in San Francisco" Ha ha.

Seriously though, California is like several different states. The central valley is completely different climate-wise from the coast. In the summertime, when I lived in the central valley, I would not want to be out in the middle of the day for an extended period. Esp. without shade, it would be unbearable, imo. As another person mentioned, even though they had lived in Mariposa for one year, they are probably indoors most the day, in air conditioning. I really wish they could go back in time and not go on that ill-fated hike.

I wouldn’t say that. I’m from Southern California and hike the canyons all over Orange County. It’s not that mild. Laguna CanyonWilderness trails which are on the Coast can be deadly in the heat. Same with Corona Del Mar/Crystal Cove trails. You just go half a mile inland and it can get scorching.

Today it was 94 degrees in Modjeska Canyon, which is a good, vertical hike to the top of Saddleback Mountain down here, Silverado Canyon which is a very slight incline until it hits the base of saddleback and then it’s vertical, and it was 100 degrees in one of my regular spots (Santiago Canyon/Irvine Park) which is similar in loop to what they seemed to hike, except there are more spots where you can get out of the canyon fast.

I wouldn’t hike any of those in the day when it’s over 85. I have on accident before and it’s brutal because some of those trails lack any real shade. Just bushes.

I usually hike at dusk/night or early in the morning (if I can get up), from July through September, unless we get some good days. But it can get hot fast.

If they’re avid hikers they would’ve checked the weather and totally should’ve known better. And I still can’t imagine how the dog went more than half an hour before collapsing. Fur, close to the ground, lots of surface area exposed to the sun: Going downhill or not, he would’ve been in trouble. Fast.

But we know they did it. So I can’t explain it!

 

[Deleted member 222031]

<modsnip>

Hiking up sunny, rocky trails in Cloverdale, CA in 100 degree morning weather and spending the day’s 108 degree heat playing and jumping into swimming holes in the Russian River, finding shade under random scrub and digging in the mud. Backpacking as a 7 and 8 year old at 8000 feet elevation up blazing hot switchbacks and trails in the Sierra Nevada in the full summer sun to arrive at a secluded lake 5 miles in by late afternoon, with our 2 Siberian Huskies (yes, the full coated sled dog) happily trekking along and snooping out marmot dens. Taking long hikes when temps were in the 90s with our huskies in Death Valley, exploring almost every canyon there.

<modsnip>

They (NPS) want families being active and enjoying the outdoors. And they have advice and guidelines about how to hike in extreme temperatures (not limited to age or infancy) and do it safely.

<modsnip>

As a young child (and I’m sure as a baby), I did what these people did. A hot summer hike to a cold river was the BEST. To be sweating and hot and looking out for rattlesnakes and just about to start being miserable, and then finally being able to plunge into cold water! For some people, that’s the stuff of life.

I don’t judge my parents badly for those experiences. I never felt unsafe, and we and the dogs always had plenty of water. There were certainly times on hot switchbacks carrying a backpack on my tiny legs that I complained, even cried, asking “When are we there!?” But I learned that struggle is just part of life and can actually be very gratifying, and the rewards are so worth it.

I’m forever grateful to my parents for getting me out there, often in what might be termed extreme conditions, safely and with love.

Great post! Curious what your main red flags would be for this hike and how you would have mitigated them. I'm leaning toward at least two unrelated factors ultimately leading to death. It was the combo, not the single effect of each in my mind.

Thanks for sharing your perspective on the importance of not fear mongering. I am concerned about their choices but not convinced whatever led to their deaths was completely preventable. Hopefully the toxicology results will tell us?

 

[gitana1]

The last hike recorded on his AllTrails account was in Southern California, but not sure if he actually did it or not.

https://www.alltrails.com/members/jonathan-gerrish

It’s sad to see his activity and know he’s dead. That’s one I’ve been to many times. It gets super hot. But he did a super short loop. But he did a 13 mile one at Crystal Cove along the coast which is super long.

I feel like he really should’ve know better. And I’m not victim blaming. I’m just confused because it doesn’t make sense. Sorry for being so repetitive!

 

[gitana1]

The DM link says upstream, the headline says downstream, makes a difference. And they may have had no contact with the water, we don't know yet. I am curious if they carried a water filter, it would not eliminate the toxins but wonder if filtering water on the trail was a common practice for them as it is for many?

They would’ve needed to carry what, about 1 liter per adult per hour they hiked, at least that for their dog, and I’ve never hiked with a baby, so I’m not sure how much for her.

 

[EndoraXplorer]

@SpideySense, I can't agree with you more. We never had a dog, but we certainly had our share of outdoor adventures when I was a kid, much like what you described and even "riskier."

My mom is also 12 years younger than my dad, and she was actually usually the instigator of our riskier outings. I would not even presume to hazard a guess about the family dynamics of EC and JG.

Sometimes, things just happen, despite the best preparations. Some years back, I hiked up White Mountain Peak (White Mountain Peak - Wikipedia), a 14,000 footer, with my boyfriend. We spent the night at 9,000ft to acclimate, and set off early in the morning. We had plenty of water, electrolytes, and other provisions. We were prepared for the different temperatures along the climb. Nevertheless, I started getting altitude sickness / peripheral edema. My bf suggested we turn back, but I thought I could make it, and I powered through. My face and hands swelled so much that I'm almost unrecognizable in the photos of me at the summit. In hindsight, we should have turned back. At the time, I made a decision that seemed right at the time. It could have ended badly, but it didn't.

 

[formerreddingrunner]

I just found these when I googled their names, I'm not sure if we're allowed to post these (I'm not sure what the rules are) For his "biography" it looks like half of it is taken from his LinkedIn resume of jobs.
Jonathan Gerrish biography
Ellen Chung biography

So, it looks like he was in the Bay Area since 2006 working for Google. *Orange, California is a city in Orange County, California (not sure if that confuses people). I've been using the terms interchangeably, lol. Overall, very tragic. I'm going to write a nice comment on her Instagram page Echungster.

 

[RedHaus]

RS&BBM
@Runswithdogs, you remind me about an early theory in our discussion. I wonder if LE is considering something along the line of this poor family accidentally getting caught up in a grow-ops in the area while exploring a mine? Remember a poster throwing out early on whether a mountain lion impeded their progress to safety? What if it was a [violent] human instead?

Sorry to quote my own post, but I did a bit of sleuthing about illegal marijuana grow operations in Mariposa county. It appears common knowledge from fellow posters who know the area that this activity is prevalent. And I believe it is common knowledge that any form of illegal drug trade is rife with violence associated with protecting those criminal interests.

Anyhow, not that I think this a top theory contender, I wonder if LE is trying / has tried to connect any dots between the fate of this family and any grow-ops in the area. I found two articles that may be of interest... One is about a 7/11/2021 fatal shooting associated with a grow-ops 18 miles from Hites Cove Road. Was there aggrivated friction within Mariposa County grow-ops this summer?

The other is about a major bust in Mariposa County in 2016. Clearly that Sheriff's department is very busy!

I personally would be terrified to stumble across an illegal grow... the outcome could be indiscriminately lethal. I won't belabor this for the good of the order. But I do want to bring some attention to a remote scenario. See the quote of my post for an idea.

Men identified in illegal marijuana grow shooting in Mariposa County

Ten Arrests in Mariposa County for Marijuana Cultivation

 

[mickey2942]

I wonder if they will release the information from the autopsies.

 

[SpideySense]

Great post! Curious what your main red flags would be for this hike and how you would have mitigated them. I'm leaning toward at least two unrelated factors ultimately leading to death. It was the combo, not the single effect of each in my mind.

Thanks for sharing your perspective on the importance of not fear mongering. I am concerned about their choices but not convinced whatever led to their deaths was completely preventable. Hopefully the toxicology results will tell us?

Well, now that I’m pushing 50 and spent most of my adult years cooped up in offices, I’ve become a total heat wuss, lol! There’s no way I, personally, would have done this hike if you asked me to join you. Not because it would necessarily be deadly, but because I’ve gotten used to comfort and know I’d hate every hot step of the way.

But if I got back to my childhood/teen mind when these kinds of adventures somehow seemed fun, or challenging, or had some attractive punishment/reward thing going, it would be totally doable if I did it a certain way. Here’d be my thinking and my red flags:

Hikes generally suck. Walks and strolls are fun and easy. But hikes are hard and uncomfortable. I only do them to get a reward (a river, a lake, a view from the peak, a picnic, etc.) The rest is generally suffering and paying attention not to twist an ankle, unless I’m distracted by an enjoyable conversation or something. That might sound funny, but that’s always been my take on hiking and backpacking. The route in and out is miserable, but the destination is glorious and worth it.

So the idea of some degree of suffering going in and coming back out, for me, is just part of the deal. That’s why this family’s hike makes sense to me. The hike down is gonna suck, the hike back up is gonna suck, but the hours we spend at the river hanging out in the shade and swimming will be the reward.

I’d know we’d have to get in the water pretty soon after getting down the first leg of the trail, maybe everybody dip and dunk periodically in the river before continuing on. Hiking in wet clothes is actually pretty cooling. My understanding from the State Water testing site was that the algae was detected at Hites Cove and I would be upstream of that. I’d be nursing my baby pretty frequently and checking her status all the time. Her carrier would have a shade cover, and I’d carry a water spray bottle on my hip to keep her cool. I’d know our biggest water needs would be once we got down to the river and it was super hot, and then the hike out. The time we planted ourselves at some shady part of the river for a few hours, our water needs wouldn’t be as huge but it’s still the time to snack and hydrate.

And I wouldn’t hike back out until the last uphill slog was in shade and the temps had cooled. I’m not that masochistic. I’d stay down by the river until dusk if necessary.

 

[SpideySense]

@SpideySense, I can't agree with you more. We never had a dog, but we certainly had our share of outdoor adventures when I was a kid, much like what you described and even "riskier."

My mom is also 12 years younger than my dad, and she was actually usually the instigator of our riskier outings. I would not even presume to hazard a guess about the family dynamics of EC and JG.

Sometimes, things just happen, despite the best preparations. Some years back, I hiked up White Mountain Peak (White Mountain Peak - Wikipedia), a 14,000 footer, with my boyfriend. We spent the night at 9,000ft to acclimate, and set off early in the morning. We had plenty of water, electrolytes, and other provisions. We were prepared for the different temperatures along the climb. Nevertheless, I started getting altitude sickness / peripheral edema. My bf suggested we turn back, but I thought I could make it, and I powered through. My face and hands swelled so much that I'm almost unrecognizable in the photos of me at the summit. In hindsight, we should have turned back. At the time, I made a decision that seemed right at the time. It could have ended badly, but it didn't.

Glad everything turned out okay! Altitude sickness is no joke. It’s true, though. Outdoor activity always carries risk, no matter how well-prepared you are.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

And I wouldn’t hike back out until the last uphill slog was in shade and the temps had cooled. I’m not that masochistic. I’d stay down by the river until dusk if necessary

I have actually wondered if they did that -- this is the one thing I think makes the most sense if I were in their situation, which is to hang out at the river overnight (on such extreme heat days, in my experience, it would stay too hot to hike up comfortably -- over 80*F, let's say -- for several hours after dark) and hike up at or just before dawn when it's coolest.

LE hasn't mentioned this and I don't see why it would be held confidential if they did find evidence of an overnight camp spot, so I guess they didn't do that.

I also wish we had some indication of whether they went into the water or not. Even if they were worried about the algae toxin, at some point the need to cool down would take priority, I would think. MOO

 

[gitana1]

<modsnip>

Hiking up sunny, rocky trails in Cloverdale, CA in 100 degree morning weather and spending the day’s 106-108 degree heat playing and jumping into swimming holes in the Russian River, finding shade under random scrub and digging in the mud. Backpacking as a 7 and 8 year old at 8000 feet elevation up blazing hot switchbacks and trails in the Sierra Nevada in the full summer sun to arrive at a secluded lake 5 miles in by late afternoon, with our 2 Siberian Huskies (yes, the full coated sled dog) happily trekking along and snooping out marmot dens. Taking long hikes when temps were in the 90s with our huskies in Death Valley, exploring almost every canyon there. <modsnip>

<modsnip>

As a young child (and I’m sure as a baby), I did what these people did. A hot summer hike to a cold river was the BEST. To be sweating and hot and looking out for rattlesnakes and just about to start being miserable, and then finally being able to plunge into cold water! For some people, that’s the stuff of life.

I don’t judge my parents badly for those experiences. I never felt unsafe, and we and the dogs always had plenty of water. There were certainly times on hot switchbacks carrying a backpack on my tiny legs that I complained, even cried, asking “When are we there!?” But I learned that struggle is just part of life and can actually be very gratifying, and the rewards are so worth it.

I’m forever grateful to my parents for getting me out there, often in what might be termed extreme conditions, safely and with love.

Heat related injuries/death aren’t unusual in our state. And these people couldn’t have been acclimatized to extreme heat like you’re describing hiking in (108 degrees while hiking up hill, with Siberian Huskies? Holy smokes).

“Heat stroke is life-threatening, killing an average of 700 people in the US each year. Thousands more recover from it, some with lasting health issues. Heat stroke happens when a person’s core reaches 104.9 degrees or higher. At this temperature, the brain and nervous system begin to shut down...Untreated, death follows.” How to Adventure Smart in Extreme Heat

1. One hiker died and four others suffered from heat exhaustion when their group ran out of water during a hike in the Malibu Hills on Monday, according to officials from the Los Angeles County Fire Department and Sheriff’s Department.

Temperatures that rose to 85 degrees left several hikers in need of help.

In total, emergency crews saved eight hikers in four locations responding to simultaneous calls for help in the Zuma Canyon area, officials said. The hikers were located in different areas of four cliff-sides.
One hiker dead and 4 others suffer heat exhaustion in Malibu Hills

2. Authorities in Los Angeles County shut down trails in the Santa Monica Mountains after a woman died while hiking as a record-setting heatwave and wildfires scorched California. The woman, whose name wasn't released yet, had been hiking with a friend Saturday afternoon on a trail near the city of Calabasas when she started feeling sick and collapsed...Malibu Search and Rescue, a unit within the sheriff’s department, said it responded to several heat-related rescues Saturday. The National Weather Service documented a slew of record-setting temperatures across the state Sunday. In Woodland Hills, just north of Calabasas, the mercury reached a sweltering 121 degrees.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna123944

3. The Solano County Office of Emergency Services requested that the trails remain closed until the end of the heat wave. A National Weather Service meteorologist predicted the Lake Berryessa area would see a high temperature of 100 degrees on Wednesday (July 18), followed by highs in the low- to mid-90s through July 24. The signs went up Monday (July 16) at UC Davis’ Stebbins Cold Canyon Reserve: “Trails Are Closed” — and here’s why: No sooner did a heat wave arrive last weekend than at least two hikers suffered severe heat-related illness at the natural reserve near Lake Berryessa west of Winters.
Heat-Related Illness Strikes at Stebbins


INCIDENCE OF HEAT-RELATED ILLNESS AND DEATH?
From 1999 to 2010, 8,081 heat-related deaths were reported in the United States. In 5,783 (72%)

of these deaths, the underlying cause was exposure to excessive heat, and heat was a contributing factor in the remaining 2,298 (28%) deaths. Of these 8,081 deaths, 6,850 occurred among U.S. residents and 1,231 occurred among non-U.S. residents. Heat-related deaths were reported most frequently among males (5,567; 69%) and among adults aged ≥65 years (2,901; 36%) (Figure 1).9,10 The lowest crude death rates were among White females and White males (Figure 2).

Almost all heat-related deaths occurred during May– September (7,621; 94%), with the highest numbers reported during July (3,145; 39%) and August (2,138; 26%).


https://www.cdc.gov/pictureofamerica/pdfs/picture_of_america_heat-related_illness.pdf

 

[SpideySense]

Heat related injuries/death aren’t unusual in our state. And these people couldn’t have been acclimatized to extreme heat like you’re describing hiking in (108 degrees while hiking up hill, with Siberian Huskies? Holy smokes).

“Heat stroke is life-threatening, killing an average of 700 people in the US each year. Thousands more recover from it, some with lasting health issues. Heat stroke happens when a person’s core reaches 104.9 degrees or higher. At this temperature, the brain and nervous system begin to shut down...Untreated, death follows.” How to Adventure Smart in Extreme Heat

1. One hiker died and four others suffered from heat exhaustion when their group ran out of water during a hike in the Malibu Hills on Monday, according to officials from the Los Angeles County Fire Department and Sheriff’s Department.

Temperatures that rose to 85 degrees left several hikers in need of help.

In total, emergency crews saved eight hikers in four locations responding to simultaneous calls for help in the Zuma Canyon area, officials said. The hikers were located in different areas of four cliff-sides.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.la...-09-02/hiker-dead-heat-malibu-hills?_amp=true
One hiker dead and 4 others suffer heat exhaustion in Malibu Hills

2. Authorities in Los Angeles County shut down trails in the Santa Monica Mountains after a woman died while hiking as a record-setting heatwave and wildfires scorched California. The woman, whose name wasn't released yet, had been hiking with a friend Saturday afternoon on a trail near the city of Calabasas when she started feeling sick and collapsed...Malibu Search and Rescue, a unit within the sheriff’s department, said it responded to several heat-related rescues Saturday. The National Weather Service documented a slew of record-setting temperatures across the state Sunday. In Woodland Hills, just north of Calabasas, the mercury reached a sweltering 121 degrees.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna123944

3. The Solano County Office of Emergency Services requested that the trails remain closed until the end of the heat wave. A National Weather Service meteorologist predicted the Lake Berryessa area would see a high temperature of 100 degrees on Wednesday (July 18), followed by highs in the low- to mid-90s through July 24. The signs went up Monday (July 16) at UC Davis’ Stebbins Cold Canyon Reserve: “Trails Are Closed” — and here’s why: No sooner did a heat wave arrive last weekend than at least two hikers suffered severe heat-related illness at the natural reserve near Lake Berryessa west of Winters.
Heat-Related Illness Strikes at Stebbins


INCIDENCE OF HEAT-RELATED ILLNESS AND DEATH?
From 1999 to 2010, 8,081 heat-related deaths were reported in the United States. In 5,783 (72%)

of these deaths, the underlying cause was exposure to excessive heat, and heat was a contributing factor in the remaining 2,298 (28%) deaths. Of these 8,081 deaths, 6,850 occurred among U.S. residents and 1,231 occurred among non-U.S. residents. Heat-related deaths were reported most frequently among males (5,567; 69%) and among adults aged ≥65 years (2,901; 36%) (Figure 1).9,10 The lowest crude death rates were among White females and White males (Figure 2).

Almost all heat-related deaths occurred during May– September (7,621; 94%), with the highest numbers reported during July (3,145; 39%) and August (2,138; 26%).


https://www.cdc.gov/pictureofamerica/pdfs/picture_of_america_heat-related_illness.pdf

No, no, maybe I wasn’t clear. We wouldn’t have been hiking in Cloverdale during the peak heat of 106-108. That’s the time everyone would be in the Russian River or wet in the shade alongside it.

 

[mickey2942]

I don't think these folks were ready for an all out adventure. They just had no clue about the effects of the heat, when they went on what they probably thought was a moderate hike for people of normal fitness, with a dog.

Probably if they had gone on the same hike today, with cooler temperatures, everyone would be home now.

It is something we all need to think about.