CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #4

[Pumphouse363]

In the SF Examiner photo, JG is carrying the baby in a pack-style carrier worn in the front position:

Family’s death in Sierra National Forest is shrouded in mystery - The San Francisco Examiner

I found a similar carrier here:

360 All Positions Baby Carrier: Cool Air Mesh - Chambray

The description states: “The Ergobaby 360 is a natural next step after your little one outgrows the stage of being carried in a baby wrap or newborn carrier. This award-winning, all-position baby carrier is comfortable and functional between 12 and 45 pounds, with four ergonomic ways to babywear.”

This pack can be worn on the front or back. Given the baby’s age (which we know) and weight (which we do not), this may or may not have been the carrier the family used the day of their hike.

Thank you for this - but why would they post a pic of just the baby backpack if they’d had it for a while?

 

[Parsnip]

Thank you for this - but why would they post a pic of just the baby backpack if they’d had it for a while?

MOO: I don’t think they would. At least, I wouldn’t. Hence my speculation.

 

[minazoe]

Thank you for this - but why would they post a pic of just the baby backpack if they’d had it for a while?

it's another weird fact about this story. perhaps it was posted accidentally..by itself it looks like a clue..if you are looking for them. I'm just feeling these small details are important . If anyone actually saw the post I wonder if any comment accompanied the picture of the backpack. ??? mOO

 

[Pumphouse363]

In the SF Examiner photo, JG is carrying the baby in a pack-style carrier worn in the front position:

Family’s death in Sierra National Forest is shrouded in mystery - The San Francisco Examiner

I found a similar carrier here:

360 All Positions Baby Carrier: Cool Air Mesh - Chambray

The description states: “The Ergobaby 360 is a natural next step after your little one outgrows the stage of being carried in a baby wrap or newborn carrier. This award-winning, all-position baby carrier is comfortable and functional between 12 and 45 pounds, with four ergonomic ways to babywear.”

This pack can be worn on the front or back. Given the baby’s age (which we know) and weight (which we do not), this may or may not have been the carrier the family used the day of their hike.

Thank you for this - but why would they post a pic of just the baby backpack if they’d had it for a while?

I'm beginning to sense that this whole thing is just another mumbo jumbo becoming like another one of those unsolved mysteries.

LE would've known by now how far the couple was hiking that day by simply examining the shoes they were wearing.

If they were near the water or muddy area, the bottom of their shoes would contain all the clues to where they were hiking.

I recall someone here mentioning about baby's diapers as a traceable piece of their hiking route.
There are multiples of traceable elements that LE could examine to first rule out the whole loop hiking assumption of the savage-lund trail.

I think this is a brilliant assertion and one that LE should be able to do quite easily - I wonder whether they have?

 

[Pumphouse363]

MOO

I have a tentative theory, which I’ll abandon in an instant if any more evidence shows up.

Let’s suppose that Jonathon, carrying the baby, feels the effect of heat and exertion the most. They decide that he’ll sit down, rest and recover, and then they’ll go on. Naively, they don’t realize that he has heat stroke, and that just resting and drinking water isn’t enough.

The dog is on a leash, fastened to Jonathon somehow. (We have not heard for certain that the dog was on a leash, although one report implied it. There are certainly good reasons for having your dog on a leash—like, what if you do meet up with a rattlesnake?)

So, Ellen stays with her family, and becomes more and more overcome by the heat. (Even when they first stop to rest, she might well not be thinking as clearly as she normally would, again, from the heat.) Finally, she realizes that the only chance for their survival is for her to get help. She might not realize that Jonathon is getting worse, rather than better, until he becomes unconscious. (As for her getting help, I don’t think we’ve heard anything about where the car keys were, or where her phone was. Maybe she left it in the car, even.)

So, why she doesn’t take her baby? Maybe, in a moment of coherence, she realizes that with the added weight she would have no chance of getting help—and the baby’s survival depends on her getting help.

So, she starts off to get help. The added exertion of struggling up that hill pushes her over the edge. She doesn’t get far. The baby and dog, completely helpless, both die.

This is entirely my speculation. I think it’s consistent with what we do know, and it avoids the question of: “how could they all die at once?” The answer would be: they didn’t.

MOO

This is a good explanation but where is Miju situated in this scenario? In the backpack? On the ground? Sitting up? Lying down? In the arms of Jon? The reports state that Miju is in the backpack close to the dog and near to Jon when they were discovered.

 

[Parsnip]

This is a good explanation but where is Miju situated in this scenario? In the backpack? On the ground? Sitting up? Lying down? In the arms of Jon? The reports state that Miju is in the backpack close to the dog and near to Jon when they were discovered.

@Pumphouse363 , check out Thread 1, round about posts 840-850. CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death remote hiking area, Aug 2021

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

The technology aspect isn't what takes the most time, it's the legal warrants required for each app on the phone, to each software provider; add that to what is needed from the carrier, and it's a lengthy process.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Electronics is my field. I haven't paid much attention to what it takes to hack into a phone, but have read news articles about how difficult, expensive and time-consuming it is for the FBI to do it in national security cases such as the 2015 San Bernardino mass shooting. It probably depends on factors such as what type of phones they had, and how security-conscious they were. Here's an article about what it took to get into a terrorist's phone. Excerpt: "Attorney General William Barr and FBI Director Chris Wray announced that after months of work, FBI technicians had succeeded in unlocking the two iPhones used by the Saudi military officer who carried out a terrorist shooting at the Pensacola Naval Air Station in Florida in December 2019." MOO.

 

[Newsjunkiejen]

I wonder who saw this pic then and informed the media or LE? If it was private then the person(s) who saw it may have known where they were going ? And following this train of reasoning isn’t it also probable the person(s) would have asked where they were going? When my friends post pics I usually respond accordingly. When something bad happens to a relative or friend we seek reassurance that there was nothing that could have been done to help them. We want to think the best of them but accept that there is always human error and the elements of nature to take into account. There are so many suggestions on this site that provide plausible possibilities as to how the family may have met their demise, but none of them satisfy my personal understanding of this terrible occurrence. Thank you to everyone who has made suggestions. MOO

OK, so... The mystery photo of the backpack was posted on a private account which leads me to believe that the person who saw the photo was known to J&E. Usually we only allow friends/family/colleagues to follow our private accounts, and not random strangers.

How, I wonder, did the news of this photo reach MSM? I don't know if it was divulged by LE or if the source was first hand (ie; the person known to J&E who saw the photo themselves).

It's just strange to me that MSM have referenced this photo, and posted other images from J&E's private social media, but not that particular image of the backpack.

Someone had to have sent the private images to MSM for them to use, as they had no access otherwise with the social media accounts being private.

The person that provided the images must be a friend/family/colleague or someone known to J&E for them to be able to view their social media.

This then begs the question why wouldn't they have supplied the photo of the backpack if that was supposedly the last image that was posted by J&E, and could also help with identification, as in, "We believe the family had this backpack with them, did anyone see them on the trail at any point?"

Maybe it was the police that had access to their social media and provided the MSM with the other Instagram images, but again, surely the last posted image which could perhaps aid in witness identification/timeline, would have been helpful to disclose to the public?

MOO

 

[armchairagatha]

OK, so... The mystery photo of the backpack was posted on a private account which leads me to believe that the person who saw the photo was known to J&E. Usually we only allow friends/family/colleagues to follow our private accounts, and not random strangers.

How, I wonder, did the news of this photo reach MSM? I don't know if it was divulged by LE or if the source was first hand (ie; the person known to J&E who saw the photo themselves).

It's just strange to me that MSM have referenced this photo, and posted other images from J&E's private social media, but not that particular image of the backpack.

Someone had to have sent the private images to MSM for them to use, as they had no access otherwise with the social media accounts being private.

The person that provided the images must be a friend/family/colleague or someone known to J&E for them to be able to view their social media.

This then begs the question why wouldn't they have supplied the photo of the backpack if that was supposedly the last image that was posted by J&E, and could also help with identification, as in, "We believe the family had this backpack with them, did anyone see them on the trail at any point?"

Maybe it was the police that had access to their social media and provided the MSM with the other Instagram images, but again, surely the last posted image which could perhaps aid in witness identification/timeline, would have been helpful to disclose to the public?

MOO

A simple explanation is that this photo (and some others) were posted as "Instagram stories" or similar which automatically expire after 24 hours of posting. While the other photos provided to MSM were regular Instagram posts (which are not transient).
Instagram Posts vs Instagram Stories: Is One Better Than the Other?

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

. . . This then begs the question why wouldn't they have supplied the photo of the backpack if that was supposedly the last image that was posted by J&E, and could also help with identification, as in, "We believe the family had this backpack with them, did anyone see them on the trail at any point?" . . . . MOO

snipped for emphasis

It's possible the pack was posted, as someone has said, on Instagram Stories, which means by the time the family disappeared the photo would be gone. They only last 24 hrs. It could be retrieved from IG, because the acct holder can retrieve old Stories, I believe. If the pack had been posted on Snapchat, then it's gone forever and lasts only 24 hrs. So friends might see the Story and remember it, but not be able to reproduce it. If this were a crime, I believe that LE could retrieve the images from IG but it would take time. Since they don't believe it's a crime, they may be less apt to.

FWIW my children only post IG Stories. When they post a photo I really like, I screenshot and save it. That may have happened with the "private" photos the media have. I'm sure I'm not the only person to screenshot great photos I know are going to vanish.

 

[Newsjunkiejen]

A simple explanation is that this photo (and some others) were posted as "Instagram stories" or similar which automatically expire after 24 hours of posting. While the other photos provided to MSM were regular Instagram posts (which are not transient).
Instagram Posts vs Instagram Stories: Is One Better Than the Other?

Good call, yes, stories expire after 24hrs unless they're saved to a 'Highlight', so some content is gone forever, so to speak.

 

[Newsjunkiejen]

Electronics is my field. I haven't paid much attention to what it takes to hack into a phone, but have read news articles about how difficult, expensive and time-consuming it is for the FBI to do it in national security cases such as the 2015 San Bernardino mass shooting. It probably depends on factors such as what type of phones they had, and how security-conscious they were. Here's an article about what it took to get into a terrorist's phone. Excerpt: "Attorney General William Barr and FBI Director Chris Wray announced that after months of work, FBI technicians had succeeded in unlocking the two iPhones used by the Saudi military officer who carried out a terrorist shooting at the Pensacola Naval Air Station in Florida in December 2019." MOO.

And perhaps because of the nature of Jonathan's work, he may have had extra layers of security on his phone in terms of getting it unlocked and accessing the info in there etc.

JMO

 

[armchairagatha]

I wonder who saw this pic then and informed the media or LE? If it was private then the person(s) who saw it may have known where they were going ? And following this train of reasoning isn’t it also probable the person(s) would have asked where they were going? When my friends post pics I usually respond accordingly. When something bad happens to a relative or friend we seek reassurance that there was nothing that could have been done to help them. We want to think the best of them but accept that there is always human error and the elements of nature to take into account. There are so many suggestions on this site that provide plausible possibilities as to how the family may have met their demise, but none of them satisfy my personal understanding of this terrible occurrence. Thank you to everyone who has made suggestions. MOO

Pumphouse363, do you respond to every pic that your friends post on social media? And ask them for more details on where they are going that day with the item in the pic? I certainly don't. I guess I am so used to people posting their random day to day things on social media (like what they ate, what new item they bought etc) that I don't even bother reading these updates anymore let alone respond to them. I am still old school and private in that respect. MOO.

 

[Newsjunkiejen]

I was just checking out Thread #1 of this discussion. I don't think I had discovered Websleuths at that time, so there are comments on there that I haven't yet read.

Something just stood out to me as strange..

A contributor references this article in the Washington Post:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/23/mariposa-family-death-mystery/

I didn't realise that it had taken 9hours to find the family. That might not seem unusual until you factor in these points:

• The bodies were found 1.5 miles from where their vehicle was parked.
• The bodies were found ON the trail.

Does this not strike anyone else as strange? Naturally, you'd think having located the vehicle, the logical thing to do when starting the search for the family would be to head down what was a clear path/trail/route.

At this point it was a missing person's report, not painstakingly combing the ground for evidence. What I mean by this is, knowing that there was a family with a young baby and dog potentially still alive out there (but maybe only just) you would've thought that they'd be moving at some pace along the paths to try and find them?

I get that if they knew at that point that the family were already dead and they were scouring the path for evidence and footprints, they'd have to move more cautiously and 'sweep' the area metre by metre for evidence.

To me it is perplexing for it to have taken 9hrs when they were located just 1.5 miles along the path from their vehicle.

This is NOT a criticism of LE. I am sure there's a totally logical, reasonable explanation as to why, but I wonder what hindered them for it to take that amount of time to discover the bodies.

MOO

 

[Pumphouse363]

A simple explanation is that this photo (and some others) were posted as "Instagram stories" or similar which automatically expire after 24 hours of posting. While the other photos provided to MSM were regular Instagram posts (which are not transient).
Instagram Posts vs Instagram Stories: Is One Better Than the Other?

I think of you post a comment on an Instagram story it is retained in message form on the recipients phone.

 

[Parsnip]

@Lex Parsimoniae , given your background, did you ever weigh in with your opinion on what might happen to a phone being carried by a person who was struck by ground current lightning?

 

[Pumphouse363]

I was just checking out Thread #1 of this discussion. I don't think I had discovered Websleuths at that time, so there are comments on there that I haven't yet read.

Something just stood out to me as strange..

A contributor references this article in the Washington Post:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/23/mariposa-family-death-mystery/

I didn't realise that it had taken 9hours to find the family. That might not seem unusual until you factor in these points:

• The bodies were found 1.5 miles from where their vehicle was parked.
• The bodies were found ON the trail.

Does this not strike anyone else as strange? Naturally, you'd think having located the vehicle, the logical thing to do when starting the search for the family would be to head down what was a clear path/trail/route.

At this point it was a missing person's report, not painstakingly combing the ground for evidence. What I mean by this is, knowing that there was a family with a young baby and dog potentially still alive out there (but maybe only just) you would've thought that they'd be moving at some pace along the paths to try and find them?

I get that if they knew at that point that the family were already dead and they were scouring the path for evidence and footprints, they'd have to move more cautiously and 'sweep' the area metre by metre for evidence.

To me it is perplexing for it to have taken 9hrs when they were located just 1.5 miles along the path from their vehicle.

This is NOT a criticism of LE. I am sure there's a totally logical, reasonable explanation as to why, but I wonder what hindered them for it to take that amount of time to discover the bodies.

MOO

The timeline of events shows it was 1.55am when they discovered the vehicle. I also thought the same as you when it was reportedly 9 hours later when they found the family. I considered that it would be dark and difficult terrain throughout the night but still think it’s a long time considering they were less than 2 miles from the car.

 

[Newsjunkiejen]

The timeline of events shows it was 1.55am when they discovered the vehicle. I also thought the same as you when it was reportedly 9 hours later when they found the family. I considered that it would be dark and difficult terrain throughout the night but still think it’s a long time considering they were less than 2 miles from the car.

Yes, it was about 2am that LE found J&E's vehicle, but the bodies were not discovered until approx. 11am.

Even in the dark, moving very slowly, a distance of 1.5 miles could be covered in 1-2hrs...

MOO

 

[Pumphouse363]

Pumphouse363, do you respond to every pic that your friends post on social media? And ask them for more details on where they are going that day with the item in the pic? I certainly don't. I guess I am so used to people posting their random day to day things on social media (like what they ate, what new item they bought etc) that I don't even bother reading these updates anymore let alone respond to them. I am still old school and private in that respect. MOO.

Yes I do actually as I only have close friends, colleagues and family on my social media accounts. I was making the point that if I saw a close friend, my boss or a family member post something I would certainly comment upon it.

 

[Pumphouse363]

Yes, it was about 2am that LE found J&E's vehicle, but the bodies were not discovered until approx. 11am.

Even in the dark, moving very slowly, a distance of 1.5 miles could be covered in 1-2hrs...

MOO

That’s one of the reasons I posted the question as to whether LE had followed the entire trail but I think it was removed by admin. If they saw footprints going towards Hites Cove they would have to follow all the way round the loop to reach the area where Jon, Ellen and Miju were discovered. Would they do that in the dark? Alternatively, they may have only gone so far on the HC trail and decided to take the SL trail from the same starting point and discovered the family just one and a half miles away. I wonder they didn’t send somebody in both directions but, I believe they said there were no footprints in the direction of SL - so no need for them to check in that direction. Another possibility is that they couldn’t see sufficiently in the dark and waited until daybreak to commence the search? MOO