CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #6

[10ofRods]

I agree, bikram sounds miserable! I always resisted my friends' invitations to bikram - but when I lived in SF bikram had a very big following.
Wasn't she an instructor? I would think to get an instructor certification she would need to have various basic experience in all the different types of yoga - eg hatha, ashtanga, vinyasa, bikram etc etc and then at least one actual specialization? MOO. How does it work? I don't know what it takes to officially become a yoga instructor.

There are no state requirements in California to be a yoga instructor. Some studios advertise certain certifications, but anyone can be a yoga instructor (I know several people who are yoga instructors - one has a degree in English; no certificate in yoga though).

Indeed, there are 3 different yoga instructors doing Zoom yoga at my workplace. None is certified in yoga - all are pretty good yoga instructors, though. When I took yoga back in the early 80s, my instructor was a Buddhist nun who took one student at a time. But she was not in any way certified nor did she have a business license of any kind (and that still happens).

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

I wonder how much over-activity and busyness affected the GCs choices that day. Life is overwhelmingly complicated for young couples today, with social media, multi-tasking, the need to do everything "right," jobs, hobbies, activities, rental properties, employees, nanny, dog. I see this in my 40 year old daughter. Her life is far, far more complicated than mine was at her age. She doesn't just live, she lives and works at hyper-speed, even on vacation. Very stressful.

On top of this, there is the natural adjustment and confusion when a baby enters the lives of two active adults who had been used to dramatic and self-centered lives. Add a third being to that mix. When I took my daughter at age 8 to the Pacific Coast of Guatemala where she almost drowned by a rogue wave, it was because I wanted to go there. She was just a passenger in my desires.

With all this activity and readjustment, the result is less brain room for rational, calm decisions and planning.

We'll never know why they made these choices. My opinions are from my own experience.

 

[jonjon747]

Many now start to blame the couple for lack of preparedness with reckless planning but I'd like to question the LE for lacking transparency with every little details they have or they know.
They were showing the video footage of SLT to convey how steep it was by tilting the camera view angle to the max. I couldn't stop laughing at that.

Where are all the details for tracing method used to track the family hiking route?
I haven't heard a single explanation why or how they came to the conclusion that the family went around the loop?

All they've mentioned was JG planned it on his mobile app and they started out heading in that direction and ended up in SLT without any water left.

But how did they know that the family went down by the Merced river and kept heading east toward the SLT?

Did LE verify and confirm the family's hike activity in between the starting and end point?

 

[lotus777]

I agree, bikram sounds miserable! I always resisted my friends' invitations to bikram - but when I lived in SF bikram had a very big following.
Wasn't she an instructor? I would think to get an instructor certification she would need to have various basic experience in all the different types of yoga - eg hatha, ashtanga, vinyasa, bikram etc etc and then at least one actual specialization? MOO. How does it work? I don't know what it takes to officially become a yoga instructor.

I did yoga teacher training (one of the oldest/most established in the country, associated with a university) and hot yoga wasn't part of it. Hot yoga isn't part of traditional/classical yoga...it's more something that the West added when yoga became more of a fitness craze.

 

[lotus777]

There are no state requirements in California to be a yoga instructor. Some studios advertise certain certifications, but anyone can be a yoga instructor (I know several people who are yoga instructors - one has a degree in English; no certificate in yoga though).

Indeed, there are 3 different yoga instructors doing Zoom yoga at my workplace. None is certified in yoga - all are pretty good yoga instructors, though. When I took yoga back in the early 80s, my instructor was a Buddhist nun who took one student at a time. But she was not in any way certified nor did she have a business license of any kind (and that still happens).

Technically, to be legitimate as a yoga instructor you need to have completed a teacher training certified by the Yoga Alliance, and to complete the requirements necessary to be certified by the Alliance yourself (this involves a minimum number of instructing hours and continuing education hours over a specific period of time). Plenty of people teach without being trained or certified, but I would not want to take one of their classes. (I say this as someone who's been doing yoga for 15+ years with a teacher with 30+ years of experience, as well as being a Yoga Alliance certified teacher myself.)

ETA: So anyone can call themselves a yoga instructor, but it is something that does require training to teach responsibly. Your instructors may be great, but I wouldn't suggest to most people to take a yoga class with an untrained instructor.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Many now start to blame the couple for lack of preparedness with reckless planning but I'd like to question the LE for lacking transparency with every little details they have or they know.
They were showing the video footage of SLT to convey how steep it was by tilting the camera view angle to the max. I couldn't stop laughing at that.

Where are all the details for tracing method used to track the family hiking route?
I haven't heard a single explanation why or how they came to the conclusion that the family went around the loop?

All they've mentioned was JG planned it on his mobile app and they started out heading in that direction and ended up in SLT without any water left.

But how did they know that the family went down by the Merced river and kept heading east toward the SLT?

Did LE verify and confirm the family's hike activity in between the starting and end point?

I’d be interested to know the details of the investigation, but I think that’s up to the families if they care to share them.

Sheriff Briese gave a long and extensive list of experts that worked on this case for two months.

JG mapped the route, SAR tracked the family on it: the loop is not in dispute. They chose not to share all the details of their investigation, but mentioned the families were fully informed.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

I was thinking about San Francisco this morning, due to my recent reflections on the values and lifestyle of that city, and an element of yoga came to mind: bikram yoga, also called “hot yoga”.

Ellen as a practitioner of yoga was surely familiar with Bikram yoga, where one sustains temperatures of 105 degrees for 90 minutes in a closed room while performing yoga.

She may or may not have been an expert in bikram yoga per se, but as a yoga person she surely had some level of familiarity or experience in it.

What if the weather forecast did not phase her because she was accustomed to those temps?
What if Jon had participated in a few of those classes with her? And he too was not phased?

It could be one reason that they thought it would be ok to hike in those same high temps.

This does not explain taking the baby and the dog because young children (let alone babies) should not participate in the temperatures of bikram.
Bikram Yoga for Kids — Bikram Yoga Nairobi

But perhaps it explains their lack of preoccupation about the high temps before setting out?

moo and truly just a theory

Now that's interesting, something new, and plausible.

 

[ItalyReader]

I did yoga teacher training (one of the oldest/most established in the country, associated with a university) and hot yoga wasn't part of it. Hot yoga isn't part of traditional/classical yoga...it's more something that the West added when yoga became more of a fitness craze.

Interesting, thanks!
In any case, she had to know about it because it was well known in San Francisco. I knew about it and I was not a teacher, just a class attendee in various yoga classes around town.
Bikram people were kind of the yoga equivalent of Soulcycle people - anyway, it was a thing and I’m sure she knew about it even if she hadn’t tried it.
But what if she had?
MOO

 

[Yvettea]

If anyone knows, what did the sheriff mean by point to point mapping? He said when JG mapped the route on August 14 he used point to point mapping. Seems like an odd detail to disclose, and didn’t bother to name the app.

ETA: as an aside the sheriff said the keys were on the dirt by “them” (26:10) Rather vague.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

If anyone knows, what did the sheriff mean by point to point mapping? He said when JG mapped the route on August 14 he used point to point mapping. Seems like an odd detail to disclose, and didn’t bother to name the app.

Google says that "point to point mapping" means measuring distances between points on a route. Which would indicate Jon knew the distance of the loop. I do not know if that's what Sheriff Briese meant.

 

[10ofRods]

Technically, to be legitimate as a yoga instructor you need to have completed a teacher training certified by the Yoga Alliance, and to complete the requirements necessary to be certified by the Alliance yourself (this involves a minimum number of instructing hours and continuing education hours over a specific period of time). Plenty of people teach without being trained or certified, but I would not want to take one of their classes. (I say this as someone who's been doing yoga for 15+ years with a teacher with 30+ years of experience, as well as being a Yoga Alliance certified teacher myself.)

ETA: So anyone can call themselves a yoga instructor, but it is something that does require training to teach responsibly. Your instructors may be great, but I wouldn't suggest to most people to take a yoga class with an untrained instructor.

To me, the word "legitimate" means "legal." So I was just talking about the legal requirements for being a yoga teacher in California (and indeed, it seems, in the US). It is not illegal for someone to declare themselves a yoga teacher or start a yoga school.

I don't think the Yoga Alliance is the only certifying body, and I think tons of yoga studies do not have a single instructor certified by the Alliance. But yes, it would be good for people to look for a certified instructor.

Personally, I think that one of the instructors at our college (who took college classes in Yoga and has degrees in both physical therapy. and kinesiology) is as good as an Alliance-certified person - and would probably look for PT training, myself (many issues with my spine).

Congrats on doing your training responsibly - I wish more people would do it. We've got "pop up" yoga classes all over my town (all along the beach, in the parks) and I do wonder, when I see what they're doing, if they are certified. My own classes focused as much on meditation as on Hatha Yoga and I've never found a class that I felt was as helpful. I have not been as consistent in my practice as I could be - but I'm still trying.

Hilaria Baldwin comes to mind as an example of a completely untrained "Yoga instructor." Not only that, but the person who taught her (in 2 weeks, I believe) was also not certified and was likely a cult leader (and she herself was sued when a student badly injured themselves in one of her classes).

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

I am a bit confused, and was hoping someone here could clarify something. We die at body temp of approximately 105 degrees, correct? So how could anyone exert themselves in environmental conditions over 100 degrees, and not succumb? Even sitting out in a 105 + degree environment, with no protection from the sun, WITHOUT exerting yourself would kill you after a certain amount of time, wouldn't it? And at some point, having enough water doesn't matter, hyperthermia sets in. Same idea when it is cold, hypothermia sets in and people succumb? Philip Kreycik went on a very challenging run in extreme heat and succumbed this past year. So incredibly tragic, praying these cases educate others who love the outdoors.

According to the heat stroke info I read, it is all about the balance between the heating effects (ambient heat, radiant heat, exertional heating) and your body's ability to cool itself by sweating. If your body's cooling is unable to keep up with the heating effects, your internal temperature keeps rising. MOO

 

[RedHaus]

Yes. This article is very long but there's alot of information here about heatwave related deaths this year.
Hidden Toll of the Northwest Heat Wave: Hundreds of Extra Deaths
CDC graphs
View attachment 318398 View attachment 318399
ETA summer heatwave map of the Northwest
View attachment 318401

RSBM
Thank you, @everybodhi.

This information needs to be broadcast through a loudspeaker through every channel we have available, worldwide. With global warming upon us, we humans, and many species of animals, are so much more vulnerable to heat related crises, ranging from heat stroke deaths to dwindling water supplies to diminishing availability of food and shelter. This sounds dark and foreboding, but I fear we are at a tipping point as a species and our fate is quite vulnerable.

If there is any good from this case, it is that it may shake us all to our cores... at least anyone who is aware of this or other heat related deaths.

The best way I can think of to channel my anger, sadness and helplessness I feel for this family and their deaths, is to share this new reality with others.

 

[sfinkz]

I wonder how much over-activity and busyness affected the GCs choices that day. Life is overwhelmingly complicated for young couples today, with social media, multi-tasking, the need to do everything "right," jobs, hobbies, activities, rental properties, employees, nanny, dog. I see this in my 40 year old daughter. Her life is far, far more complicated than mine was at her age. She doesn't just live, she lives and works at hyper-speed, even on vacation. Very stressful.

On top of this, there is the natural adjustment and confusion when a baby enters the lives of two active adults who had been used to dramatic and self-centered lives. Add a third being to that mix. When I took my daughter at age 8 to the Pacific Coast of Guatemala where she almost drowned by a rogue wave, it was because I wanted to go there. She was just a passenger in my desires.

With all this activity and readjustment, the result is less brain room for rational, calm decisions and planning.

We'll never know why they made these choices. My opinions are from my own experience.

True that. It was remarkable to learn of their many achievements and life-changing transitions in only the recent past since relocating to Mariposa. More extraordinary, perhaps, is the ‘busyness’ of their evolving lives did not create conflict in their relationship. Forever together.

 

[lotus777]

To me, the word "legitimate" means "legal." So I was just talking about the legal requirements for being a yoga teacher in California (and indeed, it seems, in the US). It is not illegal for someone to declare themselves a yoga teacher or start a yoga school.

I don't think the Yoga Alliance is the only certifying body, and I think tons of yoga studies do not have a single instructor certified by the Alliance. But yes, it would be good for people to look for a certified instructor.

Personally, I think that one of the instructors at our college (who took college classes in Yoga and has degrees in both physical therapy. and kinesiology) is as good as an Alliance-certified person - and would probably look for PT training, myself (many issues with my spine).

Congrats on doing your training responsibly - I wish more people would do it. We've got "pop up" yoga classes all over my town (all along the beach, in the parks) and I do wonder, when I see what they're doing, if they are certified. My own classes focused as much on meditation as on Hatha Yoga and I've never found a class that I felt was as helpful. I have not been as consistent in my practice as I could be - but I'm still trying.

Hilaria Baldwin comes to mind as an example of a completely untrained "Yoga instructor." Not only that, but the person who taught her (in 2 weeks, I believe) was also not certified and was likely a cult leader (and she herself was sued when a student badly injured themselves in one of her classes).

The Yoga Alliance is the only certifying body in the U.S.

I used "legitimate" not to indicate legality but "conforming to recognized principles or accepted rules and standards" (Merriam-Webster). No, it's not illegal to declare oneself a yoga instructor if one is untrained. But I'd be very surprised if "tons" of yoga studios in the U.S. don't have a single instructor certified by the Alliance.

Good point about the instructor with degrees in PT and kinesiology. A requirement for Yoga Alliance certification is instruction hours in anatomy and physiology.

 

[ItalyReader]

To me, the word "legitimate" means "legal." So I was just talking about the legal requirements for being a yoga teacher in California (and indeed, it seems, in the US). It is not illegal for someone to declare themselves a yoga teacher or start a yoga school.

I don't think the Yoga Alliance is the only certifying body, and I think tons of yoga studies do not have a single instructor certified by the Alliance. But yes, it would be good for people to look for a certified instructor.

Personally, I think that one of the instructors at our college (who took college classes in Yoga and has degrees in both physical therapy. and kinesiology) is as good as an Alliance-certified person - and would probably look for PT training, myself (many issues with my spine).

Congrats on doing your training responsibly - I wish more people would do it. We've got "pop up" yoga classes all over my town (all along the beach, in the parks) and I do wonder, when I see what they're doing, if they are certified. My own classes focused as much on meditation as on Hatha Yoga and I've never found a class that I felt was as helpful. I have not been as consistent in my practice as I could be - but I'm still trying.

Hilaria Baldwin comes to mind as an example of a completely untrained "Yoga instructor." Not only that, but the person who taught her (in 2 weeks, I believe) was also not certified and was likely a cult leader (and she herself was sued when a student badly injured themselves in one of her classes).

yikes. Yes extremely unregulated! In any case she had to know if it and I’d bet she had done a class. MOO

 

[ItalyReader]

Google says that "point to point mapping" means measuring distances between points on a route. Which would indicate Jon knew the distance of the loop. I do not know if that's what Sheriff Briese meant.

yes i think he said “way points” - I took this to mean he was explicitly plotting the route he wanted - the route around the 8mile loop.

It means they didn’t do the loop by chance. He intended to do the loop.

(perhaps not knowing of altitude changes and temps, perhaps. I can leave that possibility open.)

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

Google says that "point to point mapping" means measuring distances between points on a route. Which would indicate Jon knew the distance of the loop. I do not know if that's what Sheriff Briese meant.

He made waypoints, probably to mark the intersections he needed to find. The GPS in his phone (presumably) would show him when he reached the turn he needed to make off the Hites Cove OHV rd, and when he had reached the intersection with the Savage Lundy Trail. It would tell him the distance as the crow flies to his truck, but of course there were a bunch of switchbacks to get there, so it was really a lot farther. If he made a lot of waypoints it would give more accurate distance info, but from the sheriff's comments it sounds like he just made a few, which would help keep him from getting lost, but according to the sheriff didn't give him distance or altitude information. Here's what the sheriff said: "We know while using the app, he only entered “way points” or point to point mapping, although this does not calculate the exact trail mileage or elevation changes. This was not uncommon; Jonathan used a few different trail-mapping apps and frequently took hikes."

 

[RedHaus]

yes i think he said “way points” - I took this to mean he was explicitly plotting the route he wanted - the route around the 8mile loop. It means they didn’t do the loop by chance. He intended to do the loop. (perhaps not knowing of altitude changes and temps, perhaps. I can leave that possibility open.)

Agree, @ItalyReader.

When I heard the Sheriff say this, I finally let go of my perception the family could not possibly have intended to do the loop; that they had just gone down the S-L trail.

 

[RedHaus]

ETA: as an aside the sheriff said the keys were on the dirt by “them” (26:10) Rather vague.

RSBM
I agree, @Han. I heard the same thing you did, that the keys were with them - at least that is how I interpreted his response to the audience question.

I also heard yesterday from the Sheriff that the family was together. It makes me wonder where the initial 'EC was 30 yards/meters (?) from JG' data came from?