GUILTY CA - Lawrence 'Larry' King, 15, fatally shot at Oxnard school, 12 Feb 2008

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  • #181
Nova said:
I hoped the DA asked the "family counselor" whether he thinks it's also okay for girls to shoot boys who make suggestive comments.
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I question why this witness felt the need to insert himself into the case after he read a newspaper article on it and he decided that he would have answers as to why the defendant shot Larry,

the state needs to start asking questions such as the one you posed, that you do not solve the issues of difference with murder, otherwise the defendant is going to get convicted on manslaughter charges,
 
  • #182
joe jones said:
I question why this witness felt the need to insert himself into the case after he read a newspaper article on it and he decided that he would have answers as to why the defendant shot Larry,

the state needs to start asking questions such as the one you posed, that you do not solve the issues of difference with murder, otherwise the defendant is going to get convicted on manslaughter charges,
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Here's a letter-to-the-editor of the Ventura County Star from the therapist, Stephen Irshay, that is unrelated to this case but decidedly pro-gay marriage:

http://www.vcstar.com/news/2011/apr/18/attack-marriage/?print=1


I was a little suspicious of the "family counselor" label since that sometimes includes members of the "gay cure" movement. But Irshay is a specialist in children with disabilities, so maybe he just saw a 14-year-old being railroaded by the system and thought somebody had to stand up.
 
  • #183
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  • #186
joe jones said:
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/l...tudent-Nears-Closing-Arguments-127590058.html

defence to rest Friday
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If that NBC Los Angeles article is any indication, the defense did a great job. The "story" of the trial is that Larry King sexually harassed McInernay to the breaking point.

Gerry Spence, the famed Wyoming defense counsel, writes and teaches that juries need narratives they can grasp and trials are won by whichever side tells its story most compellingly.

Of course, they're right at the end of the defenses case-in-chief. In the past I've seen media write from the p.o.v. of whichever side was presenting, so that their articles were pro-prosecution, then pro-defense, then pro-prosecution again during rebuttal.
 
  • #187
Nova said:
If that NBC Los Angeles article is any indication, the defense did a great job. The "story" of the trial is that Larry King sexually harassed McInernay to the breaking point.

Gerry Spence, the famed Wyoming defense counsel, writes and teaches that juries need narratives they can grasp and trials are won by whichever side tells its story most compellingly.

Of course, they're right at the end of the defenses case-in-chief. In the past I've seen media write from the p.o.v. of whichever side was presenting, so that their articles were pro-prosecution, then pro-defense, then pro-prosecution again during rebuttal.
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I think the defence has done a fantastic job, the prosecution a poor one, I have doubts that he will be convicted on the murder charge,

the defence were able to get witness after witness to say Larry brought it on himself, even though the most they could say about Larry was he wore heels and makeup, and nail polish occasionally, and he made comments to some of the students (including the defendant) about being attracted to them, not much when you consider the defendant shot him in the head twice,
 
  • #188
joe jones said:
I think the defence has done a fantastic job, the prosecution a poor one, I have doubts that he will be convicted on the murder charge,

the defence were able to get witness after witness to say Larry brought it on himself, even though the most they could say about Larry was he wore heels and makeup, and nail polish occasionally, and he made comments to some of the students (including the defendant) about being attracted to them, not much when you consider the defendant shot him in the head twice,
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The defense seemed to be going for a manslaughter conviction. At this point, I hope they get even that.

I always thought it was unfortunate to make a hate-crime example out of a 14-year-old. This could have been handled in the juvenile system and McInernay might have actually done more time. Oy!
 
  • #189
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  • #191
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/ventura_county&id=8304243

I am angered greatly by the fact that the victim has been lost in this trial, lost by the state who has done a poor job of trying this case, I accept the defence would blame Larry for his own murder, they are doing the job that is required of them in trying to get there client off from a murder charge and reduce it down to manslaughter

it is the state who has not fought hard for Larry, we have heard a week of how abused the defendant was, what a bad childhood he had, we have heard nothing about why Larry was removed from his parents and was living in some type of group home, we have heard nothing of who Larry was and the bullying he received,

the defence have tried to make out a few incidents where Larry made comments to the defendants into an excuse for murder,

I hope the state has some rebuttal, but I feel that even that won't undo the great defence that has been put on by the defendants team, he really lucked out when he got his defence team as they have done one of the best defence jobs I have seen in a while
 
  • #192
joe jones said:
http://www.minotdailynews.com/page/...1/Kids-shouldn-t-be-tried-in-adult-court.html

I agree with the sentiment that he should have been tried as a juvenile, still think he committed premediatated first degree murder,
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I concur on both counts.

But in terms of penalty, if McInernay is convicted of manslaughter and remains in prison until he is 40, I'll be satisfied with that. (Furious at the verdict, but satisfied with the sentence.) I think it's too early to decide he needs to be locked up forever.
 
  • #193
joe jones said:
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/ventura_county&id=8304243

I am angered greatly by the fact that the victim has been lost in this trial, lost by the state who has done a poor job of trying this case, I accept the defence would blame Larry for his own murder, they are doing the job that is required of them in trying to get there client off from a murder charge and reduce it down to manslaughter

it is the state who has not fought hard for Larry, we have heard a week of how abused the defendant was, what a bad childhood he had, we have heard nothing about why Larry was removed from his parents and was living in some type of group home, we have heard nothing of who Larry was and the bullying he received,

the defence have tried to make out a few incidents where Larry made comments to the defendants into an excuse for murder,

I hope the state has some rebuttal, but I feel that even that won't undo the great defence that has been put on by the defendants team, he really lucked out when he got his defence team as they have done one of the best defence jobs I have seen in a while
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Victims are usually lost to some extent in criminal trials because the trial isn't really about the victim. (And in this case, it doesn't help that the victim's family behaved so badly that they were barred from the courtroom.)

And unless the prosecution can convince the judge they have bearing on Larry's alleged sexual harassment of his killer, I doubt hate crimes not perpetrated by McIernay would be deemed relevant. (If I were the DA, I'd at least give that a shot. Argue that the defense opened the door by discussing King's alleged "acting out," and the State should be allowed to show that King was merely a child dealing with constant bullying. If the judge were convinced, then the prosecution could make its rebuttal a saga of the victim's woes.)

But Larry hasn't been lost; worse, he's been put on trial himself.

I don't know what's happening in this country. I suppose it should be noted that the area where the trial is being held is a suburb, not Los Angeles proper. Like most suburbs, the population tends to be more conservative.

But these "homosexual panic" (i.e., the defendant was so disgusted by the queer that the defendant couldn't help himself) defenses used to be common--and commonly effective. In the late 80s, there was a case in Texas where two killers went to a park restroom known as a gay cruising area. Once there they abducted two gay men at gunpoint, drove them elsewhere, robbed and then murdered them. They were found guilty of only manslaughter, the judge sentenced them to the minimum two years, and APOLOGIZED in open court for having to do that!

Then juries began to lose sympathy with the notion that homosexuality is so repugnant that "real men" lose all self-control. In the Sally Jesse Raphael talk show case (straight guest murdered gay guest after the latter confessed to having a crush on the former on the show), the jury rejected the "panic" defense and convicted the killer of murder. A presumably conservative Wyoming jury also dismissed the panic defense in the Matthew Shepherd case.

Gay panic defense - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Why are we going backwards?
 
  • #194
I had a vague memory of the discussion here right after Lawrence King was murdered, so I went back to the first few pages of this thread.

The victim was blamed from the get-go: by other students in media interviews and even by a few posters here at WS. An altercation in which King was taunted by McInernay and a gang of boys was described as Larry "bullying" the straight boys.

But after years of investigation all the defense has actually found were a few sarcastic and flippant remarks by the victim, aimed at his tormenters. And yet the defense seems to have inflated those remarks into a homosexual-panic defense.

Poor Larry. That kid never caught a break when he was alive, and getting murdered hasn't changed things.
 
  • #195
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...i-wanted-to-kill-him-accused-told-expert.html

so according to the defendant he killed Larry because he made one small comment, what he appeared to be really angry about was not doing well at school and his father being on his case,

and he was fully aware of what he intended to do, concealing the gun in a towel, I don't agree he dissociated, he took the gun to school intending to kill Larry
 
  • #196
  • #197
joe jones said:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...i-wanted-to-kill-him-accused-told-expert.html

so according to the defendant he killed Larry because he made one small comment, what he appeared to be really angry about was not doing well at school and his father being on his case,

and he was fully aware of what he intended to do, concealing the gun in a towel, I don't agree he dissociated, he took the gun to school intending to kill Larry
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So the murderer premeditated the killing, then changed his mind, then "snapped" and went through with the killing anyway. And the only evidence of this is what the killer supposedly told a hired gun, paid by the defense.

How convenient.
 
  • #198
Nova said:
So the murderer premeditated the killing, then changed his mind, then "snapped" and went through with the killing anyway. And the only evidence of this is what the killer supposedly told a hired gun, paid by the defense.

How convenient.
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from further reading the defendant has said he would kill any man who touched him, and he was disgusted by Larrys comments to him,

now whether that was because he was sexually abused or because he is homophobic we don't know, the sexual abuse allegations are not proven and some family members who testified say they did not believe them,

the defence has done a very good job of nullifying the premeditation, the state should have brought this out more in there CIC
 
  • #199
That he was sexually abused himself, doesn't excuse a defendant who himself molests a child.

Why should it mitigate a hate crime?
 
  • #200
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