GUILTY CA - Lawrence 'Larry' King, 15, fatally shot at Oxnard school, 12 Feb 2008

[Nova]

Prosecutors have enormous discretion. But they are also bound by bar association ethics. Guidelines are provided by the statutes, the case law, and his/her judgment/experience. The OVERWHELMING case law would suggest against charging a 14 year old as an adult. Based on your last sentence, I guess every plea bargain accepted by a prosecutor is an ethical violation?

Good point and great example, PW. I shall have to ask a lawyer what the ethical obligations are.

At the risk of repeating myself, I AGREE with you that 14-year-olds should be sent to juvenile court.

Clearly there are instances where a prosecutor decides s/he cannot PROVE the facts that would justify a higher charge, in which cases s/he can charge or plea bargain the count s/he can prove. (After all, lesser counts frequently include some but not all of the elements of higher counts, so it isn't lying to argue for the lesser charge.)

Yes, I see I may be contradicting what I posted before. I'll ask a lawyer.

 

[gxm]

I"m sorry, gxm. If I saw the posts where you said you would recuse yourself from this case, I had forgotten them when I posted.

I think the prosecutor is in something of a bind here. Once the decision to try as an adult is made, the facts dictate the charge and the facts pretty clearly indicate first-degree (premeditated) murder.

I don't know for sure, but I'm not sure prosecutorial ethics allow a DA to say, "I don't think we can get a conviction on 1st degree; let's charge 2nd degree because we're more likely to get that." Not unless there is a legitimate issue as to the facts. (Of course, this is in theory. In practice, who knows?)

Arguing that a 14-year-old lacks the mental facility for true "premeditation" might carry some weight with me personally, but it would also call into question the entire system of charging young teens as an adult.

It will be interesting to see what the DA does next. Since none of the jurors seemed to be in favor of acquittal, it seems very unlikely that the prosecutor will decline to retry.

BBM.

No problem, Nova. I was just reiterating. The folks on this thread have shown a level of tolerance I am not used to when I defend young criminals. I'm pretty much against charging teens as adults across the board unless there is a long, documented history of criminal violence. IMO their brains are not fully developed and they can not be held to the same standards that adults are held to. Further, I believe that young people can be rehabilitated, and that this is the time to get these kids the help and guidance they need.

Again, you folks have been tolerant as well as kind, and I thank you.

 

[Nova]

BBM.

No problem, Nova. I was just reiterating. The folks on this thread have shown a level of tolerance I am not used to when I defend young criminals. I'm pretty much against charging teens as adults across the board unless there is a long, documented history of criminal violence. IMO their brains are not fully developed and they can not be held to the same standards that adults are held to. Further, I believe that young people can be rehabilitated, and that this is the time to get these kids the help and guidance they need.

Again, you folks have been tolerant as well as kind, and I thank you.

You're welcome and I absolutely agree with you. I never wanted McInernay tried as an adult in the first place.

And although I fear that any stay in an adult prison will just make a hard-core convict out of him, I don't actually have a problem with the length of a manslaughter sentence.

What does bother me very much is our legal system continuing to support the idea that if a gay man (or boy in this case) does anything that can be construed as a sexual overture, then a straight man (also a boy in this case) loses his reason and can't control himself.

 

[joe jones]

http://www.southfloridagaynews.com/...new-trial-in-california-gay-teen-killing.html

Oct 5th hearing to decide on retrial and what charges may now be

 

[Nova]

http://www.southfloridagaynews.com/...new-trial-in-california-gay-teen-killing.html

Oct 5th hearing to decide on retrial and what charges may now be

I did ask my friend who is a CA juvenile public defender what are the ethical limits to prosecutorial discretion in deciding what to charge, but she says she doesn't know. She's never had a case where that was an issue.

 

[Allusonz]

A couple of thoughts

The first being that I am seeing an increase in young people committing murder. While I don't believe that a 14 year old should be put into an adult system I do believe this was planned. I don't pretend to be an expert on what should/should not happen here I will hope this young man does receive help

Secondly, I am truly becomming weary of the victims being made out to be the bad guys. Yes I do understand that he was probably not perfect. Who is? At the end of the day though he did not deserve being murdered over "whom he is"

 

[Nova]

A couple of thoughts

The first being that I am seeing an increase in young people committing murder. While I don't believe that a 14 year old should be put into an adult system I do believe this was planned. I don't pretend to be an expert on what should/should not happen here I will hope this young man does receive help

Secondly, I am truly becomming weary of the victims being made out to be the bad guys. Yes I do understand that he was probably not perfect. Who is? At the end of the day though he did not deserve being murdered over "whom he is"

Obviously I wasn't in the courtroom. But based on media accounts, I don't think Larry King did anything but "smart off" in a rather sad, defensive attempt to fend off a bully. Whether that was perceived as "sexual harassment" by McInernay, I don't know and I don't much care.

I don't for a moment believe McInernay lost his ability to make conscious decisions for 24 hours.

 

[Allusonz]

Obviously I wasn't in the courtroom. But based on media accounts, I don't think Larry King did anything but "smart off" in a rather sad, defensive attempt to fend off a bully. Whether that was perceived as "sexual harassment" by McInernay, I don't know and I don't much care.

I don't for a moment believe McInernay lost his ability to make conscious decisions for 24 hours.

BBM

I must agree

 

[Whisperer]

This has been covered here because it is considered *local*. I had no idea it wasn't getting national coverage. terrible story.

Whoah! I had no idea this happened. My daughter went to that school. It was a great public school. Why a child from Camarillo was attending there is a surprise to me...for that is a different school district. I bet there is a loud roar about him being in Oxnard when he should have been in Camarillo.

If he would have been in Camarillo, this all could have been avoided. How sad!

 

[Nova]

Whoah! I had no idea this happened. My daughter went to that school. It was a great public school. Why a child from Camarillo was attending there is a surprise to me...for that is a different school district. I bet there is a loud roar about him being in Oxnard when he should have been in Camarillo.

If he would have been in Camarillo, this all could have been avoided. How sad!

I'm not sure which kid was from Camarillo, but I believe Larry King (the victim) was living in a group home at the time of the murder. Maybe that put him in a different school district.

 

[LCoastMom]

It cost the Ventura County Sheriff's Department about $120,000 for additional security during the Brandon McInerney murder trial in Chatsworth.

If there is a new trial, where it will be held is not certain. A hearing is scheduled for Oct. 5 to determine the next step in the legal process.

Ventura County Senior Deputy District Attorney Maeve Fox said it's likely any pretrial motions would have to be heard again, including the one to move the case out of Ventura County because of media coverage here.

Fox argued that because there was intense media coverage of the case in Southern California and around the country, it might as well be held in Ventura County.

"There isn't any place we are going to go that they have had any less exposure than they have had here," she said.

http://www.vcstar.com/news/2011/sep/16/mcinerney-trial-security-cost-120000/

 

[joe jones]

tomorrow we will find out what charges if any will be refiled, and when is there is to be one a new trial may happen

I think 1st degree murder charges in juvenile court should be filed

 

[iluvmua]

20/20 will be airing a broadcast about this case on friday.

 

[joe jones]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...up-no-second-trial-in-larry-king-slaying.html

gay rights group opines for a plea deal, and once again I read that the defendants age was a factor for many in deliberations and may have been one of the reasons they could not reach consensus,

they should not have ever been discussing why he was charged as an adult not a juvenile, that was not part of there remit, his age may have been considered but not the adult over juvenile charges

once again a jury went beyond what they were instructed to do, they were to consider the charges as instructed

 

[joe jones]

http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2011/09/16/Two_Jurors_in_McInerney_Trial_Speak/

more jurors not following there oath, seems the issue of adult v juvenile charges was a huge factor, and they should not have even been talking about that, the charges as filed were and should have been there only concern

 

[joe jones]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/eighth-grade-shooting-larry-king-brandon-mcinerney-boys/story?id=14666577

will be retried as an adult on same charges, I agree with same charges but think it should be moved to juvenile court

 

[joe jones]

compare and contrast the photos in the above article, I wonder if that is the defendants mugshot,

I have not seen these photos before, in these they look like teenagers, in fact the defendant looks older than his years if that was taken when he was 14

 

[gxm]

I can't believe that they are retrying him as an adult. IMO, it's too much to ask of a jury to not consider the defendant's young age at the time of the crime. IIRC, he had only just turned 14. If it's another hung jury, or he is convicted of manslaughter, the prosecution will only have themselves to blame.

 

[joe jones]

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/10/05/justice/california-gay-student-murder/index.html?hpt=ju_c1

I hope this time round the Judge and the state reminds the new jurors that they cannot consider things other than the evidence, that him being charged as an adult is not to be considered,

 

[Nova]

I must not understand how the hate crime legislation is written in California. Maybe somebody can help me.

Why was the prosecution trying to prove the killer associated with white supremacist groups? Do you have to hate all minorities to be guilty of a hate crime against one of them?

Why were the jurors unanimously convinced there was no hate crime here? Didn't the DEFENSE prove the victim was killed because McInernay "couldn't deal" with King being gay?