GUILTY CA - Madyson Middleton, 8, Santa Cruz, 26 July 2015 - #3 *Arrest*

[blue22]

Regarding the harming of the dog. I hope that I'm not stepping on toes to say this, but in some cultures it's not really a big deal. Pets and animals in general are looked at very different. I have been on mission in The Philippines and Malaysia and I was shocked to see people kicking, throwing, (etc) their pets. It was no big deal, not considered abuse at all. Now, I'm not painting with broad strokes. Perhaps, it was just what I encountered in specific areas and not indicative of the whole country. I'm also not making excuses for AJ, his mom, or anyone else. I just simply have a feeling that cultural differences might play a huge part in not identifying warning signs. (That's totally JMO.)

 

[katydid23]

I also want to know more about the reports that he waited for a girl outside of her piano lesson. Because just that, in itself, does not necessarily indicate mental health problems. It sounds kind of like normal teen behavior, depending upon his level of friendship with the girl. JMO

 

[borndem]

I do wonder if he had this event planned out, knowing that he might be home by himself, or if the opportunity just suddenly happened -- it doesn't matter, I guess, just wondering. It still gives me chills when I compare it to the Gabriel Gaeta case -- the young men (being nice here) had known these little girls for months or years; the girls were friendly and at ease around them, and they trusted them and were assaulted and killed by them. Both cases occurred in "small" places -- in the mobile home court, which was a world unto itself and seemingly a nice place for kids and adults; and the artists apartments, again a world unto itself -- both seemingly safe and everyone knew everyone, at least on sight. Is there nowhere we can feel safe about our children and grandchildren? SMH. No, there isn't.

 

[LinasK]

I maintain parents are the first line of defense. A parent who is involved in and monitoring their kid's activities and knows what's going on and stays engaged, is a parent who has an opportunity to see patterns and troubling behavioral signs.

There are parents who either don't know what to look for, don't care, or think their kid could never be a danger to themselves or others.

Agreed, that's why I'm a helicopter parent rather than a free-range parent.

 

[LinasK]

The system in the U.S. doesn't make it easy on parents who have identified issues with their child and are trying to get help. A kid can't be arrested when they haven't broken the law. And I know it can be extremely difficult to get a loved one into an appropriate facility and to keep them there for what might be longer-term treatment, perhaps even more so if that child is over the age of 18. What's the answer?

Still, with those hurdles, at least a parent who is aware is a parent who can try to get help. All one can do is try their best. Better than a parent who never knows what their kid is up to.

:clap::clap::clap::goodpost:

 

[LinasK]

Regarding the harming of the dog. I hope that I'm not stepping on toes to say this, but in some cultures it's not really a big deal. Pets and animals in general are looked at very different. I have been on mission in The Philippines and Malaysia and I was shocked to see people kicking, throwing, (etc) their pets. It was no big deal, not considered abuse at all. Now, I'm not painting with broad strokes. Perhaps, it was just what I encountered in specific areas and not indicative of the whole country. I'm also not making excuses for AJ, his mom, or anyone else. I just simply have a feeling that cultural differences might play a huge part in not identifying warning signs. (That's totally JMO.)

Within his family, perhaps. I'm not sure how much monitoring his mother did of him, but in Santa Cruz in general animal abuse would not be tolerated. It's a very Liberal, peace-loving society.

 

[LinasK]

I do wonder if he had this event planned out, knowing that he might be home by himself, or if the opportunity just suddenly happened -- it doesn't matter, I guess, just wondering. It still gives me chills when I compare it to the Gabriel Gaeta case -- the young men (being nice here) had known these little girls for months or years; the girls were friendly and at ease around them, and they trusted them and were assaulted and killed by them. Both cases occurred in "small" places -- in the mobile home court, which was a world unto itself and seemingly a nice place for kids and adults; and the artists apartments, again a world unto itself -- both seemingly safe and everyone knew everyone, at least on sight. Is there nowhere we can feel safe about our children and grandchildren? SMH. No, there isn't.

BBM. That's why you don't leave them to play outside unsupervised. They can play without supervision most likely in a fenced backyard or in the house. There is no harm done from helicopter parenting.

 

[blue22]

Within his family, perhaps. I'm not sure how much monitoring his mother did of him, but in Santa Cruz in general animal abuse would not be tolerated. It's a very Liberal, peace-loving society.

Sorry, I was never suggesting people in Santa Cruz would look the other way. I was saying within his family, it could have not been considered a warning sign.
But we don't know much about the incident, who knew, what happened, when, how, etc. We don't know who said what and how it was communicated to others. Sometimes, when people talk about incidents by the time it gets to people who can do something...it's been watered down to not sound serious, so the person won't get in trouble. (Not saying that's what happened here. I've just seen that happen in situations regarding juveniles before.)

 

[bluesneakers]

Sorry, I was never suggesting people in Santa Cruz would look the other way. I was saying within his family, it could have not been considered a warning sign.
But we don't know much about the incident, who knew, what happened, when, how, etc. We don't know who said what and how it was communicated to others. Sometimes, when people talk about incidents by the time it gets to people who can do something...it's been watered down to not sound serious, so the person won't get in trouble. (Not saying that's what happened here. I've just seen that happen in situations regarding juveniles before.)

I think I understood what you were saying. What's considered animal abuse in some cultures/families/groups might not be considered abuse in others, and depending on the incident it might not have been a warning sign based on the severity. Without knowing was it legitimate cruelty to animals vs. someone who doesn't treat animals the way we do we don't know whether or not it was a red flag someone missed along the way.

 

[blue22]

I think I understood what you were saying. What's considered animal abuse in some cultures/families/groups might not be considered abuse in others, and depending on the incident it might not have been a warning sign based on the severity. Without knowing was it legitimate cruelty to animals vs. someone who doesn't treat animals the way we do we don't know whether or not it was a red flag someone missed along the way.

You worded it much more clearly and concisely, thank you.

 

[swedie]

Regarding the harming of the dog. I hope that I'm not stepping on toes to say this, but in some cultures it's not really a big deal. Pets and animals in general are looked at very different. I have been on mission in The Philippines and Malaysia and I was shocked to see people kicking, throwing, (etc) their pets. It was no big deal, not considered abuse at all. Now, I'm not painting with broad strokes. Perhaps, it was just what I encountered in specific areas and not indicative of the whole country. I'm also not making excuses for AJ, his mom, or anyone else. I just simply have a feeling that cultural differences might play a huge part in not identifying warning signs. (That's totally JMO.)

Was AG not born and raised in the US? He would have known animal cruelty is not acceptable behaviour none the less. Same with torturing and murdering an innocent eight year old. I give no excuses for his evil behaviours other then he is a sadistic and evil person. There is obviously good indications everything he did was planned/premeditated and that is why he is being tried as an adult. He is mentally sick and deranged, and he knows/knew right from wrong.

I'm not saying this is the case in this situation, but who knows. There are many parents who deny they have troubled children. They refuse to believe their child could do wrong. There are many single parents who are too busy working, trying to make ends meet and fail to pay attention to their children, or they get wrapped up in trying to find a partner/significant other, doing the dating scene, not spending enough time at home with their children to notice when things are amiss or tend to turn a blind eye because it's too troublesome for them. They believe it's a phase and it will pass, or someone is blowing an incident all out of proportion, picking on their child. There is the chance that AG may have spent more time alone over the past four or so years while his mother tried to make ends meet. AG may have been neglected attention wise and these troubling situations were his way of gaining attention. Some things in this article stuck out to me. ALL MOO.

Being an over-helper. Some children just can’t do enough for you.

In one study, it was found that many parents spend less than 7 minutes per day with their children. That’s an issue.

There are several different types of attention seekersexplanations follow)
The Suffering One
The Organized One
The Manipulator
The Dramatic One
The Way to Busy Person
The Pretender
The Abused One
The Victim (Online and Real Life)

http://nobullying.com/attention-seeking-behavior/

 

[GutInstinct]

The coroner's report (just read) has brought me to tears.

And to the OP about dog abuse being acceptable in some cultures...please...don't even go there. I am certain there are many if not most animal lovers on this site including me who rescue wildlife in the states of nj and delaware. Just reading those words ... were offensive to me AND my best friend (my dog). Thanks.

 

[Elena]

Regarding the harming of the dog. I hope that I'm not stepping on toes to say this, but in some cultures it's not really a big deal. Pets and animals in general are looked at very different. I have been on mission in The Philippines and Malaysia and I was shocked to see people kicking, throwing, (etc) their pets. It was no big deal, not considered abuse at all. Now, I'm not painting with broad strokes. Perhaps, it was just what I encountered in specific areas and not indicative of the whole country. I'm also not making excuses for AJ, his mom, or anyone else. I just simply have a feeling that cultural differences might play a huge part in not identifying warning signs. (That's totally JMO.)

This is very true about the cultural differences. Me & my sister had a dog we had since we were small, when he passed away Mum just said 'just chuck it in the field nearby', and when we asked if we could cremate the dog she was like 'uhhh why, it's only a dog. so much hassle'. I grew up in a third world country, so yes I know most of the people treat dog (or any animal) like absolute ****. Not everyone, but many.

So I believe ag's mum might think it was nothing. But hopefully I'm wrong.

 

[Lilibet]

The coroner's report (just read) has brought me to tears.

And to the OP about dog abuse being acceptable in some cultures...please...don't even go there. I am certain there are many if not most animal lovers on this site including me who rescue wildlife in the states of nj and delaware. Just reading those words ... were offensive to me AND my best friend (my dog). Thanks.

No one is trying to be offensive. We all love animals. But exploring other culture's ways of looking at things in order to understand why cruelty may not have been addressed is all that was going on in that post.

 

[blue22]

The coroner's report (just read) has brought me to tears.

And to the OP about dog abuse being acceptable in some cultures...please...don't even go there. I am certain there are many if not most animal lovers on this site including me who rescue wildlife in the states of nj and delaware. Just reading those words ... were offensive to me AND my best friend (my dog). Thanks.

I did not say dog abuse was acceptable, I said it was viewed differently...and that some things are not considered abuse that are here. I also said that I was shocked, and that I was not painting with broad strokes. I saw it happen in certain areas and that does not mean that it happens in all.

I have owned animals my whole life. I currently have 2 dogs. One actually, has to get cancer removed from his leg for the second time in a year. One was rescued from a puppy mill. They are both 10 years old. I also volunteer at a cat rescue and have done so my whole life. Pointing out that it happens in some places, does NOT mean I am saying it's acceptable. Please, please don't put those words in my mouth. I am simply saying that some cultures do not regard animals like we do, and do not treat them or view them the same way. I never said I agree, just that it exists.

 

[blue22]

Was AG not born and raised in the US? He would have known animal cruelty is not acceptable behaviour none the less. Same with torturing and murdering an innocent eight year old. I give no excuses for his evil behaviours other then he is a sadistic and evil person. There is obviously good indications everything he did was planned/premeditated and that is why he is being tried as an adult. He is mentally sick and deranged, and he knows/knew right from wrong.

I'm not saying this is the case in this situation, but who knows. There are many parents who deny they have troubled children. They refuse to believe their child could do wrong. There are many single parents who are too busy working, trying to make ends meet and fail to pay attention to their children, or they get wrapped up in trying to find a partner/significant other, doing the dating scene, not spending enough time at home with their children to notice when things are amiss or tend to turn a blind eye because it's too troublesome for them. They believe it's a phase and it will pass, or someone is blowing an incident all out of proportion, picking on their child. There is the chance that AG may have spent more time alone over the past four or so years while his mother tried to make ends meet. AG may have been neglected attention wise and these troubling situations were his way of gaining attention. Some things in this article stuck out to me. ALL MOO.

Being an over-helper. Some children just can’t do enough for you.

In one study, it was found that many parents spend less than 7 minutes per day with their children. That’s an issue.

There are several different types of attention seekersexplanations follow)
The Suffering One
The Organized One
The Manipulator
The Dramatic One
The Way to Busy Person
The Pretender
The Abused One
The Victim (Online and Real Life)

http://nobullying.com/attention-seeking-behavior/

As I said in my original post, I was not making excuses!

I was not saying that HE wouldn't know it's cruel. What I was pointing out, is that some cultures would not view certain things as cruelty...and perhaps his mom would not have viewed that as a warning sign. If you don't think it's cruelty, there is no reason to find it troubling. (And that's just a possibility. I'm not suggesting it's really what happened.) Having spent a lot of time in the Philippines, I could see a parent thinking nothing of many actions against an animal, that would cause major red flags to you or I.

Anyway, I'm just making a suggestion about cultural differences. I felt like some insinuation about the mom not doing anything to stop this were being made, especially after the dog story. I feel like there is a big temptation to jump on the parents and blame them. But he was living in a supportive, loving, and accepting group of people. He was being fed positivity by his community. He was not a discarded kid who had no one to listen to him or understand him. I actually think he's old enough to be squarely blamed for his actions. I personally do think some cultural differences might have impeded the ability to see warning signs, but that's JMO. I'm moving on from the animal suggestion, because it's taken way differently than I meant (Or I just worded poorly to imply something I didn't mean.) It's really not all that relevant anyway, since we know so little about the dog situation.

 

[justwannahelp]

Regarding the harming of the dog. I hope that I'm not stepping on toes to say this, but in some cultures it's not really a big deal. Pets and animals in general are looked at very different. I have been on mission in The Philippines and Malaysia and I was shocked to see people kicking, throwing, (etc) their pets. It was no big deal, not considered abuse at all. Now, I'm not painting with broad strokes. Perhaps, it was just what I encountered in specific areas and not indicative of the whole country. I'm also not making excuses for AJ, his mom, or anyone else. I just simply have a feeling that cultural differences might play a huge part in not identifying warning signs. (That's totally JMO.)

I'm from the Deep South and I've seen lots of hunters excessively hit/kick/shame their dogs for not listening or being successful in retrieving when they were being trained to hunt etc. As I've always thought it was wrong- more than necessary- I still don't think it's the type of abuse that is often discovered with serial killers. I think abuse of animals by serial killers is usually a more torturous twisted type. The hitting and kicking that you speak of is a different kind of abuse -- I THINK. I believe the killers slowly torture animals and are obsessed with slow deaths- setting things on fire and such. Most are obsessed with the slow death of the animal- from the histories I've read, anyway.

 

[EllieBee]

Wait...amI reading this right. She was ALIVE when she was put in the bin?

"Kent said Madyson was not strangled, but died from positional asphyxiation because of the way her body was placed in the recycling bin. "

Jesus wept. I have no words.

 

[justwannahelp]

Jesus wept. I have no words.

Yes. This is awful. I didn't want to toss around that report because it's so awful to think about. But I'm assuming her neck muscles and or ligaments were cut so she couldn't lift her head to keep breathing or something along those lines. This is an assumption. But I'm also assuming that at this point she was unconscious from blood loss. Again, another assumption.

 

[EllieBee]

Regarding the harming of the dog. I hope that I'm not stepping on toes to say this, but in some cultures it's not really a big deal. Pets and animals in general are looked at very different. I have been on mission in The Philippines and Malaysia and I was shocked to see people kicking, throwing, (etc) their pets. It was no big deal, not considered abuse at all. Now, I'm not painting with broad strokes. Perhaps, it was just what I encountered in specific areas and not indicative of the whole country. I'm also not making excuses for AJ, his mom, or anyone else. I just simply have a feeling that cultural differences might play a huge part in not identifying warning signs. (That's totally JMO.)

Let us not forget the culture of manliness that lauds the hunting and killing of endangered species. I believe those trophy hunters also need to be looked at for other assaults/murders.

Animal cruelty is, indeed, closely related to violence to humans.