CA - Murder victims Identified as Rob Reiner and wife Michele - LA Dec 14 2025

  • #1,341
To send him to 18 different rehab centers, the equivalent of boot camps, in his teenage years, far away from his family would do some serious damage to a normal child's psyche, let alone to one that is quite clearly struggling and needs guidance.
An addict child needs therapy, guidance and help parents are not able to provide on their own. Getting sober does not mean just stopping the drug intake, it means doing tremendous mental work to change the thinking patterns and to assume the responsibility for ones own choices and decisions. Someone who is not a sober addict or mental health specialist has no idea how to do that.
Also, getting off drugs results often in depression and suicide ideation, so it's better done under eye of a specialist and it is easier to make these first steps towards sobriety in a place where the drug of choice is not easily accesible.

So no, I do not think Rob and Michele made mistake by sending Nick to the rehab centers. What was their mistake, IMO, was the lack of consequence, as it seems they took him out of these places at his whim. But alas, it seems they had very unhealthy habit of enabling and appeasing Nick way before he got addicted.
 
  • #1,342
Seasoned litigators say that if anyone can get Nick Reiner acquitted, it's Alan Jackson.

Combining zealous courtroom advocacy with a deft media touch, Jackson has a reputation for seeking big wins for his clients when other defense lawyers might try to cut a deal.


So even though his lawyer might be gunning for a full acquittal, Nick could be a danger if released; not only to others including his siblings, he could self-harm.

Nick Reiner should not be freed.
He should be in prison for the remainder of his days.
There is psychiatric help in prison and he may be a danger to everyone he believes has wronged him --if released.

I do not think Nick is completely insane all of the time as he has lucid moments even while high/not sober and was able to formulate a plan to get back into his parents home (& imo they had to have been somewhat wary in the past days, and afraid of their son ?) and slaughter both of them.
It has to be a person in a full on hate and rage to be able to use a knife to kill two adults.
The schizophrenic diagnosis seemed to pop up fairly soon after the murders, so it may or may not be accurate ?

IF Nick was being treated for schizophrenia before this, which some have opined in the media, the possibility of his doing street drugs at the same time may have negated or even exacerbated the effectiveness of his S. meds.

What's also egregious is that the money his dad and mom amassed after a life of accomplishment and hard work is now going to possibly pay towards getting their murderer off the hook.

This lawyer, Alan Jackson, may have an uphill road if he believes Nick should be fully acquitted and charges dropped ... as Nick's actions point to premeditation and rational behavior, including the washing off of blood at the hotel and placing sheets over the windows.

I wouldn't put it past this atty. to attempt to manipulate a defense and the potential jury, in favor of his client.
Wouldn't Alan Jackson be concerned that IF acquitted, nick could come after him if he felt A.J. did not do his job swiftly enough, or some other grievance ?
Omo.
This article is speculation and conjecture by attorneys other than Alan Jackson. IMO, Karen Read was framed and is innocent —comparing her case to this double murder or Spacey’s SA charges is ridiculous.
 
  • #1,343
The only plan Alan Jackson has, as he stated, is to explore and investigate thoroughly the many facets of this case. Jackson has never said he will plead insanity, or any other details relative to defense strategy. He has never said he will blame the doctors, parents, change of medication, etc.
imo
But indicators such as him being hired a high powered attorney by family and the fact that they want the DP off the table give us a clue in what direction a trial may be heading and what discussion possibility is being had behind closed doors
 
  • #1,344
Thank you. I missed that.


ETA: Can’t find it in the news anywhere. Anyone have a link?

I just looked in the court site & they took the 1/7/26 off from their schedule with no other date. On the jail site it still shows hearing on 1/7/26. Have not found any articles saying hearing is on 1/17/26. So if someone finds it - please post! TIA!

and -
1766488324769.webp
everyone!
1766488371521.webp
 
  • #1,345
There are several articles, none of which quote Jackson. I doubt they have strategized much until they have more info through careful investigation. Alan Jackson has a big reputation, but he is not unethical either as a prosecutor or defense attorney, imo
IME, the 1st thing a defense team in a high profile case does is send out 'weather balloons' to see which way the winds are blowing.

They place various articles for the target audience with potential defense arguments as the headlines. Then they watch the comments and social media platforms to see what was getting traction.

This is done BEFORE they have strategised and it is part of their careful investigation process. Send out the weather balloons and test the waters. Which way are opinions trending?

I am not saying he is unethical. I'm saying it is part of his job to test the waters and see what is most effective and persuasive to the target audience.

That first article about NR being on new medication for his schizophrenia was very effective. Many seemed to believe he could escape a guilty verdict with that type of defense strategy. IMO
 
  • #1,346
I'm wondering why not hire a body guard or sitter to watch over him. I guess they wanted him to feel normal. I just think taking your addict son to a party where there was temptations was a really bad call. In this case, it might have caused their own deaths. Imo
I saw mentions of them hiring 'sober companions' and 'recovery specialists' who were supposed to help keep him clean. But he would go to his parents and demand to get rid of them, or he'd run them off himself.
 
  • #1,347
I saw mentions of them hiring 'sober companions' and 'recovery specialists' who were supposed to help keep him clean. But he would go to his parents and demand to get rid of them, or he'd run them off himself.
Sober companions don’t treat underlying mental illness.
 
  • #1,348
  • #1,349
An addict child needs therapy, guidance and help parents are not able to provide on their own. Getting sober does not mean just stopping the drug intake, it means doing tremendous mental work to change the thinking patterns and to assume the responsibility for ones own choices and decisions. Someone who is not a sober addict or mental health specialist has no idea how to do that.
Also, getting off drugs results often in depression and suicide ideation, so it's better done under eye of a specialist and it is easier to make these first steps towards sobriety in a place where the drug of choice is not easily accesible.

So no, I do not think Rob and Michele made mistake by sending Nick to the rehab centers. What was their mistake, IMO, was the lack of consequence, as it seems they took him out of these places at his whim. But alas, it seems they had very unhealthy habit of enabling and appeasing Nick way before he got addicted.
The wilderness camps were not, in fact, therapeutic. Some had children kidnapped from their beds at home by masked men to be brought to facility. Many were shut down due to documented cases of severe abuse, including sexual abuse. Nick was at least 1 camp that was closed due to abuse. Parents were sold a bill of goods and subject to high pressure tactics. These experiences layered in additional significant trauma for many of the kids sent there. No easy answers when in patient treatment can’t be compelled and psych meds themselves may trigger violent behavior or suicidal ideation. The family dynamic does not seem healthy but families have few good choices. Very tragic. And homeless mentally ill are an individual tragedy and a public threat. Street drugs, perhaps used to self medicate, can also cause brain damage, psychosis and violent behavior, so, “cut them off” is not a simple answer either. RIP Rob and Michelle.

Lots has been written on the troubled teen industry, here is but one article Survivors of wilderness therapy camps describe trauma, efforts to end abuses | Arkansas Advocate
 
  • #1,350
Keep a close watch on him, give him something to do (he never even went to school) to occupy himself with, try to understand where he is coming from and why (drugs, alcohol or any other form of addiction are never done just for fun, there is always a deep rooted cause for it), be there emotionally for him and try to guide him while being understanding. Again, there is no sure way that this or anything would have worked on him, but wasting his developmental years on rehab centers on the other side of the country where he has no family or any close ones is possibly the worst way to go about it. Nick himself says on the Dopey podcast (and I tend to believe him) that he only dabbled in heroin after meeting a fellow junkie in one of his rehab stints. He spent almost his entire teenage years being either homeless or in rehabs. It's no surprise that by the time he reached his early twenties he looks broken, emotionally stunted and distant with no future perspectives in life. In a sense - he never got to grow up and figure things out for himself.


I think the answer to this is pretty simple - he never wanted to get clean. In the Dopey podcast he says as much. Rehabs, therapies, are for people that WANT to be there, they are not for people that have no intention of stopping their drug use. And if a person wants to stop using drugs, he doesn't even need a rehab. His parents tried to brute force an issue that was not resolvable with brute force.


Nick wasn't sent to 30 day rehabs, he was sent for months on end in different states. Some of his rehab stints were cut short since he tended to run away and go homeless, but nevertheless he kinda seems to have spent most of his years past 15 till 20-22 in rehabs or homeless. That said I don't think the tough love was of any help. Sure, he wasn't as bad in 2022 as he became later but I would argue that's mostly because there would be difference from being a junkie for the span of 6-8 years and being one for 18 years. And i'm not really sure they didn't held the boundaries. We know very little of what happened to Nick after "Being Charlie' except something he said on Dopey that gives us indication that things didn't change - he was kicked out once again and then came back to living with his parents. Rinse and repeat. That was 2-3 years later after the interviews he and his dad gave. Nothing seems to have changed really. And in the last year of his life there are reports he was still in some form of therapy. I'm curious if they just started medicating him at this point

As far as his attire, in the footage released of TMZ of him walking past the gas station at 12:00 AM he's wearing a baseball cap, a black bag and possibly sunglasses albeit it's very hard to tell with the image quality. The question is whether this was him on his way to kill his parents or going back home after the party


Nobody is blaming them or having sympathy for Nick. We're just trying to better understand the situation and how this came to happen in order to better understand other similar cases and how to prevent them. Everything has a cause and effect. Nobody wakes up one morning and decides to murder his parents just because.
I'm not sure no one wakes up one morning and decides to kill their parents--- I am past trying to understand an evil action like slitting your parents' throats--- That such an act resided in this person, perhaps for years, only he didn't act on it prior to this time. A person can be mentally ill and EVIL. I think he was jealous of his father, feeling he could never live up to what his father was- and resentment built up over years and years. His parents did everything they thought would help him-- they didn't know he was unreachable--- I am not ready to believe all of his actions that day were due to drugs. He was very angry at his father- so why did he kill his mother? I guess he hated her too---
 
  • #1,351
RSBMFF
You raise good points and I’m wondering same with respect to whether NR was wearing gloves, etc. I also agree with your thoughts as to reason why Alan Jackson was hired to defend NR.

Jumping off your post-
It’s still early on and we don’t know everything LE/P have amassed r/t evidence. I’m torn on whether a plea deal will be offered by P or negotiated at D’s request. Hard to gauge at this early stage. My guess is there will be no plea deal offered or agreed to if LE/P has already got or after review and analyzing of all the forensics/digital forensics are completed, uncovers evidence of premeditation leading up to the horror. Having said that, I’m quite sure the P are working hard behind the scenes putting together/preparing case for a potential trial. I’m sure AJ is also working hard and will do his best to ensure his clients rights are protected. As is known, LE/P investigations are ongoing as cases progress, right up until trial in some cases.

On another note, I’ve learned that CA has “Lying in wait” law and *IF* LE/P has or does uncover evidence that NR was LIW to murder his parents in addition to any other evidence of premeditation they may have, imo nullifies NGRI. Lying in Wait is very serious convincing evidence towards premeditation as shows malice aforethought & intent and is considered aggravating circumstances. If P does have those kind of “goods”, will work in their favor if the case does go to trial and imo blows a NGRI defense out of the water, so to speak.

As most of us know and imo worth repeating, Insanity is an extremely high legal bar to clear/meet with burden on the defendant/D to prove that at the time of the crime, they didn’t know right from wrong or understand the harm their actions would cause/caused.

While clearly something is wrong in the brain/wiring so to speak of someone that commits cold blooded murder, I’m not convinced NR has schizophrenia and even if he does, it doesn’t automatically mean he was insane at the time of murdering his parents i.e., had a psychotic break with reality, delusional, and/or hearing voices with command hallucinations aka voices in his head telling or ordering him to kill his parents. Those kind of things/Insanity needs to be proven in a court of law by the D.

LE/P hasn’t said or released too much info publicly and good on them for protecting the integrity of their investigation. The public doesn’t have the right to know everything LE/P has amassed against a defendant prior to plea deal or trial. Having said that, *IF* early reporting r/t NR ambushed his parents in their sleep and fled the scene to a hotel is true, appears to me NR knew and understood what he was doing. And again, LE also may have uncovered concrete evidence of premeditation to further show NR planned and knew what he was doing. We just don’t know what all evidence LE/P has. All we can do is speculate.

Lastly, imo *IF* a plea deal isn’t reached between the two parties and case goes to trial, considering AJ is an experienced, intelligent, competent, highly skilled defense attorney who was once a Prosecutor (a benefit imo), LE/P needs to dot all their i’s and cross all their t’s before going toe-to-toe with AJ in trial court. If they made
or make any mistakes in their investigative process such as with the gathering and handling of evidence etc, AJ can and most definitely will expose it at trial.
Put it this way, LE/P had better be sure to have dotted and crossed everything, are organized, methodical and ready to bring their “A” game to go up against “A” Defense Attorney AJ.
IMO if convicted at a future trial,
NR will be sentenced to prison for LWOP and receive MH treatment while incarcerated.

For those interested, providing link to CA’s Lying in Wait explanation and elements P has to meet and prove to be able to be successful adding as aggravating circumstances.


IMHOO
This whole post is very interesting. Yes, lying in wait= pre med. It will be very interesting to see what Alan Jackson does. MOO, for sure, he will make sure 3 points play heavily in case. 1. mental illness, 3. schizophrenia and yes, even 3. illegal drug use ( usually aggravating offense, but apparently can be even be mitigating in same instances, such as it compounded mental illness at the time of a crime). It’s not going to be a “simple” double murder, ( can’t believe I just wrote that, smh), where he seems to be pre meditating some of the crime, commits crime, and shows signs of consciousness of guilt after, looks “ normal” in videos.


Last night, I looked up Atascadero, the only State mental hospital open since the 80s, all others were closed. There is a whole section that explains how this hospital works with the Ca prison system, dealing with inmates.
1. An inmate at prison needs to have inpatient mental health treatment, inmate is transferred there, treated, then sent back to prison.
2. Likely Nick’s case, patient goes into hospital before the court case, improves, goes to trial, if convicted, goes into prison.
3. Some rare cases, inmates are held in an area for the criminally insane, indefinitely, because they can’t function in prison at all, are a danger to society, need to be institutionalized.

I’m new here, recently started posting, so I didn’t post Atascadero SH site info, (maybe big file), if others think it adds, please post for me, thanks.
 
  • #1,352
The wilderness camps were not, in fact, therapeutic. Some had children kidnapped from their beds at home by masked men to be brought to facility. Many were shut down due to documented cases of severe abuse, including sexual abuse. Nick was at least 1 camp that was closed due to abuse. Parents were sold a bill of goods and subject to high pressure tactics. These experiences layered in additional significant trauma for many of the kids sent there. No easy answers when in patient treatment can’t be compelled and psych meds themselves may trigger violent behavior or suicidal ideation. The family dynamic does not seem healthy but families have few good choices. Very tragic. And homeless mentally ill are an individual tragedy and a public threat. Street drugs, perhaps used to self medicate, can also cause brain damage, psychosis and violent behavior, so, “cut them off” is not a simple answer either. RIP Rob and Michelle.

Lots has been written on the troubled teen industry, here is but one article Survivors of wilderness therapy camps describe trauma, efforts to end abuses | Arkansas Advocate
Yeah, for further information, both The Program and Hell Camp on Netflix are excellent. The Program in particular, as the filmmaker is a survivor of Academy at Ivy Ridge, which makes it deeply personal. Hell Camp is more specifically about wilderness camps, though.

All the trigger warnings, though. Neither is an easy watch.

Which camp was NR sent to that was closed for abuse, do you know? Curious if it was one of the ones covered in those documentaries.

MOO
 
  • #1,353
I am behind, has it been reported that NR was sent to a "therapeutic" behavioral type camp as a youth or is this speculation? Apologies if this has been discussed, off to back read right now.
 
  • #1,354
Sober companions don’t treat underlying mental illness.
The whole concept of a sober companion “guard” for Nick, to keep him sober is crazy.
First of all, Nick needed to “Want” to get sober, he needed to “Want” to understand why he used, triggers, family dynamics, etc. It seems he was never sober long enough to “Want” to do the steps, ongoing groups, affect real psychic change, for a stable sobriety. Never happened after 17 years.
In the “dopey” interview, he said he “Just”( minimizes) wanted to go home and do drugs,( forget about sobriety).
In the end, after crime, Nick was picked up at USC, near drug dealers. He had committed a double murder, and was “ out of his head” with new psych meds, severely mentally ill.

RIP Ron and Michelle, you were sweet, honorable parents, who tried the only way you knew, by always loving Nick, in the end, keeping him home. Very sad situation.
 
  • #1,355
NR's history is erratic, up and down, in and out. In an article posted upthread it was stated a party guest was about to phone 911 but the host said not to. Probably didn't want to embarrass/upset the parents maybe and the media might be there so maybe wanted to keep it on the down low to not be in the papers.

People were obviously rattled and feeling VERY uncomfortable. This wasn't an annoying toddler at a party where people were uncomfortable or inconvenienced. NR's described as being 6'3' tall - a big guy, and if acting unstable, that would be quite intimidating, scary and maybe a threatening enough presence to people. Someone there felt police should be called.

We don't know all the party details. Maybe he did threaten someone or threaten to grab something, said something completely disgusting and bizarre to someone...no idea.

Perhaps erratic was the wrong word, semantics. But NR was not nor ever described as stable. If a person felt unsafe, they had a right to want to call police if needed if a mental health crisis or a dangerous person.

I think of the Ukranian girl on the bus/subway... if that man made her feel unsafe, she had a right to call police or ask for help. It would've been her right.

Not everyone downplays things. Sadly, the Reiners might have been used to NR's unstable behaviour and he didn't seem 'out of control' but a guest at a party who didn't know him? MIght've been super spooked or scared and thought "that guy needs to be away from people" or something like that. JMO MOO
I feel like erratic is a pretty apt description of his behaviour in general, imo.
 
  • #1,356
This article is speculation and conjecture by attorneys other than Alan Jackson. IMO, Karen Read was framed and is innocent —comparing her case to this double murder or Spacey’s SA charges is ridiculous.
MOO In this case, Alan may be able to pull some kind of magic stunt( better conditions), but I doubt Nick will be released anytime soon, hopefully never(LWOP). Since he attacked them in their sleep, he’s too dangerous. It’s not self defense!, so no chance of acquittal.
I don’t think Alan will get far attacking most of the LAPD evidence. They are professional, if Alan succeeds in getting a few items tossed, still an avalanche of evidence, Nick is guilty.
 
  • #1,357
This article is speculation and conjecture by attorneys other than Alan Jackson. IMO, Karen Read was framed and is innocent —comparing her case to this double murder or Spacey’s SA charges is ridiculous.
Much of what is out there in mainstream media about the Reiner's case is speculation/conjecture, nearly every msm article has some element of that and more than I've seen in any other case !
USA Today is fairly balanced and reputable .
Can't always say that about every writer who gets published, though.
There has been some speculation but despite searching around A. Jackson seems to not want to divulge very much.

So he's just being prudent ?
Does lawyer/client privilege extend to those who may have hired him, because I'm fairly certain he would not be represent N.R. pro bono.
But I could be wrong, this tragic case is putting him on the map even more than some of his recent cases.
My .02. only.

He's either being prudent or Alan may feel too much information about who is funding him or who requested his services, could jeopardize his case ?
Actually I was not comparing Karen Reads' or Kevin Spacey's cases to the Reiners'---sounds like the lawyer whose name I'm not familiar with , was saying that, due to A. Jackson getting high profile people acquitted may be the reason he is now representing Nick Reiner.

What would be interesting to know is who hired Alan Jackson in the first place ?
Whomever it was, they would know about his past legal history, which may have influenced them ?
What does everyone here think about this ?


Here's this tidbit from the above article :
Mystery surrounds how Jackson got involved in Nick Reiner's case, which accuses the 32-year-old of murdering his parents, accomplished film actor and director Rob Reiner and his wife of 36 years, Michele Reiner. The high-profile lawyer hasn't revealed that detail or his financial arrangement with Reiner and he didn't respond to USA TODAY's request for comment on those questions.

But one thing's for sure: Jackson is more likely than many to push for a full acquittal.
It'll be something if he succeeds.
My guess is that A.J' might be wiser to try to push for institutionalization as opposed to prison, basically try to mitigate damages ?
Any competent jury looking for justice is likely not going to want Nick set free and placed back out on the streets.
Evil and maybe very sick -- he needs to be kept from the populace at large for his own safety as well as others.
What if he tried to attack someone who was armed ?
For the remainder of his life he'll need to be separated from anyone he could injure or worse.
He murdered his own mom and dad, so there's no telling what else he might be capable of.

If he has a diagnosis of schizophrenia that went undetected (is that possible, one would imagine he was seen by competent professionals during his rehab stints, and afaik that diagnosis didn't come up before ?); that is sad and unfortunate for him, but mostly for his victims.

Moving forward now, it looks like he is no longer safe to live a free life.
He must not be allowed to hurt anyone else and to be fair I don't see that happening without N.R. being placed into a secure facility.
Imo.
 
  • #1,358
MOO In this case, Alan may be able to pull some kind of magic stunt( better conditions), but I doubt Nick will be released anytime soon, hopefully never(LWOP). Since he attacked them in their sleep, he’s too dangerous. It’s not self defense!, so no chance of acquittal.
I don’t think Alan will get far attacking most of the LAPD evidence. They are professional, if Alan succeeds in getting a few items tossed, still an avalanche of evidence, Nick is guilty.

Agreed 100 % with your entire comment, with emphasis on the bolded.

They were totally unprepared for that violence from the son they loved and to add I think there was maybe some level of premeditation ?
N.R. ended the lives of two people who probably loved him the most.
Why, why, why ??? 😭
Omo.
 
  • #1,359
Agreed 100 % with your entire comment, with emphasis on the bolded.

They were totally unprepared for that violence from the son they loved and to add I think there was maybe some level of premeditation ?
N.R. ended the lives of two people who probably loved him the most.
Why, why, why ??? 😭
Omo.
It’s always so unfathomable when an addict attacks the people who do the most for them. They feel, “ safe” to argue with parents, parents always forgive, love them. Addicts blame others, have huge resentments that go on for years, they lack humility, and don’t understand their part in life’s situations. They become ungrateful.
I think Nick’s extreme behavior snuck up on parents( boiling frog), they knew Nick was out of his mind, but they didn’t realize danger for themselves.
 
  • #1,360
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