CA - Rebecca Nalepa - suicide or murder? #9

[CalElliot]

Word is that autopsy report is now available from ME office. Hope to find it posted online in its entirety soon.

Questions:

• Next, need to see the search warrants. Why were the search warrants sealed? What can the Zahaus do to unseal these?
  
• Who now has possession of Rebecca's cell phone and the painted door?
  
• And again, why was JONAH SHACKNAI convinced that Rebecca killed herself from the moment he heard the news? What, if anything, convinced him? His conviction in her suicide, or his need for the result to be suicide, set the tone for the entire investigation.

 

[SunnieRN]

I have read and heard on the PC that there was a security system in the house, (ADT type), but nothing about cameras. Interesting thought though.

 

[tlneedham]

IF it was a suicide, then I think that JS would know because if it was a note meant for him, then he would understand it. For example, let's say he told her in the phone message, don't be in my bedroom when I come home, please move into the guest bedroom until we have a chance to talk. etc etc.

I guess I'm just not seeing why he would even care where she slept given what he was dealing with. I could see telling someone to leave your house, but caring what bed they slept in when you really wouldn't know anyway?

...unless he was planning to come home and get some sleep himself. And then he might say he didn't want to talk or see her, he just wanted to sleep, so please go stay in the guest room. "We'll talk when I get up tomorrow" or something.

But as far as we know, he had no intention of coming home.

 

[jstwondering]

IF it was a suicide, then I think that JS would know because if it was a note meant for him, then he would understand it. For example, let's say he told her in the phone message, don't be in my bedroom when I come home, please move into the guest bedroom until we have a chance to talk. etc etc.

Then he might understand why she threw herself off that balcony, and he might understand what the cryptic message meant, if he used to for example, say " Thank You for saving me" when they first got together. So, imo, it IS possible that he knew she killed herself. Maybe when they used to fight she would get upset and threaten to kill herself if thjey broke up. My daughter had a bf who used to that, annoyingly enough.

I have no doubt that JS knows what the painted words on the door mean.
I've been thinking about this for a while, and here is IMHO my theory of what
"She Saved Him Can You Save Her" could mean.

If it is a suicide note, then my theory is that the note could be a plea by NZ to JS to help her little sister. If NZ felt guilty and was being blamed for MS's fall, she could be reminding JS that her sister was the one that called 911. So, in a sense, NZ is claiming her sister actually saved MS, (even though it eventually ended so badly) so could JS now save her sister or cover for her/provide for her.

If it is not a suicide note, which is where I am leaning, imagine this horrible scenario-
two non-amicable parents are sharing watch over their severely injured child, it gets to be too much for the mom, who accuses the ex-hubby's girlfriend of hurting her baby. She always suspected that girlfriend would hurt her baby. How could he leave her in charge of beloved son? Ex-hubby at first says that his girlfriend didn't hurt son, she actually saved his life by administering CPR. Mother is incredulous that he could even suggest such a defense, and continues to seethe with anger at ex-hubby and his irresponsible choice of a partner...so the theory is that mom is thinking, so you say she saved him, really???, well look at her now, can you save her?

Any way you look at it, it's a very confusing and sad case.

 

[HowLoveCanBe]

JS and DS had shared custody I presume. So since JS only had limited time with his child, why is he delegating that time with MS to his live-in girlfriend while JS goes off golfing and who knows what else. One wonders how much time he actually put in, hands-on with the kids even though he had the sweet deal, not having to go in to work for the childrens' sake. Of course, a man's allowed to go off for a golf game, but how involved was he actually in the day-to-day with his children.

What gets me is that if Dina had barred Rebecca from the ICU. Did Jonah support that decision? Where he came down on that decision and how he handled that with Rebecca would most likely set tone for what was to come.

 

[time]

DS was also referred in the news as "Dina Flores" at one point.

I never did figure that one out!

 

[deanna82437]

I never did figure that one out!

I saw that as well and I believe it was her mother that referred to her by that name. I just assumed she had a previous marriage/divorce and went by that name.

 

[HowLoveCanBe]

I have no doubt that JS knows what the painted words on the door mean.
I've been thinking about this for a while, and here is IMHO my theory of what
"She Saved Him Can You Save Her" could mean.

If it is a suicide note, then my theory is that the note could be a plea by NZ to JS to help her little sister. If NZ felt guilty and was being blamed for MS's fall, she could be reminding JS that her sister was the one that called 911. So, in a sense, NZ is claiming her sister actually saved MS, (even though it eventually ended so badly) so could JS now save her sister or cover for her/provide for her.

If it is not a suicide note, which is where I am leaning, imagine this horrible scenario-
two non-amicable parents are sharing watch over their severely injured child, it gets to be too much for the mom, who accuses the ex-hubby's girlfriend of hurting her baby. She always suspected that girlfriend would hurt her baby. How could he leave her in charge of beloved son? Ex-hubby at first says that his girlfriend didn't hurt son, she actually saved his life by administering CPR. Mother is incredulous that he could even suggest such a defense, and continues to seethe with anger at ex-hubby and his irresponsible choice of a partner...so the theory is that mom is thinking, so you say she saved him, really???, well look at her now, can you save her?

Any way you look at it, it's a very confusing and sad case.

If Rebecca administered CPR and Max did not die at the scene then she 'saved' him. My gut tells me he would have continued to survive on life support but the parents made the call to not go down that path. She was being blamed by Dina for her son's death. I think this is perfectly understandable given their history and Dina's need to make sense of this tragedy. Look at stage 2 of the Kübler-Ross model. Did Jonah defend or 'save' Rebecca from Dina's anger? Did Jonah compound the situation with his own blame towards Rebecca? When are messages ever placed on doors? They are placed on doors as messages to people coming in. She painted that message as the first act in her plan. If Jonah had come home between the time she painted that and before she jumped he could have saved her. She was waiting for his loving embrace.

 

[tlneedham]

Another question would be, did LE verify he called? What strikes me odd is that IF that were the message he left, would he not have also left it for AS?

I have had that a number of time several times--and not just AS. If he had just gotten that message, he could have called a lot of people and told them...Dina too...so it could have set off anyone close to the child and blamed Rebecca...

As numerous members have said, If I had gotten a call like that I would not be turning back over to go to sleep.

what was the urgency for JS to call RZ at that hour? She could not come to the hospital to see him--she was not allowed.

Could there have been another reason for JS to call RZ at that hour?

Maybe he just wanted someone to talk to? I imagine the air could have been thick with recriminations from Dina in the hospital room. He may have just wanted someone else to talk to.

But as many people have said, very odd she didn't pick up. If she was asleep, why would she wake up later to check her voice mail?

I do wonder if maybe she knew she couldn't reach him if she called back. Sometimes, you're not allowed to use cell phone inside hospital and he might have had to go outside to call her. He could have said in message he was heading back in...

But personally, I still would have called back, if only to leave a supportive voice mail.

And here's another question...

Why would he have just learned that info at that time of night? The child should have no longer been in the ER at that point. And every experience I've had with hospitals is you are out of luck for getting info from doctors or test results after business hours.

My guess is he had to have gotten that news hours before.

 

[ziggy]

Does anyone think it's odd that the message has been whited out in all the photographs? Why? It's just words in black paint. They show the knives, the rope...but feel the need to white out the message? Maybe because it is thought to be the suicide note and too personal?

I do find it odd that there are no other footprints on the balcony. Still, it's a really crazy suicide if it is one.

I do not find it odd that she would not be welcome in the ICU. The mother may have had bad feelings towards her and that would be pretty normal. The dad didn't want to upset her and after all, she was only "the girlfriend" as serious as they may have been about their relationship - she's still not an immediate family member. I'm sure there were bad feelings - I get that. It just bothers me that this is a really strange way to commit suicide and completely out of the norm for a woman to do it in this fashion...not impossible I guess.

No evidence of anyone else being in the room, touching the rope, the brushes, no other footprints...either it was a suicide or a professional job.

 

[Bonepile]

I am still concerned that Jonah's statement is being posted on the Sheriff's website along with all the official reports.

What right has JS to post that there, and do they see it as some type of "impact" statement? Will the same courtesy be extended to Rebecca's family?

 

[Quester]

What gets me is that if Dina had barred Rebecca from the ICU. Did Jonah support that decision? Where he came down on that decision and how he handled that with Rebecca would most likely set tone for what was to come.

Good questions!

The following was reported today:

"[JS] told [RN] not to visit [the hospital], because he wanted to avoid a confrontation between [RZ] and [DS] ..."

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/09/jonah-shacknai-telling-people-girlfriend-rebecca-zahau-suicide-day-body-found

 

[deanna82437]

Something that has bothered me for a few weeks now, probably has really nothing to do with the case, but still gnaws away. Rebecca (may she rest in peace) has taken some flack here and other places as the one being in charge of everything in that household, including being the watchful eye over MS. I have read (don't ask for links, my brain is blank) that in that affluent neighborhood, all families employed nannies/governesses, at times one for each child, cooks, housekeepers, gardeners, etc. I just wonder why this family (mainly JS, I guess) was so different. It just seems strange that all of those details/duties were left to one individual. Ok .. done!

 

[justice be served]

And here's another question...

Why would he have just learned that info at that time of night? The child should have no longer been in the ER at that point. And every experience I've had with hospitals is you are out of luck for getting info from doctors or test results after business hours.

My guess is he had to have gotten that news hours before.

Snipped and BBM
Yes, why on earth would it be necessary to give that news at that hour to Rebecca or anyone else. Surely, the specialist would have done that in normal business hours. The timing is especially convenient based on what went down and the story told. And I doubt anyone else got that news at that hour besides Rebecca. Hinky, hinky.

 

[Bonepile]

As to this suicide is there any written case like this anywhere even in a novel, or in a magazine or in a film or TV show that would possibly give RZ the idea of how to do it? Did she know of someone from her childhood years that did it this way?

I really find it very strange the way it was accomplished and am leaning toward something else all together.

 

[Bonepile]

I think that Rebecca's position with this family can best be summed up in the sheer length of time it took JS and DS to write anything about her.

 

[time]

Something that has bothered me for a few weeks now, probably has really nothing to do with the case, but still gnaws away. Rebecca (may she rest in peace) has taken some flack here and other places as the one being in charge of everything in that household, including being the watchful eye over MS. I have read (don't ask for links, my brain is blank) that in that affluent neighborhood, all families employed nannies/governesses, at times one for each child, cooks, housekeepers, gardeners, etc. I just wonder why this family (mainly JS, I guess) was so different. It just seems strange that all of those details/duties were left to one individual. Ok .. done!

Perhaps they were they but were illegals? Would there then be a reason to keep them hidden from LE?

 

[MyBelle]

I don't know if the family researched her past. She's a lawyer and supposedly good. They want the truth and it could be related to Max's death. I don't care that Max died two days earlier. They have to get the police to investigate this as soon as possible. JMO



Everybody here is in a position to say otherwise. It's a free country with freedom of speech. With all due respect you seem to act as if it's ridiculous to question this investigation when there are so many unanswered questions, things that appear to have been purposely left out of the press conference and whiting out the message on the door so nobody will ever see it.

This board is set up to question investigations into crimes. There are quite a few cases in this country that have been ruled suicide but later re-opened and a murder conviction has been obtained. Personally, I don't want a murderer to walk free and there is more than enough evidence to believe this could have been a murder. JMO

My comments were specific to Max's death. LE did address his death to the point of providing an illustration of how it happened. I think it is disrespectful and also ridiculous for Ms. Bremner to suggest LE and the ME aren't being truthful about Max's fall. It wasn't ruled a suicide and his fall wasn't due to planking.

JMO

 

[jstwondering]

If Rebecca administered CPR and Max did not die at the scene then she 'saved' him. My gut tells me he would have continued to survive on life support but the parents made the call to not go down that path. She was being blamed by Dina for her son's death. I think this is perfectly understandable given their history and Dina's need to make sense of this tragedy. Look at stage 2 of the Kübler-Ross model. Did Jonah defend or 'save' Rebecca from Dina's anger? Did Jonah compound the situation with his own blame towards Rebecca? When are messages ever placed on doors? They are placed on doors as messages to people coming in. She painted that message as the first act in her plan. If Jonah had come home between the time she painted that and before she jumped he could have saved her. She was waiting for his loving embrace.

Dear HLCB, I've been enjoying your posts.
I can respect your opinion, as my ideas are just theories, also. What bothers me is that if NZ wrote the note, why would she call herself "she"? After all, she called JS "you".

Was the note on the door on the inside? i.e. if you closed the door, was it still inside the room, or was it outside, so that when the door was closed, it could be read by whomever came knocking. Was the door closed when the police came? I don't know. It's interesting.

Oh, and thanks for your post about Kübler-Ross. I'm very familiar with the stages; I have gone through them more than I care to admit.

 

[MyBelle]

I am still concerned that Jonah's statement is being posted on the Sheriff's website along with all the official reports.

What right has JS to post that there, and do they see it as some type of "impact" statement? Will the same courtesy be extended to Rebecca's family?

JS' is a statement that supports LE and the investigation so of course LE wants it there. RN's family has bashed LE and their investigation in the media so I don't see the Sheriff giving them space to do so on his website.

JMO