CA - Rebecca Nalepa - suicide or murder? #9

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  • #921
I have had that a number of time several times--and not just AS. If he had just gotten that message, he could have called a lot of people and told them...Dina too...so it could have set off anyone close to the child and blamed Rebecca...



Maybe he just wanted someone to talk to? I imagine the air could have been thick with recriminations from Dina in the hospital room. He may have just wanted someone else to talk to.

But as many people have said, very odd she didn't pick up. If she was asleep, why would she wake up later to check her voice mail?

I do wonder if maybe she knew she couldn't reach him if she called back. Sometimes, you're not allowed to use cell phone inside hospital and he might have had to go outside to call her. He could have said in message he was heading back in...

But personally, I still would have called back, if only to leave a supportive voice mail.

And here's another question...

Why would he have just learned that info at that time of night? The child should have no longer been in the ER at that point. And every experience I've had with hospitals is you are out of luck for getting info from doctors or test results after business hours.

My guess is he had to have gotten that news hours before.

If he had gotten the message earlier in the day, I find it hard to believe that he would have gone to dinner with Rebecca and AS and not discussed the matter.

In a hospital setting, doctors will visit patients and family after business hours. Especially if they have a practice and see patients during the day. There is also the matter of test results and when they come in, which determines when doctors will talk to family members.

I see this as possibly the following timeline:

Dinner with Rebecca and AS

Return to hospital, and Max's bedside

Get news about test results from doctor

JS/DS and possibly other family members make the decision to end life support and donate organs

The anger and grief are overwhelming for JS/DS, causing one of them to call Rebecca. At this point it is unknown whether that was an angry or grief stricken phone call.

Events with Rebecca occur


Rebecca found by AS
 
  • #922
About any rope trail on the balcony ... went back to the report with pictures and maybe there wouldn't be one given the narrow depth.

But I noticed something. On page 15 the right hand photo shows the rope going out onto the balcony with the doors closed. I take it to indicate that is how they found the crime scene. Would Rebecca have been able to stand out there and close the doors? And, why would she bother?

well she could close the door if she hadn't put her hands behind her back yet, but the footprints never point back toward the french doors. So, I'm not sure how LE found the doors; they didn't tell us/didn't feel we needed to know......

And then there is also a photo with the doors open and it appears to still be dark out....which I don't understand.....but I live in the east and the sun rises early......would it still be dark at 7:00 am in Coronado?
 
  • #923
In regards to knots, you have to think of AS who works on tugboats, anyone who is into boating or possibly RN. A WS poster implied that JS may have been into Japanese bondage or Kinbaku/Sokubaku - meaning 'the beauty of tight binding'. In that case, she would be experienced in knot tying. Never heard of it before...so, I googled japanese bondage widipedia and found definition and a very elicit photo (naked woman tied up with rope and mouth covered- sound familiar?). Take a look, and it makes you wonder. And Dr Klein made that sexual comment about JS..."as his wealth increased so did his satyriasis --- his excessive, often uncontrollable sexual desire. Maybe this was his desire to remain forever young. But this illness may very well account for what happened at the Spreckles mansion as it did for the action at Dupont Estate in Deleware."

Bremner is talking out of her pie-hole, imo. How could she possibly know that in the history of the world there has NEVER ever been a suicide like this. She cannot possibly know if that is true or not. There have been a billion suicides at the very least and she knows what all of the circumstances were?

Does she know if RN was into the Asian Tantric art of knot tying for sensual relations? Because that would make a significant difference if she was found to be knowledgable in that art.

They also cannot KNOW that the note was NOT written by her. They do not KNOW if she ever used block letters or not. They said she never did. How could they know that? None of her family lived close to her and she was a painter. She might have used block letters w/out them knowing and if so, they would not think it was her writing, when it possibly was.

Families often have a hard time believing a family member killed themselves. But Bremner's reasoning is histrionic, imo. " never ever in the history of the world ' is a pretty bold yet unprovable statement.

I think Bremner is prone to talking out of her pie hole. She has a history of making ludicrous statements with no basis in logic. So far, though, she has done okay in her representation of the Zahau family.

But guys, why all this speculation that Zahau is into some kind of Asian bondage? I've seen that in several posts. Cause' she's Asian? She is not Japanese (I think she was born in Malaysia of Chinese descent) and Tantric sex is really a western construct of an ancient, Hindu religious concept that included sex rites, but which western cultures adapted. In other words, hippies studied Tantra and ancient Indian sex rites connected to it and created what we know of as Tantric sex in the west. Besides, Rebecca's been here a long, long time from what I can gather and it's doubtful that her parents taught her some Asian form of bondage.

Word is that autopsy report is now available from ME office. Hope to find it posted online in its entirety soon.

Questions:

  • Next, need to see the search warrants. Why were the search warrants sealed? What can the Zahaus do to unseal these?
  • Who now has possession of Rebecca's cell phone and the painted door?
  • And again, why was JONAH SHACKNAI convinced that Rebecca killed herself from the moment he heard the news? What, if anything, convinced him? His conviction in her suicide, or his need for the result to be suicide, set the tone for the entire investigation.

Great questions. I am very open to this being a suicide. It is possible that the police eliminated all possible suspects, found no evidence of anyone else near the crime scene, except to cut her down, found evidence that she was the only one handling the paint, the ropes, that JS left her a message that would terribly upset her, etc., etc. But the thing is, this is a very unusual death that looks at first blush like a definite homicide.

And, this occurred at the home of a very powerful, very rich man with a history of accusations of violence and control and there was a tragic, odd accident, leading to the ultimate death of his boy, at the same house, days before.

The point is, there are too many questions and while I understand the need to protect JS and Dina and even Rebecca, from too much info being publicized, the public, and Rebecca's family, is highly concerned.

I think LE needs to be completely transparent and answer questions from the public and the Zahau's. They need to explain a bit further, instead of showing a Houdini routine in a re-creation video and hiding some evidence from publication or explanation - lie the apparent head wounds. A young woman died in a very bizarre manner and the public should be privy to ALL the reasons why LE felt this was a suicide, or this matter is not going to rest.
 
  • #924
I think that Rebecca's position with this family can best be summed up in the sheer length of time it took JS and DS to write anything about her.

Here's what I think is probably closer to the truth now that I look at everything.

That that rumor that Rebecca and Jonah were about to be engaged probably did not come from the PR firm, but I think it is probably true. I think Jonah's tactic has been to distance himself from portraying any really close relationship with Rebecca since her death... it's almost like she barely existed and that one line in his Sheriff Dept statement only validates that for me. On top of it it seems he was floating the suicide theory from the get go. It's my understanding they were living together as partners. This is not how you would view a partner you had made that kind of commitment to. Maybe he was caught with his pants down in that he promised Dina that he would always be there when Max visited. I'm really doubting Dina had serious claims against Rebecca - we shall see. I think it was a tit-for-tat thing going on between Dina and Jonah. I'd be seriously upset if my ex were investigating the guys I was dating or in a relationship with... particularly if he scared them away. The guys would be seriously upset if this carried on and Dina's kept retaliating (playing the dysfunctional game) instead of going on with her own life.
 
  • #925
Dear HLCB, I've been enjoying your posts.
I can respect your opinion, as my ideas are just theories, also. What bothers me is that if NZ wrote the note, why would she call herself "she"? After all, she called JS "you".

Was the note on the door on the inside? i.e. if you closed the door, was it still inside the room, or was it outside, so that when the door was closed, it could be read by whomever came knocking. Was the door closed when the police came? I don't know. It's interesting.

Oh, and thanks for your post about Kübler-Ross. I'm very familiar with the stages; I have gone through them more than I care to admit.


It was on the outside of the doorway facing the hall.

Also, I agree, I don't think people write notes and change from third person to first person or whatever in the middle of them. I don't think she would refer to herself in the third person either, but then again, I don't think Rebecca wrote that.
 
  • #926
Another question would be, did LE verify he called? What strikes me odd is that IF that were the message he left, would he not have also left it for AS?
As numerous members have said, If I had gotten a call like that I would not be turning back over to go to sleep.

what was the urgency for JS to call RZ at that hour? She could not come to the hospital to see him--she was not allowed.

Could there have been another reason for JS to call RZ at that hour?

Aren't you making an assumption that AS did not receive a call at the same time? Conversations between JS and AS wouldn't be publicly released because it really has no relevance to the investigation.

I'm kinda surprised that some are questioning the time of the call. A turn for the worse can happen at any time. Hearts do stop beating and need restarting but that doesn't mean they continue to beat normally. Was RN so callous toward Max that she wouldn't want to even be told of his condition? I doubt it.

JMO
 
  • #927
If Rebecca administered CPR and Max did not die at the scene then she 'saved' him. My gut tells me he would have continued to survive on life support but the parents made the call to not go down that path. She was being blamed by Dina for her son's death. I think this is perfectly understandable given their history and Dina's need to make sense of this tragedy. Look at stage 2 of the Kübler-Ross model. Did Jonah defend or 'save' Rebecca from Dina's anger? Did Jonah compound the situation with his own blame towards Rebecca? When are messages ever placed on doors? They are placed on doors as messages to people coming in. She painted that message as the first act in her plan. If Jonah had come home between the time she painted that and before she jumped he could have saved her. She was waiting for his loving embrace.


No disrespect intended, but this all sounds m ore like something in a Vampire movie than I can buy as a suicide theory.

Besides, per LE timeline it doesn't seem like t here would have been much time for her to be saved by Jonah, he had no intention of coming home and if she felt this way it appears to me she would call out to him first - LE says she never called him back and didn't even answer the phone since he left a voicemail.
 
  • #928
As to this suicide is there any written case like this anywhere even in a novel, or in a magazine or in a film or TV show that would possibly give RZ the idea of how to do it? Did she know of someone from her childhood years that did it this way?

I really find it very strange the way it was accomplished and am leaning toward something else all together.

I agree. I've watched many horror movies, film-noirs and murder mysteries and have never thought of this scenario. If i were to commit suicide it wouldn't be this complex perhaps I am boring or lack imagination. It's seem so utterly bizarre it had to be thought through and researched before hand on a computer/internet.
 
  • #929
Another question would be, did LE verify he called? What strikes me odd is that IF that were the message he left, would he not have also left it for AS?

I have had that a number of time several times--and not just AS. If he had just gotten that message, he could have called a lot of people and told them...Dina too...so it could have set off anyone close to the child and blamed Rebecca...

As numerous members have said, If I had gotten a call like that I would not be turning back over to go to sleep.

what was the urgency for JS to call RZ at that hour? She could not come to the hospital to see him--she was not allowed.

Could there have been another reason for JS to call RZ at that hour?

Maybe he just wanted someone to talk to? I imagine the air could have been thick with recriminations from Dina in the hospital room. He may have just wanted someone else to talk to.

But as many people have said, very odd she didn't pick up. If she was asleep, why would she wake up later to check her voice mail?

I do wonder if maybe she knew she couldn't reach him if she called back. Sometimes, you're not allowed to use cell phone inside hospital and he might have had to go outside to call her. He could have said in message he was heading back in...

But personally, I still would have called back, if only to leave a supportive voice mail.

And here's another question...

Why would he have just learned that info at that time of night? The child should have no longer been in the ER at that point. And every experience I've had with hospitals is you are out of luck for getting info from doctors or test results after business hours.

My guess is he had to have gotten that news hours before.
 
  • #930
Something that has bothered me for a few weeks now, probably has really nothing to do with the case, but still gnaws away. Rebecca (may she rest in peace) has taken some flack here and other places as the one being in charge of everything in that household, including being the watchful eye over MS. I have read (don't ask for links, my brain is blank) that in that affluent neighborhood, all families employed nannies/governesses, at times one for each child, cooks, housekeepers, gardeners, etc. I just wonder why this family (mainly JS, I guess) was so different. It just seems strange that all of those details/duties were left to one individual. Ok .. done!

One of the earlier (I mean thread 1 or 2!!) posters from the area had said that some of the summer help came across the border everyday and then went back at night.........but remember in the earlier videos it showed an older gentleman loading suitcases in the back of a car....were they 'renting' or help??????
 
  • #931
OK here's my two cents, totally MOO...but I just can't shake the feeling that the whole death scene is very symbolic.

-- Witches were hung in public to teach people a lesson...Rebecca was hung in a courtyard. Shirt in the mouth to silence her--literally and figuratively.

Women rarely hang themselves and they rarely kill themselves in a "public" place. And coming up with this whole scene of binding the hands, stuffing the mouth and throwing yourself over a balcony just seems really far-fetched for someone who is supposedly out of her mind and hysterical enough to want to kill herself.

And with so many easier ways to go than this...I don't know, but the whole set up screams payback and teaching someone a lesson--not suicide.

-- A message on a wall is usually a taunt from a killer, not a suicide note. And this one sounds taunting to me, particularly with the cryptic message and third-party pronouns.

If she felt so guilty, why wouldn't she pick up a pen and write a note first apologizing over and over to the boy, to the man she loved, to her family? Why would she pick up black paint and paint something cryptic on the way with nary an apology?

Even if she felt she'd been wronged somehow, I can't see NOT wanting to set the record straight and express her love one last time.

-- Her being nude AND in "public." She had to know that AS or someone else was more likely to find her than JS was. After all, last we heard she was supposed to take him a change of clothes in the AM, so it didn't sound like he was coming home.

Again, the nudity just screams symbolism to me--exposing her for who she is. One last act of humiliation, especially given her courtyard location.

As I said, totally my thoughts but the symbolism of the whole scene has really been bugging me.
 
  • #932
No disrespect intended, but this all sounds m ore like something in a Vampire movie than I can buy as a suicide theory.

Besides, per LE timeline it doesn't seem like t here would have been much time for her to be saved by Jonah, he had no intention of coming home and if she felt this way it appears to me she would call out to him first - LE says she never called him back and didn't even answer the phone since he left a voicemail.

My take on the message is that it was about her eternal salvation. The family has said she was religious and believed suicide would be eternal damnation.

iow, she saved Max so would Jesus save her......

JMO
 
  • #933
Can someone show me the evidence of her being incredibly religious besides her family saying it? I find it interesting that she would have been so devout as to be asking Jesus to save her, but shacking up with this guy would have been no big deal? Someone who was highly religious and whose family used the Bible as their final judgement would *not* have been okay with this. She wouldn't have, either.

The idea of going to hell for suicide bummed her out, but going to hell for adultery, totally kosher?
 
  • #934
...and the (at least) two different versions of it we have heard:

Is it at all possible that this is being withheld in the eventuality that the person who wrote it is still living? And that that person might eventually slip up and 'out' him/herself by knowing what the exact format and wording were?

Call me a foolish optimist, but I still have hope that this investigation is not yet really closed.
 
  • #935
OK here's my two cents, totally MOO...but I just can't shake the feeling that the whole death scene is very symbolic.

-- Witches were hung in public to teach people a lesson...Rebecca was hung in a courtyard. Shirt in the mouth to silence her--literally and figuratively.

Women rarely hang themselves and they rarely kill themselves in a "public" place. And coming up with this whole scene of binding the hands, stuffing the mouth and throwing yourself over a balcony just seems really far-fetched for someone who is supposedly out of her mind and hysterical enough to want to kill herself.

And with so many easier ways to go than this...I don't know, but the whole set up screams payback and teaching someone a lesson--not suicide.

-- A message on a wall is usually a taunt from a killer, not a suicide note. And this one sounds taunting to me, particularly with the cryptic message and third-party pronouns.

If she felt so guilty, why wouldn't she pick up a pen and write a note first apologizing over and over to the boy, to the man she loved, to her family? Why would she pick up black paint and paint something cryptic on the way with nary an apology?

Even if she felt she'd been wronged somehow, I can't see NOT wanting to set the record straight and express her love one last time.

-- Her being nude AND in "public." She had to know that AS or someone else was more likely to find her than JS was. After all, last we heard she was supposed to take him a change of clothes in the AM, so it didn't sound like he was coming home.

Again, the nudity just screams symbolism to me--exposing her for who she is. One last act of humiliation, especially given her courtyard location.

As I said, totally my thoughts but the symbolism of the whole scene has really been bugging me.

BBM
Sis, is this you? Just kidding, because my sister is computer phobic. My sister and I walk every morning, and she said the EXACT same things this morning. I totally agree with your post. I try to keep an open mind, and love reading everyone's theories, but I just HAD TO thank your post in person, because you said what I believe much better than I could.
 
  • #936
Morag, I have thought about this over the past several days, and I can only hope that the "ruling" on Friday might be a way to try to draw the real killer out. Maybe they feel like they're dealing with someone egotistical or who would eventually want to take credit or be known for having done this. The suicide ruling would probably get their goat.
 
  • #937
snipped >
Was the note on the door on the inside? i.e. if you closed the door, was it still inside the room, or was it outside, so that when the door was closed, it could be read by whomever came knocking. Was the door closed when the police came? I don't know. It's interesting.
snipped

The message was on the outside of the door so that whoever entered the room would see the message before entering. This is stated in RZ autopsy report.
 
  • #938
I agree. I've watched many horror movies, film-noirs and murder mysteries and have never thought of this scenario. If i were to commit suicide it wouldn't be this complex perhaps I am boring or lack imagination. It's seem so utterly bizarre it had to be thought through and researched before hand on a computer/internet.

BBM

Me too.......why not use one of the knives or put the garbage bag over your head......

When I was working most of the suicides were from hanging, gun shot wounds or running the car in the garage but I have learned a lot from posters here and it seems to be very personal and individual.

I still believe that the knots tell the story.....did RN know how or ever used these type of knots?????????
 
  • #939
Can someone show me the evidence of her being incredibly religious besides her family saying it? I find it interesting that she would have been so devout as to be asking Jesus to save her, but shacking up with this guy would have been no big deal? Someone who was highly religious and whose family used the Bible as their final judgement would *not* have been okay with this. She wouldn't have, either.

The idea of going to hell for suicide bummed her out, but going to hell for adultery, totally kosher?

The family is lying? I doubt it. Not all of us share the same moral compass.

JMO
 
  • #940
My take on the message is that it was about her eternal salvation. The family has said she was religious and believed suicide would be eternal damnation.

iow, she saved Max so would Jesus save her......

JMO

So why would she condemn herself to eternal damnation for a tragic accident?
 
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