CA - Rebecca Zahau Nalepa - suicide or murder? #10

[branwynbreeze]

You are right and I typed too fast, so sorry, but how can you do compressions with her hands tied behind her back. You also can't position her neck, with rigor mortis.

Help me understand this, why are her legs apart? This is where I scratch my head. Seems for decency sake once cut down her legs would close or someone would do it if RM hadn't set in. So were her legs bent prior to being cut down? LE says she was 2 feet above ground, wouldn't her legs be straight?


I hope this makes sense, I am horrid at explaining things. I remain, as always, confused.

 

[jjenny]

<<respectfully snipped>>

I've been a Licensed Optician for almost 25 years, I have worked in retail (Len's Crafter's etc) and for a few Optometrists. Most Optometric Techs work in Ophthalmology (eye surgeons) offices, either as a surgery assistant, performing refractions and/or contact lens fittings.

The offices I'm aware of where they perform surgery would want their tech's to be CPR certified. Of course this may be an individual policy, not a rule. In CA that would require one 8 hour training per year - in AZ re-certification is every two years.

She might have been a CPR expert and it still would not guarantee Max was going to be saved. Only small percentage of people who receive CPR make it.

 

[SunnieRN]

Help me understand this, why are her legs apart? This is where I scratch my head. Seems for decency sake once cut down her legs would close or someone would do it if RM hadn't set in. So were her legs bent prior to being cut down? LE says she was 2 feet above ground, wouldn't her legs be straight?


I hope this makes sense, I am horrid at explaining things. I remain, as always, confused.

You explained yourself well. With rigor mortis, the body will contract. It is caused by the muscles contracting.

This is from chemical changes that occur in death. This wiki article explains it well.


[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis"]Rigor mortis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[LCoastMom]

As sheriff Gore (somewhat haughtily imho) stated: “ Science is our best witness in this case. It is not biased and it doesn't lie.”

No, but the human shaping of so-called scientific facts into a theory can both be errant and/or even lie. And if the "science" isn't thorough, that can taint conclusions and assumptions along the way. You can't just pretend that human fallibility is part of the equation, not just "Science" grandly representing all on its lonesome, objective truth. Almost as if he wants to separate off the personal factor in the LE work. "Science told us it's suicide and an accident. Case closed."

Yes, he also said he isn’t sure why RZ’s sister and her family still insists there was foul play.

“We laid out the case extensively to them in Missouri to answer their questions, and it’s unfortunate she can’t accept the results,” Gore said. He said he told the family that they would not rush the case.

“I wouldn’t make this public until I was personally satisfied we’d done everything we could,” the sheriff said. The video of the hand-binding re-enactment was also shown to the family, he said.

Is it common for families to just accept a suicide? These comments sound unprofessional and uncaring.

 

[LCoastMom]

She might have been a CPR expert and it still would not guarantee Max was going to be saved. Only small percentage of people who receive CPR make it.

I'm aware of that, I was simply pointing out that I don't believe it's fair to assume she didn't know proper CPR or did the technique incorrectly.

 

[elementry]

I'm aware of that, I was simply pointing out that I don't believe it's fair to assume she didn't know proper CPR or did the technique incorrectly.

Should she have intubated as well? EMS did in their work on MS.

 

[SunnieRN]

<<respectfully snipped>>

I've been a Licensed Optician for almost 25 years, I have worked in retail (Len's Crafter's etc) and for a few Optometrists. Most Optometric Techs work in Ophthalmology (eye surgeons) offices, either as a surgery assistant, performing refractions and/or contact lens fittings.

The offices I'm aware of where they perform surgery would want their tech's to be CPR certified. Of course this may be an individual policy, not a rule. In CA that would require one 8 hour training per year - in AZ re-certification is every two years.

Thank you for your information. cI don't recall Rebecca being a surgical assistant, although I am not sure she was not. I know several technicians, who fit glasses, contacts and administer eye drops. I will have to check with them if they are cpr certified and how often they are trained.

Either way, I do not feel that Rebecca could have performed cpr 'incorrectly', but that with the extent of injuries Max sustained, I have a feeling that one person, alone, with no equipment would have had a difficult time being effective, long term.

 

[branwynbreeze]

You explained yourself well. With rigor mortis, the body will contract. It is caused by the muscles contracting.

This is from chemical changes that occur in death. This wiki article explains it well.


Rigor mortis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks, I completely forgot about that.

 

[LCoastMom]

SBM
I am totally not doubting you at all but do you have a link to where Max said "Ocean" after his fall? I had not read that before. TIA!

chasing.halos I'm sorry I missed your post earlier, I did a quick look again and didn't find the report - I'm on the way out, but I'll look again when I return in a couple of hours if no one else posts it before I return.

ETA: Short delay in leaving, I found it!

Also Tuesday, the autopsy report for Shacknai’s son, Max, was released. The report states that Max went over the second-floor staircase banister, grabbed the crystal chandelier and fell to the ground on July 11. Zahau was the only adult home and was in a bathroom when she heard the crash.

She told investigators that the boy uttered the word “Ocean,” which is the family dog’s name. A scooter was also found lying near him, leading authorities to surmise that the boy may have been running and either tripped on the dog or the scooter, causing the fall.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/sep/06/autopsy-report-reveals-new-details-coronado-mansio/

 

[jjenny]

New article. Looks like the press finally woke up and started asking questions.

""It's the entirety [of the case] that's troubling. And I think to write it off as a suicide, it's premature," said Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, a DNA expert and forensic scientist who heads the Department of Sciences at the City University of New York's John Jay College of Criminal Justice."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/rebecca-zahaus-death-ritualistic-killing-expert/story?id=14463695

 

[IWannaKnow]

Respectfully snipped for space~

Great post!! Think about hitting your leg on the edge of a table.... You think, my gosh, that hurts, I bet I get a bruise. Sure enough a day or two later, you have a bruise. Get yout blood drawn. You don't get a bruise within minutes. Bruising takes time. A matter of hours to days. It depends on the injury of course, but we are not talking about getting hit with a bat or a sledgehammer here.

Thank you. So, in your professional opinion, could injuries incurred during her fall have produced blue contusions (bruises)? Wouldn't those have to occurred before her fall.....minutes to hours before?

I honestly do not feel that a polyp that size would cause the amount of bleeding that is described here. I think this needs to be re examined thoroughly, since an ME could not determine the cause of the bleeding. Isn't that their job?

BBM The only thing is, the report states, from page 14:

The uterine cavity contains a 2.2 x 1.5 x 1.5 cm, pedunculated, reddish-tan polyp. On its surface there is a 1 x 0.6 cm well-circumscribed, tan area. The cut surface is reddish-tan and blends at the base with the adjacent myometrium......

I spent a fair amount of time trying to figure out what they mean by "well-circumscribed tan area" and especially "the cut surface". Does that mean the cut he did to biopsy it? What was the "tan area" and could that have contributed to her bleeding between periods? I'm sorry to be so graphic, but I think this is important and needs to be understood given the blood found in the vagina, on her legs, feet and fingers. The endometrial cavity also contained a "small amount of blood" so how could that not be the polyp? It turned out to be benign FWIW.

Thanks for answering my million questions.

 

[jstwondering]

So, any guesses on whose side Dominick Dunne would be weighing in on this one? There is still precious little (if any, amazingly) reportage on the rarefied social milieu of Coronado and JS, DS and RN's place within it. It would seem there is quite a story there waiting to be uncovered. We don't really know who these people are, for all our theorizing. Local San Diego media will not go into the (naked) truth and underbelly of their own community; they'd rather preserve the patina of glamour and Southern Californian euphoria. Almost an adjunct to the Chamber of commerce. It'll take a Dominick Dunne type to ferret out the social background behind these investigations and deaths and the principals involved.

Oh, I miss him so... Sadly if he were alive, I'm sure a "Cease and Desist" letter would be in the mail addressed to Mr. Dunne, also.

 

[jstwondering]

OK, seriously, the ME can't tell whether she had an IUD or it was her time of the month? Really?

Sister has said numerous times they asked LE about the blood and it was not her time of the month.

And like others have said, if it was, that thoroughly diminishes the odds she would commit suicide nude.

A totally weird question, but any chance she could have been pregnant and miscarried from all the stress that night?

You'd think that's something they would have double-checked but I'm not feeling confident about their reporting here...

...sure would add a twist to the motive....

 

[Curious Me]

She lay there for 12 hours. I know someone a few doors down that could see everything and even has pictures.

OMG! 12 hours!

 

[lauriej]

All I know is that AS did not go to the hospital right away. I do not know if he did later or if AS and JS spent time alone. If I find out I will let you all know.

--according to the ME report, adam went to the hospital---and out to dinner with JS and R immediatley after arriving...

..(i hope this posts correctly!)

 

[SunnieRN]

Respectfully snipped for space~


Thank you. So, in your professional opinion, could injuries incurred during her fall have produced blue contusions (bruises)? Wouldn't those have to occurred before her fall.....minutes to hours before?



BBM The only thing is, the report states, from page 14:


I spent a fair amount of time trying to figure out what they mean by "well-circumscribed tan area" and especially "the cut surface". Does that mean the cut he did to biopsy it? What was the "tan area" and could that have contributed to her bleeding between periods? I'm sorry to be so graphic, but I think this is important and needs to be understood given the blood found in the vagina, on her legs, feet and fingers. The endometrial cavity also contained a "small amount of blood" so how could that not be the polyp? It turned out to be benign FWIW.

Thanks for answering my million questions.

Yes, I believe the bruising had to have occurred prior to her death, but unfortunately I do not know how long prior.

As for the autopsy report concerning the uterus and surrounding area, I think it is referring to the area in general. Even though there is a fibroid in place, there is no evidence of polyps that appear to be cancer.

I am sure he biopsied the area. Tis is why I am surprised that he can not pim point the bleeding as to the cause. I wish I understood this more, and I hope someone comes along that does. To me he is saying there is a fibroid, blood present, the area is not indicative of cancer.

Usually, if women are having breakthrough bleeding, they discuss this with their gynecologist. It can mean a serious problem,or be nothing at all. It sounds like there was much more blood on her legs, feet, hands, then can be explained by a endometrial cavity with a small amount of blood present.

Again, I wish I could answer your questions more thoroughly.

 

[jstwondering]

Yes, he also said he isn’t sure why RZ’s sister and her family still insists there was foul play.

“We laid out the case extensively to them in Missouri to answer their questions, and it’s unfortunate she can’t accept the results,” Gore said. He said he told the family that they would not rush the case.

“I wouldn’t make this public until I was personally satisfied we’d done everything we could,” the sheriff said. The video of the hand-binding re-enactment was also shown to the family, he said.

Is it common for families to just accept a suicide? These comments sound unprofessional and uncaring.

Not to mention arrogant, elitist, condescending, beyond reproach, etc. :maddening: I can imagine him thinking, poor little lady just doesn't understand the science....

 

[SunnieRN]

Iwannaknow, re read your post. In nursing school a well circumcised area, meant that the item looked at has well defined edges. When talking about nodules or tumors in the body, it's a good thing.

 

[Bonepile]

She lay there for 12 hours. I know someone a few doors down that could see everything and even has pictures.

Thanks for that answer. I simply cannot believe that she was exposed to the elements, the sun, the wind, the lack of humidity and the neighbors and the roving reporters from the air for that long. Where was the decency to cover her up? Where was the tent with sides? Where was the concern, the care, the civility?

I think the Zahau family attorney should look into that.

 

[lauriej]

Thanks for that answer. I simply cannot believe that she was exposed to the elements, the sun, the wind, the lack of humidity and the neighbors and the roving reporters from the air for that long. Where was the decency to cover her up? Where was the tent with sides? Where was the concern, the care, the civility?

I think the Zahau family attorney should look into that.

..surely, even though he didn't leave maxie's side, JS was getting updates on R's "situation" ( from AS ?? LE ?? )-----why didn't he demand that "the love of his life that he was planning on proposing to" (as we've heard)----be treated with a little more respect??