CA - Rebecca Zahau Nalepa - suicide or murder? #10

[katydid23]

This is the exact quote, and it was by Dana Gary, Medical Examiner Investigator. The report wasn't written until 8/21/11.

From page 2 of 3 of the Investigative Narrative:


After reading and rereading this statement, I believe that they are saying that one bedroom of the guest house had the women's clothing and make up remover wipes - not the main house. Which only puts a crazier spin on all this. If that was not what they meant, they should have phrased this better. Didn't they question why there would be women's clothing in the guest house?? Was the woman TG allegedly saw on the 12th ever verified or identified?

Except they talk about the woman's clothing on the floor and then they say they walked upstairs and saw the painted door. So that to me sounded like they were in the main house. It is confusing though the way it was crammed together.

 

[elementry]

LE have stated that only DNA from RN was found on rope. AS has stated he found RN hanging and cut her down. His DNA is not found on rope? Well doesn't that suggest that a person can touch the rope and leave no DNA? So how does the fact that only RN's DNA is found on rope proves suicide? The table with a broken leg-when did the leg break? The clothes in the room (on the floor)-whose were they? Was there loud music, and if so, who played it? Is there any evidence RN actually knew how to tie cleat hitch knots? I still have a lot of questions with no answers.

I thought it was said that AS either loosened or untied the bonds around her hands. Did he also attempt to administer CPR? Then his DNA might be on her face and mouth.

 

[tlneedham]

I have to admit, I'm confused by the finding of women's clothes in the guest house. I'm sorry, but if my 13 yo sister was coming to stay with me, no way would I let her be stuck out in a guest house. Who knows what could happen to her?!

Not saying that it's a high crime area or anything, but I think you know what I mean. I would feel super responsible for a sister that young and wouldn't want her that far from me.

Could it have been JS' daughter? Would still be weird for her to be in guest house, but if she didn't get along with RZ then maybe. Or maybe RZ stayed out there when JS' daughter was there? Regardless, the clothes appeared to still be there when ME came through, so whoever it was couldn't have left yet.

Something else I realized...

We've been told AS came out to see Max and support JS. RZ picked him up from airport and took him to hospital to pick up JS and the 3 of them went to dinner.

RZ was not allowed in hospital to see Max and yet she brought AS back to house with her--so did AS even go in to see his nephew after coming all that way?

I guess they could have left her sitting in the car while he went in. Because unless visiting hours were over (and since they had eaten dinner and were supposedly home by 8pm, I have to think he got to the hospital before they did), I can't imagine going all that way and NOT going in to see my nephew that same day.

Granted, he's a man and may think differently.

And boy, if JS was wanting RZ to leave (and we have no actual info confirming that), that sure as heck would have been one awkward dinner. Wouldn't you think he'd just tell his brother he'd pay for a cab to meet him to avoid seeing her instead?

Personally, I'm not convinced he wanted her to leave. But I sure would like to know more about how that dinner went.

Maybe she's a better actress than me. But if it had gone badly, that would have been awfully hard to cover up in a convo to my sister a few hours later.

Just so many questions...

 

[elementry]

Do we have confirmation that she took a shower? In the mansion?

Well, there was a dropped towel (in the hall?) and I thought there was wet residue in the bathroom area.

 

[elementry]

Except they talk about the woman's clothing on the floor and then they say they walked upstairs and saw the painted door. So that to me sounded like they were in the main house. It is confusing though the way it was crammed together.

They were in a 7 week rush to finish and put this to bed before the Labor day weekend.......:waitasec:

All these loose ends are indeed ironic in light of LE's desire to insist this is an "ironclad" closed case.

 

[Quester]

 

[tlneedham]

Make up removal toilets are her sister's too? The sister was 13.

It's possible they could be confusing those face wipes things with makeup removal. But as I said in another post, no way would I let my sister that young stay in a guest house instead of the main house.

But maybe JS' daughter stayed there b/c she didn't like RZ or RZ stayed there while his daughter was there b/c of the issues that may have existed between them.

Or who knows, maybe someone who worked for them and was whisked away before the cops came stayed there. But if it were a housekeeper, I'd think she would have made her own bed.

 

[IWannaKnow]

I thought it was said that AS either loosened or untied the bonds around her hands. Did he also attempt to administer CPR? Then his DNA might be on her face and mouth.

From Page 2 of Investigative Narrative

On 7/13/11, at approximately 0630 hours, Adam exited the guest house into the courtyard area between the guest house and the main house. He immediately saw the decedent hanged by the neck with a rope attached to a second story balcony. Adam ran into the main house to get a knife, pulled a nearby wooden table to the decedent's body, stood on top, cut the rope and laid the decedent's naked body on the grass. He removed a blue cloth which had been in her mouth in an effort to perform CPR and at 0648 hours, placed a 9-1-1 call to request assistance. Coronado Fire Department arrived at 0653 hours and confirmed the death without intervention.

No untying of hands, only cutting down with knife from main house and removal of t-shirt from mouth to attempt CPR.

 

[katydid23]

I have to admit, I'm confused by the finding of women's clothes in the guest house. I'm sorry, but if my 13 yo sister was coming to stay with me, no way would I let her be stuck out in a guest house. Who knows what could happen to her?!

Not saying that it's a high crime area or anything, but I think you know what I mean. I would feel super responsible for a sister that young and wouldn't want her that far from me.

Could it have been JS' daughter? Would still be weird for her to be in guest house, but if she didn't get along with RZ then maybe. Or maybe RZ stayed out there when JS' daughter was there? Regardless, the clothes appeared to still be there when ME came through, so whoever it was couldn't have left yet.

Something else I realized...

We've been told AS came out to see Max and support JS. RZ picked him up from airport and took him to hospital to pick up JS and the 3 of them went to dinner.

RZ was not allowed in hospital to see Max and yet she brought AS back to house with her--so did AS even go in to see his nephew after coming all that way?

I guess they could have left her sitting in the car while he went in. Because unless visiting hours were over (and since they had eaten dinner and were supposedly home by 8pm, I have to think he got to the hospital before they did), I can't imagine going all that way and NOT going in to see my nephew that same day.

Granted, he's a man and may think differently.

And boy, if JS was wanting RZ to leave (and we have no actual info confirming that), that sure as heck would have been one awkward dinner. Wouldn't you think he'd just tell his brother he'd pay for a cab to meet him to avoid seeing her instead?

Personally, I'm not convinced he wanted her to leave. But I sure would like to know more about how that dinner went.

Maybe she's a better actress than me. But if it had gone badly, that would have been awfully hard to cover up in a convo to my sister a few hours later.

Just so many questions...

BBM
That is another possibility. She was 14 and i bet she wore make up at that age. And she did not get along with RN supposedly. And the guest house is right alongside the main house. It is not any more or less dangerous than living in the main house. And apparently, less so.

 

[IWannaKnow]

Is that kool-aid Quester? I'm really thirsty after reading that autopsy report for the 6th time.

 

[tlneedham]

I thought it was said that AS either loosened or untied the bonds around her hands. Did he also attempt to administer CPR? Then his DNA might be on her face and mouth.

He said he did try to give CPR and that's why he loosened the ropes. So yeah, you'd think he'd be up close and personal enough to leave some DNA there. Although if rigor mortis had set into her jaw, you'd think he wouldn't have tried for long.

But I have trouble believing he didn't leave any DNA whatsoever when he cut her down. Guys usually don't have smooth hands, esp. if they work outside.

So you've got one hand gripping a fiber-y rope hard so you don't drop her when you cut through it... and probably another hand that immediately dropped the knife to grab hold of her as soon as the rope was cut...

Did he hold her away from his body as he held her and laid her down in the grass? And do it all without breaking a sweat?

Oh yeah, plus he untied some of the ropes apparently too. So his hands would have been wrestling a bit with the rope to undo the knots...

I guess anything's possible but again, it just seems hard to believe that not a single speck of his DNA was found.

I'm not saying he didn't cut her down and do all this, mind you. But I think it's likely they just didn't look very hard to find other DNA.

 

[AnnaLisa]

Jonathan Lucas, ME releases more information from the autopsy report.

LA Times ... LA Now

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...oronado-death-but-still-label-it-suicide.html

In a release Tuesday, Lucas said there were bruises on Zahau's scalp, a T-shirt had been wrapped around her neck and was stuffed in her mouth, and there was blood on her inner thighs.

Lucas said the bruises were minor and may have been caused when she slipped over the balcony with the rope around her neck.

The T-shirt in the mouth is not unusual, he said. "It is not clear why it was there, although people can place material in her mouth prior to hanging," he said.

The blood was not the result of rape but probably due to an intrauterine device or menstruation, Lucas said.

 

[Quester]

Is that kool-aid Quester? I'm really thirsty after reading that autopsy report for the 6th time.

Why yes it is Kool-aid!

I haven't even finished reading the autopsy report yet and I'm a few pages behind on WS and trying to catch up.

<modsnip>. :innocent:

IMO, MOO, etc, etc, etc

 

[elementry]

So, any guesses on whose side Dominick Dunne would be weighing in on this one? There is still precious little (if any, amazingly) reportage on the rarefied social milieu of Coronado and JS, DS and RN's place within it. It would seem there is quite a story there waiting to be uncovered. We don't really know who these people are, for all our theorizing. Local San Diego media will not go into the (naked) truth and underbelly of their own community; they'd rather preserve the patina of glamour and Southern Californian euphoria. Almost an adjunct to the Chamber of commerce. It'll take a Dominick Dunne type to ferret out the social background behind these investigations and deaths and the principals involved.

 

[tlneedham]

Jonathan Lucas, ME releases more information from the autopsy report.

The blood was not the result of rape but probably due to an intrauterine device or menstruation, Lucas said.

OK, seriously, the ME can't tell whether she had an IUD or it was her time of the month? Really?

Sister has said numerous times they asked LE about the blood and it was not her time of the month.

And like others have said, if it was, that thoroughly diminishes the odds she would commit suicide nude.

A totally weird question, but any chance she could have been pregnant and miscarried from all the stress that night?

You'd think that's something they would have double-checked but I'm not feeling confident about their reporting here...

 

[AnnaLisa]

As Sheriff Bill Gore stated, under California law autopsy reports are a matter of public record.

Full release of information beyond scientific findings is not mandatory. Throughout the 90 minuted press conference, Gore stated there were things of a personal nature he would not divulge.

This may well have been at the request of either or both family's.

 

[elementry]

From Radar:

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusiv...e-investigator-after-max-rebecca-zahau-deaths

Jonah Shacknai Hired Private Investigator After Son And Girlfriend&#8217;s Deaths

Posted on Sep 07, 2011 @ 12:30PM

By Jen Heger - Radar Legal Editor

In the days after Jonah Shacknai's son, Max, and girlfriend, Rebecca Zahau died, he hired a private investigations firm, RadarOnline.com is exclusively reporting.

Shacknai hired San Diego based Elite Services to look into the sudden deaths that rocked his world.

Rebecca Zahau had dropped off her dog, Ocean, at Camp Diggity Dogs for boarding after Max's tragic accident that ultimately resulted in his death.

PHOTOS: Celebrities Who Died In Bizarre Circumstances

Denis Love, a private investigator from Elite Services picked up the dog from the facility days later, multiple sources tell RadarOnline.com.

Ted Greenberg, owner of Camp Diggity Dog tells us, "Jonah called me and said a private investigator, Denis Love was going to pick-up the dog. Jonah said Denis was a good guy and an ex-cop. The private investigator didn't ask me any questions."

"Jonah hired the security firm because he didn't have a grasp on what had happened and he was concerned about the sudden deaths of those close to him," a source close to the situation tells RadarOnline.com.

PHOTOS: Rebecca Zahau And Her Sister Snowem Horwath

Despite the remarkably strange circumstances, Rebecca Zahau's death was ruled a suicide by law enforcement. Rebecca's family doesn't believe she killed herself though, and want cops to re-open the case.

Calls seeking comment to Jonah Shacknai weren't immediately returned.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Does anyone know the souce of the rope, paint, and brush? Were they items belonging to the household? Where is the tape that had been on her legs at some point?

 

[lonetraveler]

Jonathan Lucas, ME releases more information from the autopsy report.

LA Times ... LA Now

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...oronado-death-but-still-label-it-suicide.html

In a release Tuesday, Lucas said there were bruises on Zahau's scalp, a T-shirt had been wrapped around her neck and was stuffed in her mouth, and there was blood on her inner thighs.

Lucas said the bruises were minor and may have been caused when she slipped over the balcony with the rope around her neck.

The T-shirt in the mouth is not unusual, he said. "It is not clear why it was there, although people can place material in her mouth prior to hanging," he said.

The blood was not the result of rape but probably due to an intrauterine device or menstruation, Lucas said.

BBM: This sounds more and more like the Savio case (Drew Peterson's ex-wife) who died in a dry bathtub. When is the SA office going to step in and stop this BS? Why wouldn't the ME know if there was an intrauterine device or if she was menstruation???????? The ME is having to work way to hard to make this look like a suicide. Enough already! :banghead:
IMO, this ME needs to be investigated. I would not be surprised if we learn that he was on the ole payroll on this one. Money talks.

 

[katydid23]

BBM: This sounds more and more like the Savio case (Drew Peterson's ex-wife) who died in a dry bathtub. When is the SA office going to step in and stop this BS? Why wouldn't the ME know if there was an intrauterine device or if she was menstruation???????? The ME is having to work way to hard to make this look like a suicide. Enough already! :banghead:
IMO, this ME needs to be investigated. I would not be surprised if we learn that he was on the ole payroll on this one. Money talks.

I don't think it is fair for us to publicly accuse the ME of accepting bribes or being corrupt. imoo