CA - Rebecca Zahau Nalepa - suicide or murder? #11

[ehough22]

Do we know the length of the balcony (or is it the width? The measurement from the doors to the railing). I have a possible theory on the head wounds but am not sure if it's possible, not knowing the measurements.

And welcome, starbright- I had a similar thought. The rope tied around the bed is very very close to the ground; you'd think her hand would have smudged paint on the carpet there (assuming she painted before she tied, which I realize we don't know). It's just awfully convenient to me that there's paint on her body but not in the other usual places.

Also, regarding Jonah buying off LE- IMO, there's a difference between purposely and knowingly buying off LE, and being influential due to your wealth. I'm not saying that happened here but I can understand that point of view.

 

[SunnieRN]

Sorry, lots of questions. If she leaned over head first. Was any hair caught in the scrolls?

Questions are great!! They help us all think!! I would think the rope should have been behind her, and her hair was under the noose and then wrapped three times with the blue t=shirt also!!!

May your force be strong, so we can solve this mystery!! :welcome:

 

[SunnieRN]

Do we know the length of the balcony (or is it the width? The measurement from the doors to the railing). I have a possible theory on the head wounds but am not sure if it's possible, not knowing the measurements.

And welcome, starbright- I had a similar thought. The rope tied around the bed is very very close to the ground; you'd think her hand would have smudged paint on the carpet there (assuming she painted before she tied, which I realize we don't know). It's just awfully convenient to me that there's paint on her body but not in the other usual places.

Also, regarding Jonah buying off LE- IMO, there's a difference between purposely and knowingly buying off LE, and being influential due to your wealth. I'm not saying that happened here but I can understand that point of view.

I read that it is 27" from the door to the bannister, but LE said 3'. The other measurement came from sleuthers who used her foot prints as a guide for size.

 

[elfie]

Interesting detailed analysis of LE's theory on MS' fall:

9/9 THM: [RZ] case: How [MS]’s accident didn’t happen

There is no way in hell[o] [MS] fell over the railing of the mansion stairwell the way the Coronado police department has depicted it in this model. NO WAY.
...
One thing is certain, [MS] didn’t fall over the rail the way they told the public he did.

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/09/09/rebecca-zahau-case-how-maxs-accident-didnt-happen/

I tend to agree. Rebecca's statement was that Max was told not to ride the Razor scooter in the 2nd floor hallway. If he were riding the scooter and went down the top step and then hit the railing, with the added height of the scooter he may have been propelled up and over with enough force to reach the chandelier and the opposite railing.

In the context of the scooter resting on his shin when he was found, he would have needed to cling to the scooter long enough for it to go over as well in order for it to land on top of him. In that scenario he may have made it to the chandelier, but likely not to the opposite railing.

Did LE think that the scooter was a the bottom of the stairs in the alcove and it tipped on top of him and the end of the fall?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

My goodness, now I KNOW I am having a hard time with my communication skills tonight.

Damage to the bannister, from the force of her body weight and the rope itself on the bannister. I am fairly certain, she did not get 4 blunt force trauma wounds from the bannister. The rope was too long and they are on the TOP of her head.

moo, imho etc.

Oh......I am sorry. I am sure its me......not you. lol Where I am from when the word "bannister" is used it is the railing part for an inside staircase. We call the top part of an outside balcony the 'railing."

Are you talking about the top part of the balcony and not the scrolled encase area enclosing the balcony? It is the scrolled area where I think she hit the top of her head on as she was passing it. I feel she arched her head back when she jumped off.

The rope didn't have anything to do with it. As she went over the top railing she was still in a free fall .........falling past the iron work. If her head was at an angle and tilted back she could have grazed the encased part with one side of her head. The hemorrhages she got were very minor.

 

[arielilane]

I have been following this case from the beginning because of the bazaar circumstances surrounding it. I have been reading many of the posts since the beginning, and this is my first post.

In my opinion, I don't think that it is odd that RZ went shopping on the way to the airport to drop of the younger sister/ pick up AS. She was having an out of town guest who, considering the circumstances for his arrival, probably wouldn't have the time to go on his own to get essentials like O.J. or milk. On top of that, she was dropping off her younger sister, who is only 13 years old and just experianced a very traumatic event. Maybe she wanted to find something to calm this little girl down. In my experiance, when you have the responsibility for the care of a child, even if she is 13...that child's well being comes ahead of your own needs, even in times of hardship. You put that child's needs ahead of your own emotional needs because that is just the right thing to do. In my open, this does not show that RZ had mental problems....it might show that she had ALOT on her plate at that time, and in my opinion even show her strength in a time of tragedy. Seems to me that between the statements thru the media about her taking food and change of clothes up to the hospital, drop off's and pick ups at the airport, and taking care of boarding the dog, that she was the one that was trying to take care of the little details so that no one else had to worry or focus on anything other than MS. This, to me, shows a strength of character not "mental issues".

Welcome to WS, Brit! My sentiments, too. I believe that a lot of this was RZ's life on a typical day and not just with regard to Max's accident. Shop, take kids here and there, fix dinner, pick up this, clean this, and drop this off, etc...

 

[SunnieRN]

Oh......I am sorry. I am sure its me......not you. lol Where I am from when the word "bannister" is used it is the railing part for an inside staircase. We call the top part of an outside balcony the 'railing."

Are you talking about the top part of the balcony and not the scrolled encase area enclosing the balcony? It is the scrolled area where I think she hit the top of her head on as she was passing it. I feel she arched her head back when she jumped off.

The rope didn't have anything to do with it. As she went over the top railing she was still in a free fall .........falling past the iron work. If her head was at an angle and tilted back she could have grazed the encased part with one side of her head. The hemorrhages she got were very minor.

Yeppers, the top part of the railing/bannister. That is the part that I think should have been indented by the force of the rope and her body weight. 600#'s of force is a lot!

If she went off either head first, her head if arched would have been away from the scroll work, and if she went off hip first, her head would have gone over further out, whether she arched her head or not, I think.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I don't remember reading or seeing one thing that the family of RZ ever stated whatsoever that jonah's wealth bought off anyone. I would love to see the links if you have found anything different. I haven't even seen Bremner say anything directly about the JS family.

I have seen Anne say it and she represents the Z family.

Shacknai attorney warns Zahau family attorney to 'cease and desist'

From Jonah Shacknai's attorney:

Dear Ms. Bremner,

I am an attorney for Jonah Shacknai, retained by him to address false public statements you have made, which have the effect of severely damaging Mr. Shacknai's personal and business reputations. Over the past several days, you have made a series of inaccurate and utterly unsupported statements about the facts surrounding the tragic deaths of Max Shacknai and Rebecca Zahau. However, what is most concerning are recent false public statements you have made that Mr. Shacknai, because of his business success, has somehow improperly influenced the investigations and conclusions of four different, and, independent California law enforcement agencies. You have further made public comments that these agencies have applied a different standard in conducting their investigations because of Mr. Shacknai's wealth. You have absolutely no facts to support these false and irresponsible statements, and you are fully aware that such facts do not exist. Please know that your false public statements constitute defamation, per se, and under law, entitle Mr. Shacknai to recover from you, and your law firm, substantial damages.

Much more at link.............

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15406681/shacknai-sends-cease-and-desist-letter-to-zahau-family-attorney

 

[Dr. Know?]

The "She saved him, can you save her" or whatever that was written on the door of the bedroom could it mean, Rebecca saved JS, now can he save her. I'm sure that's already been posted, just catching up.

If RN flipped herself over the railing, she would be going in a forward motion like a foward roll in gym class. Her back wouldn't be arched I don't think in that few seconds of time.

If she stood on the railing of the balcony, did she drop staight down and arch her back?

I still can't buy this suicide. I'm open minded though but not convinced by any means yet.

 

[SophieRose]

I tend to agree. Rebecca's statement was that Max was told not to ride the Razor scooter in the 2nd floor hallway. If he were riding the scooter and went down the top step and then hit the railing, with the added height of the scooter he may have been propelled up and over with enough force to reach the chandelier and the opposite railing.

In the context of the scooter resting on his shin when he was found, he would have needed to cling to the scooter long enough for it to go over as well in order for it to land on top of him. In that scenario he may have made it to the chandelier, but likely not to the opposite railing.

Did LE think that the scooter was a the bottom of the stairs in the alcove and it tipped on top of him and the end of the fall?

Yes, I think that LE thought it was already in the alcove and then tipped on him after the fall. Also if it had gone with him over the railing, I think there would have been evidence of it on the railing. Years and years ago I was riding my bicycle down a trail, didn't see that there was something at the end of it until too late. I was thrown when I hit it but my bicycle did not go over it even with all that speed. I just can't see the scooter having gone over with Max.

But Rebecca said she last saw it on the second floor the day before, so Max must have been very busy in those 10-20 minutes and gone upstairs and brought it downstairs.

 

[deanna82437]

I feel she arched her head back when she jumped off.

The rope didn't have anything to do with it. As she went over the top railing she was still in a free fall .........falling past the iron work. If her head was at an angle and tilted back she could have grazed the encased part with one side of her head. The hemorrhages she got were very minor.

-Respectfully snipped- BBM
But, the the hemorrhages were on the TOP of her head, not the side. I don't see how she could possibly have hit the top of her head how they described her "fall".

 

[belimom]

BBM

Yes, they do. They think Jonah's wealth has bought off four completely different police agencies.

Everyone involved would have to be in on the cover up. Didn't happen imo.

Because of those accusations among other things said by Bremner and the Z family is why JSs attorney found it necessary to write the letter to Anne.

IMO

As someone else said, I don't think there was an actual buy off but more of the intimidation of the wealth and knowing that he could afford the very best lawyers. I really don't believe that there is/was a cover up so much as turning the other way and just taking the easy way out, versus looking at it from all angles.

That is JMHO. I do agree that bonafide cover ups are very rare in LE due to the number of folks who would have to keep quiet. But I think if a case could really go either way - suicide or murder - depending on the evidence and if investigating the case further is left up to someone in charge and they say, "I'm going with suicide. Case closed.", then - that's it. Case closed.

I have no experience personally with LE but that's just my very humble layman's view.

 

[ehough22]

I haven't seen the statements from Bremner, but the statement above goes along with what I said before- there's a difference between buying off LE and a person's wealth influencing the investigation. It appears even his attorney refers to the latter while WSers were referring to the former. Again, not saying that I personally feel that's the case (that his wealth influenced anyone) but I can see where people would look into that. It's a logical question when dealing with a bizarre case involving a millionaire CEO who owns a mansion.

 

[Brit]

I have seen Anne say it and she represents the Z family.

Shacknai attorney warns Zahau family attorney to 'cease and desist'

From Jonah Shacknai's attorney:

Dear Ms. Bremner,

I am an attorney for Jonah Shacknai, retained by him to address false public statements you have made, which have the effect of severely damaging Mr. Shacknai's personal and business reputations. Over the past several days, you have made a series of inaccurate and utterly unsupported statements about the facts surrounding the tragic deaths of Max Shacknai and Rebecca Zahau. However, what is most concerning are recent false public statements you have made that Mr. Shacknai, because of his business success, has somehow improperly influenced the investigations and conclusions of four different, and, independent California law enforcement agencies. You have further made public comments that these agencies have applied a different standard in conducting their investigations because of Mr. Shacknai's wealth. You have absolutely no facts to support these false and irresponsible statements, and you are fully aware that such facts do not exist. Please know that your false public statements constitute defamation, per se, and under law, entitle Mr. Shacknai to recover from you, and your law firm, substantial damages.

Much more at link.............

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15406681/shacknai-sends-cease-and-desist-letter-to-zahau-family-attorney

I have read the statement from his attorney, but i still have not read or seen anything in print or in interviews that anyone in RZ's family suggested that the JS family had anything to do with it. What I have seen is the family and attorney state over and over that they just want the case reopened. I would love to see any links that you might have seen where they have suggested otherwise. Just because his attorney sent that email out, doesn't make it fact. This is what attorney's do, especially attorney's who have clients who own multi-billion dollar companies, who want to protect those interests.

 

[Dr. Know?]

I think it's possible if she was forced to stand on the bannister/railing top of the wrought iron balcony, facing the courtyard and pushed, her back would arch that quickly and her head may hit the bottom of the balcony on the way down before the rope choked her.

 

[arielilane]

Do we know the length of the balcony (or is it the width? The measurement from the doors to the railing). I have a possible theory on the head wounds but am not sure if it's possible, not knowing the measurements.

And welcome, starbright- I had a similar thought. The rope tied around the bed is very very close to the ground; you'd think her hand would have smudged paint on the carpet there (assuming she painted before she tied, which I realize we don't know). It's just awfully convenient to me that there's paint on her body but not in the other usual places.

Also, regarding Jonah buying off LE- IMO, there's a difference between purposely and knowingly buying off LE, and being influential due to your wealth. I'm not saying that happened here but I can understand that point of view.

Excellent post! Now that you know the measurement(s), could you detail your theory? I would love to hear your thoughts. TIA

I read that it is 27" from the door to the bannister, but LE said 3'. The other measurement came from sleuthers who used her foot prints as a guide for size.

Thank you, Sunnie.

 

[Brit]

http://drdrew.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/08/knotting-expert-talks-rebecca-zahau-case/?hpt=dr_bn2

A rope expert was on dr. drew last night, pretty interesting.

 

[belimom]

I thought of some more to say about LE's role.

My brother is a prosecutor and recently talked about a case he had to back away from b/c he realized that it would be next to impossible to prosecute based on the evidence.

So let's look at this case. Hypothetical scenario: LE speaks with the DA and says here's the evidence - what do you think? DA says 'well it could go either way as it's hard to really tell. If we go for murder, who do you think did it? Any motive? Any weapon? Any evidence at the scene pointing to someone?' LE says, 'No real motive. No weapon. No suspect. No real evidence left behind'. So they discuss it some more and even though it's a bizarre scene for a suicide, they decide that under the circumstances, it would be easier to prove how RN could have committed suicide (thus the videos) and why (Max) rather than prove whodunnit and how in a murder scenario.

This is all just from the top of my head so I hope it makes sense...

I do not believe it was suicide but I do believe it would be a very hard case to investigate and to prosecute.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Yeppers, the top part of the railing/bannister. That is the part that I think should have been indented by the force of the rope and her body weight. 600#'s of force is a lot!

If she went off either head first, her head if arched would have been away from the scroll work, and if she went off hip first, her head would have gone over further out, whether she arched her head or not, I think.

I just love debating with you.............you make me think.:crazy:

Yes but those railings are made to support a lot of weight. It looks like at least three or four adults could walk out there and prop their full weight against the railings with no problem.

All I know is I feel the hemorrhages were done in the fall. Since no one saw her fall it is impossible to know what she may have hit on the way down. They weren't blunt force trauma by a perp imo. They were way too minor for that.

IMO

 

[elfie]

Questions are great!! They help us all think!! I would think the rope should have been behind her, and her hair was under the noose and then wrapped three times with the blue t=shirt also!!!

May your force be strong, so we can solve this mystery!! :welcome:

Yes, I think that LE thought it was already in the alcove and then tipped on him after the fall. Also if it had gone with him over the railing, I think there would have been evidence of it on the railing. Years and years ago I was riding my bicycle down a trail, didn't see that there was something at the end of it until too late. I was thrown when I hit it but my bicycle did not go over it even with all that speed. I just can't see the scooter having gone over with Max.

But Rebecca said she last saw it on the second floor the day before, so Max must have been very busy in those 10-20 minutes and gone upstairs and brought it downstairs.

Thanks. I have a problem with the scooter going over too.