CA - Rebecca Zahau Nalepa - suicide or murder? #11

[babette_gladney]

Am disgusted with what I am hearing from Bremner and the Zahaus. While I feel great sympathy for their loss of a beloved family member, their recent conduct will only alienate people, IMO. Bremner is reckless and unprofessional. Deplorable all around.

I'm not following this case on the level of the other astute members here. You guys are expert sleuths. I'm only a San Diegan with Coronado ties who has been taken with this case since the get-go. I have opinions like everyone else.

My heartfelt sympathy to Dina Shacknai.

 

[i.b.nora]

According to Valhall (Hinky Meter), standard doorknob height (even in older, historical homes) is 36" from the floor, and standard interior door height is 80".

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/09/09/rebecca-zahau-case-how-maxs-accident-didnt-happen/

To me, the door in the pic looks to be a five-panel raised panel door.

Here are my calculations:

If Valhall is correct, and the door is a standard 80" door, then subtracting 36" (door knob height) from 80" (door height) leaves 44" of door above the door knob.

When I look @ the painted door pic, it looks like the message was painted at about the halfway mark of the upper portion of the door (22 inches above the door knob), so I'm guestimating that the message was painted at a height of about 58".

Anyone else want to take a crack at it?

I have a five panel door similar in style and age to the one shown in the Spreckels mansion. I would concur with your guesstimate. I think the message was written within an area 56" to 60" from the floor.

Not an unreasonable height for someone Rebecca's height.

 

[Carrington]

Can a "Wrongful Death" lawsuit be far behind......

IMO

 

[elfie]

The party was planned after Max was injured. It allegedly occured the night before Rebecca died. Even though people say they were invited to the party, and neighbors think there was a party, the police don't seem to think the party happened.

This is where I got the information from:

http://coronado.patch.com/articles/trainer-recalls-spreckels-victims-noticeable-limp

Per the article you linked, the trainer says she was planning the party Saturday, before Max's accident. As a result of the accident it was thought to have been canceled.

The report of party going on can be linked to a neighbor's report that loud music was heard around 1:30 am, the night of Rebecca's death. A working theory is that the loud music coincides with the time that Rebecca was incapicitated.

 

[IWannaKnow]

Two things from Sorrell Skye's link:
http://www.examiner.com/us-headline...-was-a-christian-and-knew-only-god-could-save
BBM

“She was like a sister... just a very dear friend. We met through bible college. Actually, she was a correspondent student... I was the administration...” said Memarian.

He then turned to Memarian and said, “Mary couldn’t find any evidence of Rebecca using that kind of block lettering anywhere, ever... Can you make sense of it even?”

Memarian answered, “No. I mean, she was very poetic, and she was an artist of sorts. But... just recently, she wrote me a card, and she never used block lettering. That just wasn’t her.”

Artist of sorts doesn't exactly sound like a painter. Makes me question the paint even more. Very hard to trace paint and brushes unlike other types of writing.

 

[CDS22]

Per the article you linked, the trainer says she was planning the party Saturday, before Max's accident. As a result of the accident it was thought to have been canceled.

The report of party going on can be linked to a neighbor's report that loud music was heard around 1:30 am, the night of Rebecca's death. A working theory is that the loud music coincides with the time that Rebecca was incapicitated.

Yes, you're right. I mis-spoke. I meant to say that the party had been planned prior to Max's injuries, but was to occur the day after he was injured. That's why I specified that authorities believe the party didn't occur.

 

[elfie]

I agree with you! A 5'3" person is not going to write the message higher as a favor to someone reading it..... Especially under stress and without the even flow a marker would have. Who would care about the height at such a moment. Maybe if I was planning a party and had lots of time to think about my guests.
And if a taller person did do it, I can not see him/her writing the message at her lower level to throw us off. I believe the height is the comfortable height of the person who wrote it.

How I wish we could see the actual painted letters. Did the letters show a comfortable, even flow to the paint? I wish they would release this info.
Someone might recognize the letter writing.

Just one more good reason to release the photos in evidence, or not to depending on the level of interest in having the entire case wrapped up, signed, sealed and delivered.

 

[SunnieRN]

I know this was mentioned by someone else, but why didn't that t-shirt have paint on it? Wouldn't that be the last thing you did, stuff that into your mouth just before going over the railing? If she had paint all over her fingers, torso and back even, how did she not get paint on the t-shirt? Dried already?

What would be a logical order for all this?
Take off clothes, leave on floor, go take shower.
Get out of shower, see message on phone.
Read message, freak out.
Go to kitchen, get garbage bag, two knives - just in case
Go to garage - naked - find unused tow rope, add to bag
Back into house for paint and two paint brushes - just in case
Up back stairwell to bedroom with cell phone - naked
Paint message on door
Cut rope into three unequal pieces - why no paint on rope?
Tie longest piece to foot of bed
Sit in chair, on top of blanket in chair, bind feet
Turn chair over getting out of chair
Hop over and put noose around neck
Tie t-shirt over noose and wrap around neck three times
Do elaborate tying of hands, remove one and put behind back
Hop or hobble over to balcony
Hop out to railing without touching anything else
Dive over railing


In writing this out, I realized that I had been thinking she might have put the tshirt on after the shower and saw the phone before she could get further. HOWEVER, that makes me think she would have done the prep in the tshirt. Once again, no paint on shirt and if she tied the noose around her neck then pulled the shirt up to gag herself with, the rope would have been running through the body of the shirt. It wasn't. Why would she tie the shirt around her neck with the sleeves, then wind that around her neck three times and then place it in her mouth? Don't want it to slip?

And what do you think about the fact that this was done in the former "servants quarters"? Is that yet another message? There were other balconies in the home she could have utilized. And the fact that that door to the left of the stairs is sorta the nexus of all of this. The powder room she was using was there, Max fell right outside of it, the only way to the room she used is off this back entryway and it's exterior door opens right out onto the courtyard where she was found. It was also the servants entrance.

Wow, made me stand up and take notice!! I wonder what LE's take on how this transpired goes? I admit I am baffled and I am surprised that LE did not find this a bit more suspicious.

As for those that have no questions, don't think the evidence is important, think this is an open and shut case, all I can say is that if unprofessionals on this board, have this many questions, concerns or disbelief, how do you think Rebecca's family must feel?



She [Mary Zahau] added, “...I think they [investigators] blew it out of proportion by picking out the line where my other sister said she had lost some weight in January... they kind of picked and chose what would support their conclusion of a suicide. They did not look at the whole picture at all.”

http://www.examiner.com/us-headline...-was-a-christian-and-knew-only-god-could-save[/QUOTE]

Interesting that LE wouldn't name the source, calling her sister 'a friend'. If I remember correctly, they said that it involved many conversations? Did Rebecca's sister talk to LE? How did they get the text messages?

Yes, you're right. I mis-spoke. I meant to say that the party had been planned prior to Max's injuries, but was to occur the day after he was injured. That's why I specified that authorities believe the party didn't occur.

Thank you for this. Did you happen to find the quotes by Rebecca on statements about the fall that refuted what I posted? TIA

 

[SunnieRN]

Just one more good reason to release the photos in evidence, or not to depending on the level of interest in having the entire case wrapped up, signed, sealed and delivered.

It would seem that releasing the information could put questions to rest. I don't think the signed, sealed and delivered approach is going so well at this point.:innocent:

 

[CDS22]

Thank you for this. Did you happen to find the quotes by Rebecca on statements about the fall that refuted what I posted? TIA

What quotes are you talking about?

 

[deanna82437]

Well then it wouldn't really be evidence, would it? I guess what I'm saying is that some things are just scientifically true regardless of opinion, and the things that are truly evidence are scientifically sound.

Are you saying that you believe evidence was tampered with?

No, I'm not saying evidence was tampered with, just not totally explained or revealed to the public. I do understand that it might be necessary to keep some "evidence" private. But it seems to be overdone in this case. Once again, JMHO.

 

[CDS22]

No, I'm not saying evidence was tampered with, just not totally explained or revealed to the public. I do understand that it might be necessary to keep some "evidence" private. But it seems to be overdone in this case. Once again, JMHO.

I kind of have been wondering if they're keeping something back, too, but then I wondered if I've been reading too many mystery novels. But they usually do keep something back, don't they?

 

[SunnieRN]

What quotes are you talking about?

From this post:

Today, 12:07 PM
SunnieRN
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,692
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDS22
I'm an artist and can answer the question about acrylic paint. Acrylic paint is a very common medium for artists to use. It can be used for posters, paintings, just about anything. It's a very thick paint that doesn't drip, but it can smear on your hands if you're generous in squeezing it from the tube.

Labels do often come off acrylic paints, if it's a glued label, particularly if it's got a single glued seam, so the lack of label doesn't bother me. In fact, nothing about the claims that Rebecca painted that message seem implausible to me. That doesn't mean that she did do it, just that it's not far fetched to imagine.

I am 5'3" tall and would have no problem painting a message on the same part of the door that Rebecca allegedly did. Again, did she do it? I don't know, but it's not out of the realm of likelihood.

Most artists, when painting signs or words, tend to use block letters, so the block letters aren't an issue either.

I guess the entire problem with this case, in my eyes, is the child's death. If only I could wrap my mind around what truly happened to him, I think everything else would fall into place. But since I can't accept the beginning of the story, I can't get to the ending, or so it seems.

My husband and I have two rambunctious boys. We both have a hard time believing Max's injuries happened the way that Rebecca claims they did. I'm not accusing her or anyone of anything. I just can't believe the child fell the way she claimed he did.
Rebecca did not claim Max's accident happened in any way. She stated she was in the downstairs bathroom and that she heard a crash, went out to find the scene as it was. What claims by Rebecca were you using as reference? Can you please post links to what she siad. TIA

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDS22
The party was planned after Max was injured. It allegedly occured the night before Rebecca died. Even though people say they were invited to the party, and neighbors think there was a party, the police don't seem to think the party happened.

This is where I got the information from:

http://coronado.patch.com/articles/t...oticeable-limp
[

This is the quote from the article:

He said he rarely had long conversations with Zahau, but did so last Saturday, when the woman excitedly discussed a party she was planning for Tuesday, which turned out to be the day before she died.

“She was really stoked about it,” he said.

But two days after Zahau's talk with Holman, Shacknai's 6-year-old son fell down a staircase in the mansion and suffered severe injuries. A kennel owner who visited with Zahau Tuesday said she was deeply shaken by the incident.

Investigators have said they do not believe the party took place.

Detectives briefly returned to the Spreckels mansion Friday, but little else was happening on the property Saturday morning.

Daisies in mixed bouquets sat on the lawn as part of a makeshift memorial. Two vans, one with California plates and another with Arizona plates, were parked in the driveway.


The only articles I have read referenced loud music from 1 to 1"30 am.


And just wanted to add, :welcome: to websleuths!!

 

[SunnieRN]

Curious about something. Does Coronado LE even have a homicide division? Isn't the fact that they don't, the reason that SDSD was called in?

I am curious as to how many people entered the home, prior to an actual homicide team entered and gathered evidence?

 

[i.b.nora]

snip
And what do you think about the fact that this was done in the former "servants quarters"? Is that yet another message? There were other balconies in the home she could have utilized. And the fact that that door to the left of the stairs is sorta the nexus of all of this. The powder room she was using was there, Max fell right outside of it, the only way to the room she used is off this back entryway and it's exterior door opens right out onto the courtyard where she was found. It was also the servants entrance.

There really weren't any other balconies on the main house. Certainly none at all like the one she used.

And, regarding access to the stairway that leads to the "servant's quarters" in the main house: The doorway at the north end of the landing on the main staircase, opens directly to the "servant's quarters" staircase, which goes directly to that guest bedroom and the balcony she used.

See, the door image at hinkymeter

 

[Quester]

9/10 THM: [RZ] Case: [MS] Autopsy Review

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/09/10/rebecca-zahau-case-max-shacknai-autopsy-review/

 

[CDS22]

From this post:

Today, 12:07 PM
SunnieRN
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,692
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDS22
I'm an artist and can answer the question about acrylic paint. Acrylic paint is a very common medium for artists to use. It can be used for posters, paintings, just about anything. It's a very thick paint that doesn't drip, but it can smear on your hands if you're generous in squeezing it from the tube.

Labels do often come off acrylic paints, if it's a glued label, particularly if it's got a single glued seam, so the lack of label doesn't bother me. In fact, nothing about the claims that Rebecca painted that message seem implausible to me. That doesn't mean that she did do it, just that it's not far fetched to imagine.

I am 5'3" tall and would have no problem painting a message on the same part of the door that Rebecca allegedly did. Again, did she do it? I don't know, but it's not out of the realm of likelihood.

Most artists, when painting signs or words, tend to use block letters, so the block letters aren't an issue either.

I guess the entire problem with this case, in my eyes, is the child's death. If only I could wrap my mind around what truly happened to him, I think everything else would fall into place. But since I can't accept the beginning of the story, I can't get to the ending, or so it seems.

My husband and I have two rambunctious boys. We both have a hard time believing Max's injuries happened the way that Rebecca claims they did. I'm not accusing her or anyone of anything. I just can't believe the child fell the way she claimed he did.
Rebecca did not claim Max's accident happened in any way. She stated she was in the downstairs bathroom and that she heard a crash, went out to find the scene as it was. What claims by Rebecca were you using as reference? Can you please post links to what she siad. TIA

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDS22
The party was planned after Max was injured. It allegedly occured the night before Rebecca died. Even though people say they were invited to the party, and neighbors think there was a party, the police don't seem to think the party happened.

This is where I got the information from:

http://coronado.patch.com/articles/t...oticeable-limp
[

This is the quote from the article:

He said he rarely had long conversations with Zahau, but did so last Saturday, when the woman excitedly discussed a party she was planning for Tuesday, which turned out to be the day before she died.

“She was really stoked about it,” he said.

But two days after Zahau's talk with Holman, Shacknai's 6-year-old son fell down a staircase in the mansion and suffered severe injuries. A kennel owner who visited with Zahau Tuesday said she was deeply shaken by the incident.

Investigators have said they do not believe the party took place.

Detectives briefly returned to the Spreckels mansion Friday, but little else was happening on the property Saturday morning.

Daisies in mixed bouquets sat on the lawn as part of a makeshift memorial. Two vans, one with California plates and another with Arizona plates, were parked in the driveway.


The only articles I have read referenced loud music from 1 to 1"30 am.


And just wanted to add, :welcome: to websleuths!!

Thanks for the welcome and for repeating your question.

I was referring to Rebecca's statements to the authorities that she had found Max unresponsive, yet she says she heard him say "Ocean". Was he nonresponsive, or was he talking and then became nonresponsive? It really can't be both ways.

Also, she says she was in a downstairs bathroom, I believe, but only heard a crash and found Max at the bottom of the stairs. My husband and I were discussing this. When our kids are running aroun, we can hear them, particularly if they are a floor above us. If Max was riding his scooter around upstairs, she could have heard the wheels. Whenever our kids would try to roll something around with wheels upstairs, the sound would be really noticeable. If the area was uncarpeted upstairs, the noises would be even louder. If there was carpeting, there would be enough traction that Max couldn't slip over the top of the rail even if he tripped over the dog or while riding his scooter.

So that's what I find unbelievable. There can't be silence then sudden noise. Something that causes that much of a violent fall makes some discernible sound, particularly if it happens a floor above.

The answer could be that Rebecca wasn't a good witness. Some people just aren't. Perhaps she wasn't articulate, either due to a language barrier or fear. Perhaps she just isn't a naturally observant person. But I'd think that an accident that resulted in a child's death would produce more than a single sound.

 

[cynic]

Cynic my friend!!!! It's so VERY good to see you!! I sent some posters here to check out your DNA post on the JonBenet forum, as we were talking about touch DNA on the rope that Rebecca was hung with. I guess in all honesty I should say lack of touch DNA.

Even though AS, JS brother admits to cutting Rebecca down, they found none of his DNA on the rope.

Now, as for Rebeccas injuries,she had several injuries to her neck, but I was interested more die to the fact that they were mostly on the left side. If she truly went over the balcony the way that LE states (over head first, where the 11" area on the balcony rail is messed up", the injuries should be about even on both sides. Correct?

Thanks for the awesome welcome Sunnie, and sorry for taking so long in getting back to this.
You’re right; the majority of the internal neck injuries were on the left, which may be explained be the knot of the noose being toward the right of the neck as is suggested in the autopsy report.
A centralized knot would produce relatively equal, bilateral, internal injuries.
A knot on the right will tilt the body and concentrate injuries on the left side of the neck.
(No CPR manikins were injured in this reconstruction )

 

[cynic]

Does anyone know the height of the railing on the balcony, I’ve been trying to calculate it by comparing it to the evidence ruler and am coming up with around 45”

 

[katydid23]

Precisely. She does know and no one knows what she told the lawyer.



Has anyone on this board ever spoken, only to realize that what you said, may be misinterpreted, or should have been left unsaid, or may not have come across the way you meant it too?

Rebecca's family, is not media savvy, they are not used to the words they say being broadcast around the world.

They are upset, grieving and I believe that Rebecca's sister, while speaking out of turn, was trying to say how much Rebecca loved Max and that he loved her also.

I haven't heard that she was vicious in the way she said it.

I disagree. Why would she throw in the part about Dina trying to prevent RN from attending his soccer games because she was so jealous of how much Max loved her? I think that is pretty 'vicious' to say about a mother who just lost her only child, especially while RN was supposed to be watching him. imoo