CA - Rebecca Zahau Nalepa - suicide or murder? #11

[JBean]

Would you be kind enough to list them in one reply? It would make it much easier to go there all at once on the ones we want to go to.

Thanks for everything you do. Very much appreciated.

Obviously I missed what you posted earlier .. sorry

Here ya go:

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=456"]Rebecca Zahau Nalepa - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Bonepile]

Here ya go:

Rebecca Zahau Nalepa - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

THANKS very much.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

SunnieRN

Morning......

Snipping your long post to address what you replied to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oceanblueeyes
I don't think she hit it that hard to do any damage to the railing/wall. The hemorrhaging under her scalp was minor so the impact wasn't that hard, imo.

IMO
SunnieRN:
This argument has been refuted and discussed prior. The impacts were hard enough to bring about a loss of consciousness, per medical examiners and doctors.

*********************************************************
How has it been refuted? There is no way from anyone to know if unconsciousness occurred although I hope it did where she would already be unconscious after she struck the iron work when going over before the noose tightened.

Just because she struck iron work does not mean the iron work has to have damage. The iron work is much stronger than her scalp area. Much much stronger and even though it may have needed sandblasting and painted again the balcony was not in bad shape. This kind of iron work can last for many years. It can be found in homes that are built in the 1800s and still is there today.

My husband in a rush has even hit his head on a wooden cabinet door... not only giving him hemorrhages under the scalp but splitting the scalp. However no damage was done to the cabinet door.

So imo it has not been refuted. There is no reason why a person's scalp grazing iron wound dent the iron.

Even Dr. Spitz said she could have struck her head because when she first jumped she would go straight down past the balcony enclosure before the nose tightened below it.

IMO

 

[Brit]

http://drdrew.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/08/knotting-expert-talks-rebecca-zahau-case/?hpt=dr_t5

This whole thing seems so well planned out. Too planned out for someone who has no knowledge of how to do this. It's been stated that what triggered her "suicide" is the mysterious voicemail informing her of MS turn for the worst. I believe the LE stated that there were no searches on hanging done on her computer. So how would she even know how to do this? The knotting expert on Dr. Drew stated how impossible it would have been for her to bind her hands the way they were behind her back.

Also, the shirt. She had tiny traces of "black material" on a few fingers, but also paint on her chest and back. wouldn't she have more paint on her fingers if she also had paint elsewhere? Wouldn't there be paint on the shirt as well?

I wonder if the shirt was possibly used to strangle her into unconciousness at first and then put over the noose to use as a gag. Hence no strangulation marks.

Also, what confuses me is the lack of footprints on the balcony. Wouln't she atleast go out to the balcony to measure the rope over the railing to be sure it was the proper length needed? Wouldn't she need to shuffle along the balcony if she did this herself since her legs were bound? There were only partial heel prints at the very front of the balcony where the door is. The lack of any other footprint or disturbance of dust on the balcony, to me, shows that this whole thing was done too carefully for it to be a suicide. I really don't believe that anyone who was doing this themselves would even think of this detail.

 

[CDS22]

http://drdrew.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/08/knotting-expert-talks-rebecca-zahau-case/?hpt=dr_t5

This whole thing seems so well planned out. Too planned out for someone who has no knowledge of how to do this. It's been stated that what triggered her "suicide" is the mysterious voicemail informing her of MS turn for the worst. I believe the LE stated that there were no searches on hanging done on her computer. So how would she even know how to do this? The knotting expert on Dr. Drew stated how impossible it would have been for her to bind her hands the way they were behind her back.

Also, the shirt. She had tiny traces of "black material" on a few fingers, but also paint on her chest and back. wouldn't she have more paint on her fingers if she also had paint elsewhere? Wouldn't there be paint on the shirt as well?

I wonder if the shirt was possibly used to strangle her into unconciousness at first and then put over the noose to use as a gag. Hence no strangulation marks.

Also, what confuses me is the lack of footprints on the balcony. Wouln't she atleast go out to the balcony to measure the rope over the railing to be sure it was the proper length needed? Wouldn't she need to shuffle along the balcony if she did this herself since her legs were bound? There were only partial heel prints at the very front of the balcony where the door is. The lack of any other footprint or disturbance of dust on the balcony, to me, shows that this whole thing was done too carefully for it to be a suicide. I really don't believe that anyone who was doing this themselves would even think of this detail.

You're assuming she's never done this before. Obviously, she'd never killed herself before, but she might have engaged in breath play before. There are some people on Jezebel who say that the way she was bound and the blue shirt around her neck are common erotic asphyxiation signs. That doesn't mean that Rebecca ever engaged in that before, or that she knew how to bind herself. But it also doesn't mean the opposite, either. (Not suggesting she died from erotic asphixiation. I am saying she might have engaged in it before and known how to bind herself quite easily.)

 

[Brit]

You're assuming she's never done this before. Obviously, she'd never killed herself before, but she might have engaged in breath play before. There are some people on Jezebel who say that the way she was bound and the blue shirt around her neck are common erotic asphyxiation signs. That doesn't mean that Rebecca ever engaged in that before, or that she knew how to bind herself. But it also doesn't mean the opposite, either. (Not suggesting she died from erotic asphixiation. I am saying she might have engaged in it before and known how to bind herself quite easily.)

I agree that is a possibility. Or another thought is that this could have been staged to look like that.

I am still confused by the balcony details.....

Also, I believe that there was blood found on her fingers as well. From where?

 

[CDS22]

I agree that is a possibility. Or another thought is that this could have been staged to look like that.

I am still confused by the balcony details.....

Also, I believe that there was blood found on her fingers as well. From where?

I thought the blood was on her big toe. I assumed it was from the blood dripping down her legs, which someone else explained on one of the earliest threads on this topic. (Apparently in a hanging death, blood engorges in the vaginal area). They don't mean bleeding on the outside of her body anywhere. For example, the head wounds were beneath the scalp and didn't drip blood. She also had no defence wounds.

 

[Brit]

SunnieRN

Morning......

Snipping your long post to address what you replied to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oceanblueeyes
I don't think she hit it that hard to do any damage to the railing/wall. The hemorrhaging under her scalp was minor so the impact wasn't that hard, imo.

IMO
SunnieRN:
This argument has been refuted and discussed prior. The impacts were hard enough to bring about a loss of consciousness, per medical examiners and doctors.

*********************************************************
How has it been refuted? There is no way from anyone to know if unconsciousness occurred although I hope it did where she would already be unconscious after she struck the iron work when going over before the noose tightened.

Just because she struck iron work does not mean the iron work has to have damage. The iron work is much stronger than her scalp area. Much much stronger and even though it may have needed sandblasting and painted again the balcony was not in bad shape. This kind of iron work can last for many years. It can be found in homes that are built in the 1800s and still is there today.

My husband in a rush has even hit his head on a wooden cabinet door... not only giving him hemorrhages under the scalp but splitting the scalp. However no damage was done to the cabinet door.

So imo it has not been refuted. There is no reason why a person's scalp grazing iron wound dent the iron.

Even Dr. Spitz said she could have struck her head because when she first jumped she would go straight down past the balcony enclosure before the nose tightened below it.

IMO

Was there hair left on the ironwork? This girl looks like she had a ton of hair, I would think that a few would be left on the railing.

I wonder if the masterbed was made or unmade? I wonder if she was sleeping when attacked. I've read that the marks on her head were on the top of the head, not back or side. If she was sleeping and attacked, could someone have banged her head on the headboard? I read that there were for separate marks on her head.

 

[SunnieRN]

You're assuming she's never done this before. Obviously, she'd never killed herself before, but she might have engaged in breath play before. There are some people on Jezebel who say that the way she was bound and the blue shirt around her neck are common erotic asphyxiation signs. That doesn't mean that Rebecca ever engaged in that before, or that she knew how to bind herself. But it also doesn't mean the opposite, either. (Not suggesting she died from erotic asphixiation. I am saying she might have engaged in it before and known how to bind herself quite easily.)

Or someone else, familiar with the 'art' used the AEA model to kill Rebecca.

I agree that is a possibility. Or another thought is that this could have been staged to look like that.

I am still confused by the balcony details.....

Also, I believe that there was blood found on her fingers as well. From where?

I have wondered a lot about the blood on her fingers and feet as well. This entire case is full of unanswered questions.

 

[deanna82437]

You're assuming she's never done this before. Obviously, she'd never killed herself before, but she might have engaged in breath play before. There are some people on Jezebel who say that the way she was bound and the blue shirt around her neck are common erotic asphyxiation signs. That doesn't mean that Rebecca ever engaged in that before, or that she knew how to bind herself. But it also doesn't mean the opposite, either. (Not suggesting she died from erotic asphixiation. I am saying she might have engaged in it before and known how to bind herself quite easily.)

Do you have a link? TIA

 

[CDS22]

Or someone else, familiar with the 'art' used the AEA model to kill Rebecca.



I have wondered a lot about the blood on her fingers and feet as well. This entire case is full of unanswered questions.

Can you please link me to where it says she had blood on her fingers? I have only seen it mentioned that she had paint on her fingers.

 

[Brit]

I thought the blood was on her big toe. I assumed it was from the blood dripping down her legs, which someone else explained on one of the earliest threads on this topic. (Apparently in a hanging death, blood engorges in the vaginal area). They don't mean bleeding on the outside of her body anywhere. For example, the head wounds were beneath the scalp and didn't drip blood. She also had no defence wounds.

No defense wounds is the reason why I wonder if she was sleeping and attacked.

I believe there was blood on a finger or two....have to go back and read AR.

 

[CDS22]

Do you have a link? TIA

A link to what specifically? The Jezebel comments about breath play? Links that explain breath play? Links of photos that illustrate how one can self-bind?

 

[CDS22]

No defense wounds is the reason why I wonder if she was sleeping and attacked.

I believe there was blood on a finger or two....have to go back and read AR.

Wouldn't she have had defence wounds even if she'd been attacked while sleeping? You know how it's instinct to raise your hands if you can't breathe. Plus wouldn't there be signs of a struggle? Bruises on her arms from being restrained?

 

[SunnieRN]

SunnieRN

Morning......

Snipping your long post to address what you replied to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oceanblueeyes
I don't think she hit it that hard to do any damage to the railing/wall. The hemorrhaging under her scalp was minor so the impact wasn't that hard, imo.

IMO
SunnieRN:
This argument has been refuted and discussed prior. The impacts were hard enough to bring about a loss of consciousness, per medical examiners and doctors.

*********************************************************
How has it been refuted? There is no way from anyone to know if unconsciousness occurred although I hope it did where she would already be unconscious after she struck the iron work when going over before the noose tightened.

Just because she struck iron work does not mean the iron work has to have damage. The iron work is much stronger than her scalp area. Much much stronger and even though it may have needed sandblasting and painted again the balcony was not in bad shape. This kind of iron work can last for many years. It can be found in homes that are built in the 1800s and still is there today.

My husband in a rush has even hit his head on a wooden cabinet door... not only giving him hemorrhages under the scalp but splitting the scalp. However no damage was done to the cabinet door.

So imo it has not been refuted. There is no reason why a person's scalp grazing iron wound dent the iron.

Even Dr. Spitz said she could have struck her head because when she first jumped she would go straight down past the balcony enclosure before the nose tightened below it.

IMO

He said he may have struck her head, but that the linear hemorrhages were bad enough to have caused her to lose consciousness. I would think it she hit anywhere that hard on the balcony with the top of her head, it is because someone had her positioned to cause that to happen when they dropped her.

 

[Brit]

Wouldn't she have had defence wounds even if she'd been attacked while sleeping? You know how it's instinct to raise your hands if you can't breathe. Plus wouldn't there be signs of a struggle? Bruises on her arms from being restrained?

Think about it. if she was in a deep sleep and pounced on she wouldn't have any time to defend herself....especiall if she was a stomach sleeper.

 

[deanna82437]

A link to what specifically? The Jezebel comments about breath play? Links that explain breath play? Links of photos that illustrate how one can self-bind?

All of the above, but mainly the Jezebel comments. Your comments should be documented or stated they are your opinion only. TIA

 

[Brit]

Wouldn't she have had defence wounds even if she'd been attacked while sleeping? You know how it's instinct to raise your hands if you can't breathe. Plus wouldn't there be signs of a struggle? Bruises on her arms from being restrained?

I believe there were abrasions on her hands.

 

[CDS22]

All of the above, but mainly the Jezebel comments. Your comments should be documented or stated they are your opinion only. TIA

Here you go:

The Jezebel comments are found in this thread:

http://jezebel.com/5837843/does-this-sound-like-a-suicide-to-you

Specifically these 2 comments:

drunkexpatwriter @ad_infinitum I'm not trying to blame her and I'm saying she might not be a victim at all. What I base my theory on is that when I was a journalist I spent 10 years covering cops and courts and about twice a year this type of situation would come up and the cops and prosecutors would put out a press release calling it suicide, the other reporters and I would say "seems like a pretty weird suicide" and the cops would then tell us that it was a sex game or masturbation game gone bad and they were trying to protect the family and that technically speaking it is a suicide, so this was the way they could spare the family without outright lying.

The combination here that points me strongly in this direction is the fact that she was naked and the T-shirt (which is commonly used in breath play, because it's safer than an actual noose and protects the neck from bruising.)

In general, if you hang yourself with the intent to kill yourself you don't get naked and you don't care about bruising and it's pretty hard to get a woman to strip and let you tie her up that way before you murder her, so an actual murderer probably wouldn't go to the trouble to get her naked since her being nude is a lot more effort and does nothing to make it look more like a suicide.

drunkexpatwriter Wed 07 Sep 2011 12:10 PM When breath play goes bad, the cops often list it as a suicide (which it technically is, even if your sex partner ties your hands for you, since you step into the noose on your own accord) and then don't elaborate because they don't want to tell family members "your son/daughter died playing a kinky sex game."

When face sitting goes bad they tend to list it as "cardiac failure" which is true and nicer than saying "His girlfriend accidentally suffocated him with her vagina.)

Here's the link with self-bondage photos:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-bondage

And here's the link with a list of just a few of the people who have died from breath play(Scroll down to "Famous Cases"):

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erotic_asphyxiation"]Erotic asphyxiation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Sada_Abe.jpg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b5/Sada_Abe.jpg/220px-Sada_Abe.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/b/b5/Sada_Abe.jpg/220px-Sada_Abe.jpg[/ame]

 

[CDS22]

I believe there were abrasions on her hands.

Could you please link me to that?