I looked back at my spreadsheet and saw that I contacted Aransas PD on 05/29/2020 and did not actually "leave a message." I left my contact information with the person who answered the phone so that they could pass my contact info on to a Captain, not the Chief. @Nauticalguy I contacted Aransas Pass PD TODAY (08/24/2020) and they again took my contact information to leave on the Captain's desk. Hopefully I will hear from him soon.
CA CA - Tujunga, Hisp/AsianFem 440UFCA, 14-24, wig & St Christopher medallion, Aug'94
- Thread starter Babyslims
- Start date
I still have not heard back from Aransas Pass PD. I will contact them on Monday (08/31/2020) if I have not heard back from them yet.
I have some updates for this Jane Doe. Some are frustrating, interesting, and promising all at once. I'm going to post these updates as individual comments so that we can discuss each part in full.
I have some updates for this Jane Doe. Some are frustrating, interesting, and promising all at once. I'm going to post these updates as individual comments so that we can discuss each part in full.
Here are some things that I learned from the Los Angeles County Medical Examiner-Coroner's (LACMEC) ID Unit. There is some very serious misinformation out there about this Jane Doe's distinguishing characteristics. In fact, it's so serious it could definitely be detrimental to the search for her identity. For example, if a family member were to be searching for a missing loved one and the family "mentally ruled out" this Jane Doe out based on the misinformation that is out there.
The LACMEC's ID Unit said that (in their opinion), none of the three sketches of Jane Doe look like Jane Doe. They said that there are similarities between the sketches and Jane Doe, but none of the sketches are a good duplication of her.
Below is the misinformation that somehow ended up online / important information that was left out online / things that should have been specified online about Jane Doe. I'm attaching the partial coroner's report that was sent to me by LACMEC's ID Unit (they could not release the entire report since it is a homicide).
MOLES
Contrary to what is stated on NCMEC and Doe Network, and by the Forensic Artist (of the sketch of Jane Doe that is in my signature) in an abc7 article, there were NO MOLES on Jane Doe’s forehead (per the LACMEC's ID Unit).
I sent the abc7 article to the LACMEC's ID Unit, and after reviewing the article they said that what the Forensic Artist was seeing on Jane Doe's forehead were "burn artifacts."
DENTALS
Contrary to what is stated by the Forensic Artist in the abc7 article, there is NO GAP between Jane Doe's two front teeth (per the LACMEC's ID Unit).
Jane Doe's teeth were shifted to the right. The space between her upper two front teeth was shifted to the right of the mid-line of her face/nose (per the LACMEC's ID Unit).
The info about the teeth being shifted to the right was not included in any online sources. I think that needs to be included because that is a very distinguishing characteristic. Would you agree?
SCAR
The artist sketch depicts the scar as being in the middle of Jane Doe's forehead. However, according to LACMEC's ID Unit, the scar is "right below her hairline (at least an inch above the eyebrow)."
Below is an image of a close-up of the scar in the artist's sketch. LACMEC's ID Unit verified that this is from an artist's sketch and that it is not an actual photo of Jane Doe.
The LACMEC's ID Unit said that (in their opinion), none of the three sketches of Jane Doe look like Jane Doe. They said that there are similarities between the sketches and Jane Doe, but none of the sketches are a good duplication of her.
Below is the misinformation that somehow ended up online / important information that was left out online / things that should have been specified online about Jane Doe. I'm attaching the partial coroner's report that was sent to me by LACMEC's ID Unit (they could not release the entire report since it is a homicide).
MOLES
Contrary to what is stated on NCMEC and Doe Network, and by the Forensic Artist (of the sketch of Jane Doe that is in my signature) in an abc7 article, there were NO MOLES on Jane Doe’s forehead (per the LACMEC's ID Unit).
I sent the abc7 article to the LACMEC's ID Unit, and after reviewing the article they said that what the Forensic Artist was seeing on Jane Doe's forehead were "burn artifacts."
DENTALS
Contrary to what is stated by the Forensic Artist in the abc7 article, there is NO GAP between Jane Doe's two front teeth (per the LACMEC's ID Unit).
Jane Doe's teeth were shifted to the right. The space between her upper two front teeth was shifted to the right of the mid-line of her face/nose (per the LACMEC's ID Unit).
The info about the teeth being shifted to the right was not included in any online sources. I think that needs to be included because that is a very distinguishing characteristic. Would you agree?
SCAR
The artist sketch depicts the scar as being in the middle of Jane Doe's forehead. However, according to LACMEC's ID Unit, the scar is "right below her hairline (at least an inch above the eyebrow)."
Below is an image of a close-up of the scar in the artist's sketch. LACMEC's ID Unit verified that this is from an artist's sketch and that it is not an actual photo of Jane Doe.
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Wow!! That is great and very important info @WebSleuth91. You rock! And actually quit sad that this wrong info is out there all over the place.
What would happen if somebody merges the recons? We have members who are very good in that. Or maybe @CarlK90245 can give it a shot if he has the time. Of course a recon is always an estimate of how somebody looked like in life and very rarely spot on. They should show the brought characteristics of a face. Going by the known recons of this Jane Doe especially the lips stand out to me. Depending on the recon you look at she looks more negroid (something about the nose combined with the lips, middle pic) In the other more Asian/Hispanic (left) I don't know what to think of the right recon. Her face is much longer, lips not so pronounced and what to think of the hair/hairline? Is it the wig?
I wonder if the lips are depicted right in the middle and left recons. Also the structure of the hair is important. Depending on her decent it would be more straight, wavy or Creole (or a mix) What is the description of the hair besides long and black?
I don't get a very good idea of what "teeth shifted to the right" mean. Does it mean her two front teeth are not in the middle, placed more to the right? Or are the teeth grown skew, directing to the right? It would be very nice if a picture of the dentals was available. No gap.....hmmmm, very important to know. There goes a good identifier.
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Out of the box.
Stacey Haunani Kelekoma – The Charley Project
Pacific Islander, missing since 1986 from Anahola, Hawaii, 14 yrs (would have been ca. 20 in 1994)
I wouldn't have thought of her, but...
Later in 1986, a flight attendant claimed he had seen Stacey in California. The possible sighting has never been confirmed. Stacey's case remains unsolved.
Stacey Haunani Kelekoma – The Charley Project
Pacific Islander, missing since 1986 from Anahola, Hawaii, 14 yrs (would have been ca. 20 in 1994)
I wouldn't have thought of her, but...
Later in 1986, a flight attendant claimed he had seen Stacey in California. The possible sighting has never been confirmed. Stacey's case remains unsolved.
That is good to know! I think the user would definitely need to spend some time talking to LACMEC's ID Unit since they said that none of the sketches are a good duplication of her.
I thought about @CarlK90245 because I have not seen a reconstruction of this Jane Doe by him. Again, I think whoever does the reconstruction would need to spend a lot of time talking with LACMEC's ID Unit since they said none of the sketches are a good duplication of her and since there is so much misinformation out there about this Jane Doe's distinguishing characteristics.
I asked the LACMEC'S ID Unit about her lips and they said that she did appear to have full lips BUT they can swell after death due to trauma.
I also thought she looked to be different races based on the sketch. Honestly, all of the sketches look like a different person.
Maybe the hairline in the construction on the right is depicting the wig.
The only description of her hair that I have seen is that it was shoulder-length "dark brown to black" hair tied back with a rubber band and that she was wearing a shoulder-length dark brown "New Born Free" wig over her actual hair.
From my interpretation, it sounds like her two front teeth are not in line with the middle of her face/nose. If you were standing face-to-face with her and looking at the middle of her two front teeth, then the middle of her two front teeth would not be in line with the midline of her face/nose. The middle of her two front teeth would be closer to the right side of her nose.
Out of the box.
Stacey Haunani Kelekoma – The Charley Project
Pacific Islander, missing since 1986 from Anahola, Hawaii, 14 yrs (would have been ca. 20 in 1994)
I wouldn't have thought of her, but...
Later in 1986, a flight attendant claimed he had seen Stacey in California. The possible sighting has never been confirmed. Stacey's case remains unsolved.
I already have her on my spreadsheet. I promise that I do not have every person in NamUs as a potential match LOL. I know that several of the possible match suggestions that you've made were already on my list (Blanca Elisa Roberson, Marjorie Knox, Stacey Kelekoma).
It took me several weeks but I went through every female in NamUs that went missing from January 1, 1970 - August 7, 1994. So I have many people on that list. Some being a higher probability match than others.
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I have a lot of time open these days (thanks COVID!) so I might reach out to them about reconstructing Tujunga Jane Doe. Not sure how to go about it, though.
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I'm not sure what you are trying to say with the above. It feels like "no need, I have everything under control" I appreciate your hard work, but I thought the purpose of this forum was about working together on a case. Looking at things with different eyes, different experiences has a added value IMO. That's the reason I bring up very well-balanced suggestions. If you don't need suggestions about possible matches, what is it you want me to help you with?
Oh no! I'm sorry it came across negatively. What I mean is that you and I think alike! We see some of the same missing people as potential matches. Please continue to suggest missing people that you see that could be a potential match. I know you have been doing this stuff longer than I have and I'm definitely learning from you
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Oh no! I'm sorry it came across negatively. What I mean is that you and I think alike! We see some of the same missing people as potential matches. Please continue to suggest missing people that you see that could be a potential match. I know you have been doing this stuff longer than I have and I'm definitely learning from you
Ok, sorry for getting you wrong.It's all good!
Some more info about Jane Doe's appearance that I spoke to LACMEC's ID Unit about:
- Her teeth appear to be normal size (I asked the ID Unit if she had large teeth bc they appeared that way (to me) in one of the sketches)
- Her teeth are a little crooked. (This was noted in some of the online profiles but I wanted to verify it with the ID Unit since there is so much misinformation out there.)
- Appears to have full lips BUT they can swell after death due to trauma. (I know I mentioned this in an earlier comment but I wanted to add it again since that seems to be a prominent facial feature of this Jane Doe.
@Nauticalguy I still have not heard back from Aransas Pass PD so I am going to call the agency handling the Jane Doe case tomorrow to submit Elisa as a potential match. If they tell me that Elisa's dentals are not in NamUs, I'll contact Aransas Pass PD again.
@Bit of hope I found some archived articles about this Jane Doe:
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-08-09-me-25114-story.html?_amp=true
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-08-17-me-28081-story.html?_amp=true
@Bit of hope I found some archived articles about this Jane Doe:
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-08-09-me-25114-story.html?_amp=true
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-08-17-me-28081-story.html?_amp=true
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Good finds @WebSleuth91 The golf course seems to be somewhat in the middle of a few cities (doesn't have to say anything btw, she could be from anywhere)
خرائط Google
To be honest; it's much closer to Los Angeles then I had pictured in my mind.
خرائط Google
To be honest; it's much closer to Los Angeles then I had pictured in my mind.
I found on Google Maps where I think Jane Doe’s body may have been discovered. See screenshots below.
An archived abc7 article about the case says:
"On a stretch of road in the Angeles National Forest, beyond a yellow guard rail is a patch of dirt where more than 15 years ago a young woman's body was set on fire and left to burn like a pile of trash."
In the coroner's report (which I'm attaching) and on Doe Network, it is noted that Jane Doe was found "½ mile east of the 210 freeway off ramp."
In the photos, you see what appears to be remnants of a yellow guardrail and a "vehicle turn-out area” (the "vehicle turn-out area” is mentioned in the coroner’s report).
The only inconsistency I see is that the coroner’s report lists "91352" and Google Maps lists "91042" as the ZIP code of the address in the screenshots.
Thoughts?
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Thanks for the additional pictures. Sad to see them...knowing a girl was dumped there just like that and set afire. I wonder, why there? It looks a kind of risky place to dump a body, considering someone could come down the path from up the hill. Or maybe the killer knew that wouldn't be the case. What is up there....? For me it's always important to see the broad surroundings of a scene. Asking myself what would be a "kind of logical" way and from where would you drive to get to that place or get away from it. Near an off-ramp (is exit 14 correct?) seems logical to me....according to the coroner report (many thanks for posting this) she was found on the northbound site, which means the car was going in the direction of San Fernando?
I wouldn't give that much attention to the zip-code difference or do you think it's important?
My thoughts on the coroner's report.
She is described as Caucasian. Should we reconsider the Latino/Asian/Philippine angle? I'm not sure. Where is this coming from, just by view of the recons, that reportedly don't depict her right in any of them, according to the investigator. (only the lips)? Nothing about homicide by strangulation, as noted in the Doe network file. Actually no traumatic injuries noted in the C-report, besides slight trauma in the mouth. No cause of death mentioned. When they found her, her tongue was sticking out and she clamped it tightly with her teeth. What to conclude from that? The tongue often sticks out after you have died, due to bloating, but I guess this is in "relaxed" state of the body. Is this where the strangulation theory is coming from? Don't know what to make of it. Possible pigmentation in the face, prior to burning, mentioned. We know now this are most like burn artefacts instead (as for the detective). No soot in either mouth or nose. Seems to me she didn't inhale and she was diseased, before set on fire. No eye color mentioned in the C-report. In the Namus file they say brown. Brown is genetically dominant, considering her hair color, but is this an estimate?
Did they do a toxicology report? Is this even possible when a body is charred? Were they able to see she had given birth?
After reading all this somehow I have the feeling we are not looking in the right direction, overlook something or to narrow.
I'm not sure what is at the top of the hill. Maybe a house/houses? I know there are residential areas in Tujunga. I think it seems like a very risky spot to leave a body as well. Even if someone didn't drive down the hill, it's still risky because someone could be traveling on La Tuna Canyon Road and see the killer leaving the body there. And of course as you read in the coroner's report, it was passerbys that stopped to attempt to put out what they thought was a brush fire. They were kicking dirt on the fire before realizing it was a body. It was on a Sunday night at 11:25 PM when the body was discovered. I wonder how long it had been on fire. She had been deceased for some hours according to the coroner's report. Maybe the killer left her there thinking that there wouldn't be many people traveling the road at that time? Maybe he wasn't an experienced killer and he panicked and just wanted to get rid of the body as quickly as possible.
I'm not very good with directions (north, south, east, west). I think that I remember seeing that it appeared to be the direction of San Fernando.
You are right. It is probably not important because Google Maps can be "off" sometimes as far as details like this.
I wonder if they are drawing the "Hispanic" conclusion from the necklace she's wearing? Maybe she had Hispanic features but was light skinned? Yes, the investigator said she appeared to have full lips but they can swell after death due to trauma.
This is only a partial coroner's report. The coroner's investigator said they could not release the entire report because it is a homicide investigation. I wonder what the slight trauma in the mouth was from? Possibly a sexual assault in that part of her body?
Yes, according to the investigators at the coroner's office, those spots are burn artifacts, not moles. Maybe that part of the report is what made the forensic artist think that the spots on the face were moles.
From that and what I read on Doe Network, it seems that is the case. I'm glad she was deceased before her body was set on fire.
I'm not sure. I guess it would be an estimate since the eye color was listed as "indeterminate" in the coroner's report.
I haven't seen anything about a toxicology report for this Doe. I have wondered if she could have had something in her system. Not because there was anything about the case that would lead us to believe that, but just my own personal curiosity. I haven't seen anything about if she had given birth. That would be interesting to know, especially since we're now able to get DNA from her bones. Of course, all we could do is hope that her child submitted DNA somehow, whether through a LE agency if she'd been reported missing, or through GED Match or other similar services. We'd have to hope that they'd "opted in" to allow access to their DNA if they used GED Match or other similar services.
Yes, it's disappointing that we've been looking for so long and the entire time the description of her was almost completely wrong. I'm in the process of coming up with a new description of this Jane Doe that I want to send to the coroner's office to ask if the information is correct. After it's approved, I want to ask the coroner's office what process I'd need to go through to get her description updated with NCMEC and Doe Network.
Another thing that I noticed was that the math book and L.A. Gear sneakers that were supposedly found with the remains are not mentioned in the coroner's report. Doe Network lists the math book as being found with the remains and NCMEC says that a math book and L.A. Gear sneakers were found with the remains. The coroner's report said that she was not wearing shoes. Makes me think that if there were shoes they were just "near the body." However, I feel like the sneakers and math book would have been added in NamUs if this were true.
One other thing I've been meaning to post here...on July 27, 2020, LAPD's Robbery-Homicide Division was added to "Contacts" in NamUs for this Jane Doe. The agency case number for her LAPD case is 94-16-28149. It was added right after I sent a news article (in reference to the question about the [now we know to be non-existent] moles on Jane Doe's forehead) to the ID Unit at LACMEC from 2010 where an LAPD Police Detective is talking about the case.
@Bit of hope @Sleuth91 you two absolutely rock! I have a very strong feeling that you two will give this young woman her name back! Awesome job!
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