Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #15

[otto]

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=4e9e3a1e-d690-41d1-a724-0d3416b4b65e

Did he have a different lawyer for each charge?

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

http://www.mcscs.jus.gov.on.ca/engl...de/InvestigativeTechniques/PI_techniques.html

I don't think that a trial is a free for all where the defence can waste everyone's time by presenting all sorts of crazy theories. The defence can interpret the evidence differently than the prosecution, but it's not an option to ignore the evidence and create a brand new set of facts. Furthermore, evidence has to follow a chain of custody, so anything a private investigator produces is put in question.

I posted this link earlier which addresses just that...

 

[otto]

http://www.mcscs.jus.gov.on.ca/engl...de/InvestigativeTechniques/PI_techniques.html

I posted this link earlier which addresses just that...

That's the Ontario info.
This is Alberta info: https://www.solgps.alberta.ca/progr...T Participant Manual Complete Sept 1 2012.pdf

In this case, I don't believe that a private investigator can do anything to take the focus off the accused.

 

[deugirtni]

No. But the evidence in that case, and just for SIX of his victims, nevermind the other 40 some-odd, was so mountainous.. I think the government never did release the total spent in the end, but.. wow. And then the lawyers appealed the verdict. Twice I believe. At our expense also. The other murders were never tried. At first I wondered why, but now I see why, and I'm sure glad he wasn't tried for the others.. they said since he had been convicted and received the maximum time allowable in Canada (25 years), there was no use really in convicting him of the rest. I am astounded that our government would spend that much, and allow this. Someone should have just knocked him off. No offence to anyone, of course. MOO.

Did he have a different lawyer for each charge?

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

That's the Ontario info.
This is Alberta info: https://www.solgps.alberta.ca/progr...T Participant Manual Complete Sept 1 2012.pdf

In this case, I don't believe that a private investigator can do anything to take the focus off the accused.

The theory and training from province to province is not going to differ much, if at all.

Evidence from private investigators is admissible if handled and gathered properly, no different than LE, or any other citizen.

Depending on the evidence, certain defence strategies would almost require the use of a P.I.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

OH my gosh! This made my day... I honestly thought you were female...lol!!!

OutOfTheDarkness, I thought you were male all along, but then the other day you said something that made me think you were female for some reason (can't remember what and not that gender matters I don't usually think about it in here), but now you've assured us all you're male and not into Sam Elliot whatsoever lol! arty:

 

[otto]

No. But the evidence in that case, and just for SIX of his victims, nevermind the other 40 some-odd, was so mountainous.. I think the government never did release the total spent in the end, but.. wow. And then the lawyers appealed the verdict. Twice I believe. At our expense also. The other murders were never tried. At first I wondered why, but now I see why, and I'm sure glad he wasn't tried for the others.. they said since he had been convicted and received the maximum time allowable in Canada (25 years), there was no use really in convicting him of the rest. I am astounded that our government would spend that much, and allow this. Someone should have just knocked him off. No offence to anyone, of course. MOO.

Unfortunately, that case was a bit of a mess because police did not properly interpret the evidence.

 

[winnnancy]

I don't think that a trial is a free for all where the defence can waste everyone's time by presenting all sorts of crazy theories. The defence can interpret the evidence differently than the prosecution, but it's not an option to ignore the evidence and create a brand new set of facts. Furthermore, evidence has to follow a chain of custody, so anything a private investigator produces is put in question.

I agree that it is put in question BUT that is the whole point!!!! IF the evidence is weak, and question creates doubt, the defense has accomplished it's goal. I'm not talking about IGNORING evidence, I'm talking about creating doubt in the setting of weak evidence.

 

[otto]

The theory and training from province to province is not going to differ much, if at all.

Evidence from private investigators is admissible if handled and gathered properly, no different than LE, or any other citizen.

Depending on the evidence, certain defence strategies would almost require the use of a P.I.

I guess we'll have to wait and see whether the accused has funds, whether he is prepared to pay for a private investigator (a guilty, unemployed man probably wouldn't want to waste money), whether a private investigator could find another suspect, and whether there would be sufficient evidence from the private investigator to negate the evidence that police have collected. Personally, I don't see a private investigator being able to undo the work of an entire police force.

 

[stan laurel]

I read in one of the posts that the green truck was identified immediately by a neighbour because it was missing its mirror? The police issued 2 photos of the green truck, and in those photos, the pic is far away and when I enlarge to see it more closely, it has bad resolution.. but to me it looks like there IS a mirror.. can anyone clarify this?

It looks like the issued shorty pie shaped mirror with chrome,, never could understand the missing mirror thing. maybe it's the passenger side that's missing it? I wonder if you can see the mirrors on google maps?

 

[Krystine]

OutOfTheDarkness, I thought you were male all along, but then the other day you said something that made me think you were female for some reason (can't remember what and not that gender matters I don't usually think about it in here), but now you've assured us all you're male and not into Sam Elliot whatsoever lol! arty:

I've been getting a guy vibe from OOTD all along.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

It is my understanding that the mental health assessment that one is given in jail/prison, is to determine the levels for supervision in suicide watch. It is not used for defence purposes when determining mental fitness to stand trial. That is done through asking the court - A court ordered, SPECIFIC assessment.

Oh interesting I see what you're saying. I also wonder if defence lawyers have certain favorite psychiatrists in their rolodex to use for certain trials, and to provide evaluations and testimony.

And I also wonder if a suspect can get evaluated by two different psychiatrists - one from the defense and one from the prosecution?

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

I've been getting a guy vibe from OOTD all along.

Oh boy... wrong forum for THAT debate. Please don't make me defend male stereotypes.

Sam can be dreamy in a manly way... Okay... There, I said it.

 

[stan laurel]

Regarding the allegation that oil and gas employees are seedy, transient people that are busy making deals and connections, let's consider for a moment that both of Nathan's parents, and his grandfather, are/were oil and gas employees. I am actually offended that anyone would generalize about the oil industry in that way. In reality, oil/gas industry employees are professional, hard working engineers, engineering technologists, accountants, lawyers, and other professionals that conduct themselves according to the expectations of their profession. They should not under any circumstances be portrayed as seedy, transient people that have drug connections.

there's dirt in the oil too otto,, too many shystery stories to detail now and I'm not talking juniors either. the industry gets a lot of leeway in getting away with things that would make even the least informed barf. I would say from 92 forward the industry went morally backward. as for drugs and the o&g industry, the h.a are firmly rooted in fort mac and cocaine is still the drug of choice up that way. where there's money there is organized crime.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

It doesn't seem that unusual to me. What's the point in reporting that tomorrow there might be something to report? The media reports the news ... after it happens. Furthermore, it's not like it's something that should be advertised ... it's a trial proceeding for murder, not entertainment.

I have a sneaking suspicion there will be a few reporters there updating their Twitter profiles in real time, they all want to be the first to break anything new that may get divulged.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

That's interesting. I didn't know that. Will the defence lawyer investigate and look for plausible alternate theories?

I would imagine KR and his team would do that, it's due diligence. What else do you think Defense lawyers do? They formulate scenarios, they find witnesses to discredit the evidence and to provide alibis for their clients....

 

[winnnancy]

I guess we'll have to wait and see whether the accused has funds, whether he is prepared to pay for a private investigator (a guilty, unemployed man probably wouldn't want to waste money), whether a private investigator could find another suspect, and whether there would be sufficient evidence from the private investigator to negate the evidence that police have collected. Personally, I don't see a private investigator being able to undo the work of an entire police force.

Depends on what evidence that police force has been able to drum up.
The private investigator doesn't have to negate it all... Simply provide sufficient conflicting evidence to make jurors question the validity and conclusiveness of evidence at hand!

 

[Lalalacasbah]

jmho -- I like to be informed of progress.....even in tiny increments it is encouraging to me

Me too, and I wish in a way that numbers of L and O family members would show up to look DG in the eye or to be seen by him in hopes that seeing them might trigger some sort of guilt (if he did do it) or remorse and maybe, just maybe he'd see some suffering and tell where the trio are.

Although, it might too hard for the family to attend, I wish they would especially the women. If DG has any love for his mom or sisters, women might trigger some sentiment in him. JMO.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

there's dirt in the oil too otto,, too many shystery stories to detail now and I'm not talking juniors either. the industry gets a lot of leeway in getting away with things that would make even the least informed barf. I would say from 92 forward the industry went morally backward. as for drugs and the o&g industry, the h.a are firmly rooted in fort mac and cocaine is still the drug of choice up that way. where there's money there is organized crime.

Thank you for stepping in and saying that in your very eloquent, matter-of-fact way Stan! My sentiments exactly! :takeabow:
(I could see you as having that Sam Elliott, lazy drawl).

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

I have a sneaking suspicion there will be a few reporters there updating their Twitter profiles in real time, they all want to be the first to break anything new that may get divulged.

Perhaps the lack of reporting is just a sign of the changing times, with the instant news, and the decline of MSM as the primary source of information. It's not happening now, so let me know when it does.

It probably says more about our birthdates than anything...