Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #16

[Lalalacasbah]

I attribute his "I'll show you" attitude to his family unit,, the money is more important than being found out (while under alias).

On a different note; we have been told who are going to court e.g., RO, JO,,, but has CL or AL - the brothers of AL - been?

I got the impression his family was quite humble, and not very 'showy' or materialistic, no? I thought DG might be a person who seethes and gets very angry if people screw him over, hence taking people to court. JMO. Or maybe he's a greedy cheapskate like you say!

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Thanks for finding that. Although I remember a different context, after that comment by KR, I can't see him confirming this detail to anyone. He does have admirable principles.

His comment could mean he was retained by either LA or an independent third party such as his parents.

Yeah, I was looking for the key word 'assigned' for sure, but no luck yet. I'll keep looking, as I'm sure it's out there. You probably read and remember it right, just so much fluff to sift through on Google!

 

[deugirtni]

That is what I wanted to say, but.. I don't want to keep repeating myself ;/
What if it wasn't DG at all? What if it was someone without a vehicle, someone who saw the estate sale notices, thought there would be some nice cash on hand, cased out the neighbourhood, found some homeowners away with a vehicle parked in the driveway, found the neighbouring house was vacant - too good to be true!.... could have even been an out-of-towner in town for stampede festivities. The possibilities are endless, and I too hope that LE are dotting their i's and crossing their t's.

Perhaps things didn't happen the way everyone thinks. I keep thinking of David Milgaard and Guy Paul Morin...I sure hope the i's are dotted and t's are crossed here.

 

[news.talk]

I think we don't know for sure, and likely no way that could be confirmed since it would be confidential. Someone however, mentioned that the amount of bail that was posted for DG, would have taken into consideration the accused's ability to pay, although I'm not sure if that is necessarily true that that would be a consideration in setting bail? I have no way of knowing how much DG's income was, from his business(es), but I am *assuming* that he might be living on his own somewhere, rather than with his parents, if he were producing enough income to pay for a lawyer to cover a murder case. I can't imagine what those costs might add up to. In fact, sometimes I wonder if *anyone* can afford to pay for that unless they happen to be wealthy. I know through my job that with just a simple civil case that doesn't even hit the courts, the costs are just outrageous, and I shudder to think what they could add up to if a lawyer actually has to attend court multiple times. Who has a few hundred thousand dollars in savings to be used for a legal defence?

The budget set out for Legal Aid is $20,000 and can be extended to $30,000 for more complex cases.

I did find this article that seems in line with my guess:

http://thelawdictionary.org/article/how-much-does-a-criminal-defense-lawyer-cost-for-murder-charges/

It states that the range is between $20,000 and $100,000 depending on the case and Lawyer.

 

[LoisLane]

Do you think these reference the maps ones you were talking about?

When I map Signal Hill that area shows about 20 vehicle thefts since about May. Five reports involve 2 vehicles stolen at the same time (May and July). The differences are location and all the Signal Hill thefts occur at night (9:00-11:30pm) whereas Parkhill (June 29) happened in the morning (8:20am).

It just goes to show that this type of crime is not uncommon (2 vehicles, same location, same time). Signal Hill is a hotspot (20 thefts), Parkhill had 8 thefts in the past 6 months.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

AL's brothers names are Cliff (not nephew) and Allen (not AL's son) right?

 

[news.talk]

I got the impression his family was quite humble, and not very 'showy' or materialistic, no? I thought DG might be a person who seethes and gets very angry if people screw him over, hence taking people to court. JMO. Or maybe he's a greedy cheapskate like you say!

He drives an old truck, lives with his parents and even the farm doesn't seem to have anything showy or seemingly expensive.

If his parents are helping him, I would imagine they would have no trouble securing a loan based on their property assets, but there is a good chance the have very little bills and savings up the wazoo.

DG going it alone financially is certainly difficult to pinpoint. I don't think he had a job outside the farm and who knows if his 'investments' are fruitful. I suspect he may qualify for LA at least on paper.

 

[stan laurel]

AL's brothers names are Cliff (not nephew) and Allen (not AL's son) right?

right.

 

[deugirtni]

We haven't heard a thing about DG holding a job ever since he did his time. We haven't seen a thing online regarding his business(es) other than a couple of things to say they existed. Middle-aged man living with his parents, when I'm thinking most middle-aged men would probably rather be living in their own homes on their own properties (JMOO).

Lawyers are reallllllly expensive nowadays! His parents would have no obligation to put up anything on his behalf, considering he is an adult and not a dependent. I can't help thinking it goes without saying that the man would be accessing the public purse to fund his legal defence. MOO.

Also, you mention the past drug trade, however his sentence was so minimal that I would love to know the quantities that were found in regard to his drug arrest. To me, they had to have been minimal amounts or his sentence should have been a lot longer, IMHO, especially considering that the 40 months (total) handed out were for all charges and not just the drug charges. He stated (and we don't know that it is untrue) he was making his own meth to treat his ADD; if the quantities on hand supported that explanation, then perhaps that is why his sentence was so short, and he really doesn't have any drug world acquaintances or stashes of money. Perhaps he is not as big and as bad as many may seem to perceive him as being.

Perhaps (and I believe) KR is very busy with defending legal aid cases.

Well how much does he charge? $ 1 Million an hour? Lol (kidding)
Obviously there are people who can afford his fees, it was stated that he was quite busy so someone's hiring him.
Could be the acreage was put up, could be there's family money, could be DG has his own money from working doing whatever it was he was doing.
We are assuming the man doesn't have money...why?
He's been in the drug trade in the past, and could very well still be...probably in bigger proportions now...I'll bet he has tons of money.

 

[LoisLane]

The budget set out for Legal Aid is $20,000 and can be extended to $30,000 for more complex cases.

I did find this article that seems in line with my guess:

http://thelawdictionary.org/article/how-much-does-a-criminal-defense-lawyer-cost-for-murder-charges/

It states that the range is between $20,000 and $100,000 depending on the case and Lawyer.

$30K could be easily spent by now. For example:
hourly rate of $400 X 75 hours = $30K
hourly rate of $400 X 250 hours = $100K

ETA: Unless... It's a flat fee?

I think $400/hr. is being conservative

 

[deugirtni]

I was thinking.. 'principle' is very impotant to him... kind of trying to make sense of why the 7 year old patent dispute would/could have caused him such strife (assuming that IF he is guilty, that *could* be the motive). It kind of doesn't make sense though, considering his principles for himself were not top notch, considering his past convictions. Perhaps that old 'muddled thinking' thing again? ;/

we know that he's very persistent and ballsy regarding money owed to him,,, weren't there two small claims cases and then the ei claim. money is very important to him, so important that he risked the three cases above while under an alias and a fugitive.

 

[deugirtni]

Not that this matters as far as your particular post, but... for many it was a long weekend, but (perhaps it is treated differently out west, I'm not sure?) for many it was a silly weekend, where employees get a regular weekend off, go back to work for the one day (Monday) and then get the Tuesday off, unless they have an employer who traded the Tuesday holiday for the Monday, or gave employees both days off.

The vehicles were an easy walking distance from where DG could have parked his truck and to the Liknes home. They may have been parked in a garage, hence the residential break-in. But if 2 trucks were stolen at the same time that would require 2 people which would mean if it was DG he did not act alone or even worked with 2 other people.

This was a Sunday of a long weekend that these above crimes took place. The owners could have been away and same with neighbours. It may have been a quiet Sunday morning.

 

[deugirtni]

Hmm, that is an interesting thought.. wonder if those 2 vehicles have been recovered yet.. and if not.. they could in fact be holding some bodies??

we actually don't know if he returned to the airdrie property that night,, maybe he went somewhere else (put the bodies in a trunk of a car then went home with other stuff to dispose of)?

 

[LoisLane]

Not that this matters as far as your particular post, but... for many it was a long weekend, but (perhaps it is treated differently out west, I'm not sure?) for many it was a silly weekend, where employees get a regular weekend off, go back to work for the one day (Monday) and then get the Tuesday off, unless they have an employer who traded the Tuesday holiday for the Monday, or gave employees both days off.

Yes, that is true! I forgot about that silly Tuesday. In that neighbourhood (economic) and for many Calgary employees I would think they take Monday and Tuesday or take Monday, work Tuesday.

 

[LoisLane]

Hmm, that is an interesting thought.. wonder if those 2 vehicles have been recovered yet.. and if not.. they could in fact be holding some bodies??

I am sure CP and LE have it covered as part of the investigation. I am not sure we as sleuthers had realized or discussed the vehicle theft and residential break-in that had occurred the morning of June 29th (June 30th was when JO called police)

 

[deugirtni]

Now that you mention that, I recall raeding about a 'cap' that was at some point set, but it was $50,000, but then there was discussion surrounding that 'capping', in relation to every accused's right in our country to receive a 'fair trial'. I'm not sure where it all ended, or how old that information was. If we are talking about a murder case, that would undoubtedly cost more to defend than a simple B&E or something. I find those figures awfully low that you have posted, but I guess if allllll cases are averaged, perhaps that is why. I suppose also that lawyers' hourly fees might have a large range in prices, depending on the law firm.. but still, I can't see it being less than $100,000, MOO. Every communicaiton, every visit, every letter written, every day in court, all of these court dates, meetings, research, travel, an 8-9 day anticipated preliminary hearing, and that is even before the trial, and not to mention all of the extras, speaking with witnesses, whatever 'costs' there are involved, like hiring a PI? etc etc etc.. Now you have me curious and I will go looking for info that is current and relevant to a murder defence. At work we hire lawyers whenever we need to, and it takes very little for the fees to rack up to $40,000 and that is without attending court once and just for more civil types of cases. Perhaps we happen to be using higher priced lawyers, but I doubt it.

Seeking justice in Canada is expensive. Soon, it may not be worth taking a case to court unless more than $100,000 is at stake, says Ron Slaght, a Toronto civil litigation lawyer.

A three-day civil trial is likely to cost at least $60,738 – more than the median family income in Canada of $58,100. The estimate is conservative because trials often take longer than three days.

....

"I would say the average custody case now goes on for five days. Many go on for eight," says Susan McGrath, a former president of the Canadian Bar Association and a family law lawyer in Iroquois Falls, Ont.

In a family law case, the bill could easily be $150,000, McGrath says.

Experienced civil and family law lawyers charge anywhere from about $250 an hour to as much as $800 an hour in Toronto.

....

A year-long murder trial could run to hundreds of thousands of dollars.

http://www.thestar.com/news/2007/03/03/a_3day_trial_likely_to_cost_you_60000.html

The budget set out for Legal Aid is $20,000 and can be extended to $30,000 for more complex cases.

I did find this article that seems in line with my guess:

http://thelawdictionary.org/article/how-much-does-a-criminal-defense-lawyer-cost-for-murder-charges/

It states that the range is between $20,000 and $100,000 depending on the case and Lawyer.

 

[Cherchri]

That is what I wanted to say, but.. I don't want to keep repeating myself ;/
What if it wasn't DG at all? What if it was someone without a vehicle, someone who saw the estate sale notices, thought there would be some nice cash on hand, cased out the neighbourhood, found some homeowners away with a vehicle parked in the driveway, found the neighbouring house was vacant - too good to be true!.... could have even been an out-of-towner in town for stampede festivities. The possibilities are endless, and I too hope that LE are dotting their i's and crossing their t's.

I went down that path of reckoning quite early and there are several factors that influenced my thinking when coming to the conclusion that DG was a or the perpetrator. One such reason was the massive deployment of LE specifically to the Airdrie acreage. This has to have been one of Calgary's biggest deployments ever? The ensuing duration of the search and the "voluminous evidence" collected put paid to that thinking for me.

 

[Cherchri]

I am sure CP and LE have it covered as part of the investigation. I am not sure we as sleuthers had realized or discussed the vehicle theft and residential break-in that had occurred the morning of June 29th (June 30th was when JO called police)

I am still puzzling over the black SUV at the slough. Was that, perhaps, a stolen vehicle? Could it have been tied to the crime?

 

[deugirtni]

Two vehicle thefts in a given area doesn't necessarily mean both done by same person? Nor that the residential break-in was also connected with one or both of the vehicle thefts? I wonder if the crime/theft incidences increased due to the Stampede going on?

The vehicles were an easy walking distance from where DG could have parked his truck and to the Liknes home. They may have been parked in a garage, hence the residential break-in. But if 2 trucks were stolen at the same time that would require 2 people which would mean if it was DG he did not act alone or even worked with 2 other people.

This was a Sunday of a long weekend that these above crimes took place. The owners could have been away and same with neighbours. It may have been a quiet Sunday morning.

 

[deugirtni]

Or it could have been an all together different person who did the crime, someone who was larger.

I still hold out there might've been help in this……especially since Cherchri said how small he is…..