Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #16

[Cherchri]

So true, people conveniently turn a blind eye. Back in my wild days in my 20s living in Vancouver my boyfriend was a musician who played in nicer bars and not so nice bars and I followed along. One night was at one of the known hotels in the heart of the lower east side, and I sat there alone while he played (a little scared but I felt pretty street smart and a few beers helped lol!)

I shared a table with a heroin addicted prostitute (and mother who didn't have custody) and her father figure like friend. They were just like anyone I've encountered at bars except of course, they were drug addicts on a different social level and in a way, living in a different world than most of us. But as an outsider looking in (maybe with rose colored glasses) and visitor in their world that night, I noticed the people there had a bond, a sense of community and treated each other with respect. They seem to really look after each other.

I saw one guy give his last cigarette to a buddy and I was a smoker then and wouldn't have even given my last one to my friend (might've shared though lol) and I knew I'd be buying more at another time but most of those people didn't know where their next anything would come from. It really changed my perception of street people, and I always wonder what ever happened to that girl, she was just as much human as the rest of us. Damn that Pickton, so sad. Sorry for my rant too!

I believe a not so good travel agent booked me into that very hotel for my very first visit to Vancouver! I got to know all the people on the street just to say hello. I never felt threatened or afraid. The hotel itself wasn't bad at all. That was back in '86. My impressions Vancouver was good enough that I ended up living in North Van for years.

 

[LoisLane]

How terrible for the Pickton victim's families. What a horrendous nightmare. He might be in prison the rest of his natural born life but it still doesn't seem like justice enough IMO. We treat our criminals better than our poor and homeless, something's wrong with that. JMO.

I agree, such a tragedy for the victims and their families. With that said, I think it is necessary that all this money and effort was spent for the investigation and trial, I don't think it is done in vain or a measure of ensuring WP is innocent until proven guilty. I think it is so extensive in order to demonstrate the rights of the families and victims who deserved justice and a thourogh investigation. I think that if it was done quickly and steps were skipped it could have caused more problems.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Yeah, I don't think he's calm (sorry Tinker!), I think he's detached, removed and probably doesn't feel much emotion IMO. And good analogy Stan! From reading AL and KL's obit it sounds like AL was larger than life in a way, and I believe AL will be final winner in this when justice prevails, and DG still the loser.

I still think he was calm...what else can you be if you're detached? I was pointing out his lack of apparent anxiety, worry and fear...seems he was opposite from what we've heard.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

I'll say, I'm not sure why it thought it was your grand bunnie Maybe there's more than one intuitive reader on here ! Sorry Tink'.
What a sad ending for a bunny... to pass away on Easter Sunday! More proof that our creator has a decent sense of humor.
I heard about the snow in Alberta, my grandsons were playing football in it!
Still do miss Alberta, regardless...

Oh no!! Well that's not funny!! [emoji33] No bunny should pass on Easter!! It was his time to shine...poor Lil thing![emoji20]
Lol...yes...I would imagine there are quite a few 'intuitives' here.

 

[Slebby]

I still think he was calm...what else can you be if you're detached? I was pointing out his lack of apparent anxiety, worry and fear...seems he was opposite from what we've heard.

The difference, IMO is that you can feel calm. But when you are detached, it's an absence of feeling, a detachment from feeling.
My 2 cents.

 

[deugirtni]

Ok, sorry about my confusion, I had *assumed* that this had happened during the accused's prelim hearing, but it was not, it was after 4 months of incarceration, when some kind of evidence came back in the lab which did not match the accused. I got the distinct impression that LE were upset with that 'ruling'/'decision', whatever you want to call it. You are right in that 'the system simply worked'.

The day the charges were dropped, Staff Sergeant Steve Hrab, the case manager, did not talk to the media. A Hamilton Police spokesperson said he was on vacation.

Another officer said results returned from the Centre of Forensic Sciences did not match David Scott, and so the charges were dropped. He would not say what type of forensic testing had been done.

MORE: ANXIETY RETURNS TO THE COMMUNITY

It's not unusual for police to arrest a suspect and lay charges while still waiting for evidence to be developed — forensic or otherwise.

But it is uncommon for the suspect to be freed when that evidence comes back.

It was a big blow to Hamilton Police and the homicide unit.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2123220-audrey-s-case-gets-colder/

<rsbm>

I was on AG's thread from the very beginning and throughout until it was recently closed down.

For the record, the above statements are simply untrue. There was no trial resulting in a judge making any ruling ... as soon as forensic evidence was found NOT to match DLS, the charges were withdrawn by the Crown and he was immediately released. There was no trial or any ruling by any judge. The system simply worked

Also, don't know where you are getting that LE was upset with a judge's ruling because there was no ruling.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I believe a not so good travel agent booked me into that very hotel for my very first visit to Vancouver! I got to know all the people on the street just to say hello. I never felt threatened or afraid. The hotel itself wasn't bad at all. That was back in '86. My impressions Vancouver was good enough that I ended up living in North Van for years.

I, like you, did not feel threatened either, and it might've been the same hotel lol! IIRC we were at The Balmoral or Patricia, but I'm pretty sure it was the Balmoral. And this might sound weird, but I was kinda scared to use the washroom (thought I might find needles or something) but the washroom in that pub was cleaner than the 'nicer' bars I'd been uptown, which surprised me. But I don't want to sound like I'm romanticizing these people's environments or lives either, I know it's tough for them and can't imagine what it would be like on a day to day basis.

We did a lot of pub/bar hopping in those days, fancy bars, dive bars, sketchy bars, you name it. Met lots of great people and lots of slimy ones too

I also worked in North Van for a year or two, great place, if I ever lived in that city again it'd be North Van

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I agree, such a tragedy for the victims and their families. With that said, I think it is necessary that all this money and effort was spent for the investigation and trial, I don't think it is done in vain or a measure of ensuring WP is innocent until proven guilty. I think it is so extensive in order to demonstrate the rights of the families and victims who deserved justice and a thourogh investigation. I think that if it was done quickly and steps were skipped it could have caused more problems.

For sure, well said. Victims have to be dignified and recognized.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

The difference, IMO is that you can feel calm. But when you are detached, it's an absence of feeling, a detachment from feeling.
My 2 cents.

I would think if the perp was detached, there would be no reason to commit the crimes. Given the alleged blood found at the scene, (read violence), and the fact one or more of the victims were targeted to die, then you have a recipe for quite the opposite of detached... this seems more like deeply emotionally involved.

 

[news.talk]

I would think if the perp was detached, there would be no reason to commit the crimes. Given the alleged blood found at the scene, (read violence), and the fact one or more of the victims were targeted to die, then you have a recipe for quite the opposite of detached... this seems more like deeply emotionally involved.

I agree. If I may add - I don't see his demeanor as 'detached' but rather defiant and angry. *If* he held this grudge for several years only to violently commit murder for retribution, I suspect that he is more of a 'seething pressure cooker' of emotions and his demeanour is more of a VERY internally angry person.

 

[winnnancy]

Could it be that he arrived at his decision intellectually and is so certain of that process that he actually is willing to accept whatever consequences arise?

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

[QUOTEwinnnancy;10981539]Could it be that he arrived at his decision intellectually and is so certain of that process that he actually is willing to accept whatever consequences arise?[/QUOTE]

Then we probably would have heard a confession from someone. The purpose of taking the bodies along was almost certainly to get away with the crime... either by never being discovered as the perp, or if caught, to then get off on some sort of legal technicality. The possibility of getting caught was very likely thought through fully.

If it was DG and I put myself in the perp's head, I'm feeling justified. Mission accomplished, and those who I felt had it coming, got what was coming. If it wasn't for the child, I probably would have gotten away with it, or at least had more time to do things properly, and not leave so much evidence behind. I'm still angry, and still blaming the target for causing issues in my life.

If it wasn't DG, then again... mission accomplished. I'm feeling justified and I am getting away with it in a manner I couldn't have planned if I tried. Not only am I covered from a legal technicality standpoint, LE is completely focussed on the wrong person, and although I'm still going to be very careful to watch my step, I'm starting to relax about ever getting caught.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I would think if the perp was detached, there would be no reason to commit the crimes. Given the alleged blood found at the scene, (read violence), and the fact one or more of the victims were targeted to die, then you have a recipe for quite the opposite of detached... this seems more like deeply emotionally involved.

Do you think it's emotion or anger or ego/inferiority complex? I thought if he did do it he's probably a psychopathic personality, and this has been my opinion thus far, but your point is quite valid. You would almost think this is a crime of passion. Very hard to tell.

 

[news.talk]

Then we probably would have heard a confession from someone. The purpose of taking the bodies along was almost certainly to get away with the crime... either by never being discovered as the perp, or if caught, to then get off on some sort of legal technicality. The possibility of getting caught was very likely thought through fully.

If I put myself in the perp's head, I'm feeling justified. Mission accomplished, and those who I felt had it coming, got what was coming. If it wasn't for the child, I probably would have gotten away with it, or at least had more time to do things properly, and not leave so much evidence behind. I'm still angry, and still blaming the target for causing issues in my life.

I agree and think somehow he STILL blames the victims for their actions and his alleged subsequent re-action.

I FULLY believe that NO was the catalyst to his capture. I believe that he planned the murders and NO threw the wrench in the plan that led to his downfall. Had the amber alert and subsequent media coverage not been a factor, he may have gotten away with this crime.

 

[Slebby]

I would think if the perp was detached, there would be no reason to commit the crimes. Given the alleged blood found at the scene, (read violence), and the fact one or more of the victims were targeted to die, then you have a recipe for quite the opposite of detached... this seems more like deeply emotionally involved.

I think we'd all agree he likely wasn't calm or detached at the time the murders were committed. I think the calm versus detached comments are based more on reading his demeanour in photos and reports about his demeanour in his court appearances.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Krystine]

I would think if the perp was detached, there would be no reason to commit the crimes. Given the alleged blood found at the scene, (read violence), and the fact one or more of the victims were targeted to die, then you have a recipe for quite the opposite of detached... this seems more like deeply emotionally involved.

I think Tinkerbel was referring to the present day, post crime. If DG is on suicide watch, it is quite likely that he is depressed, and detachment is a symptom of that.
It might be a stretch to presume we know anything about his state of mental health, all we have seen of him so far is the 'perp walk'. He looked furious to me, but controlled and dignified. Who knows, he could be a whimpering bundle of unmyelenated nerve fibres by now.

 

[LoisLane]

Calgary Herald has posted this article today. The reporter points out a couple dates. Will have to check and see if they should be reversed and if she made an error.

Alvin and Kathy Liknes and five-year-old Nathan O&#8217;Brien have not been seen since June 30.

The Eden Brook Memorial Gardens and Funeral website lists the couple&#8217;s date of death as June 29.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/c...nt+missing+with+five+year/10219140/story.html

 

[Krystine]

I agree. If I may add - I don't see his demeanor as 'detached' but rather defiant and angry. *If* he held this grudge for several years only to violently commit murder for retribution, I suspect that he is more of a 'seething pressure cooker' of emotions and his demeanour is more of a VERY internally angry person.

It's interesting to speculate about his mental well being, and whether the accused (if guilty) felt some kind of a permanent release upon committing the murders, or whether he continues to seethe, as suggested by news.talk.
I can only speak for myself, (a non-murderer), but in the most stressful time of my life, post divorce, career change, major move...I think for a while I hated everybody. I would silently curse people who dared to turned left, or people who let their children sit in shopping carts,... etc.
When I started to 'fix my life', it all subsided.
It's possible that some murderers can change their mental state by killing, and then coast along as relaxed/happy people, having fixed their problem.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

I wonder if the 2 vehicles stolen nearby the Liknes' on June 30th have ever been recovered? And if so, were they checked for any sign of the victims DNA?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

[QUOTEwinnnancy;10981539]Could it be that he arrived at his decision intellectually and is so certain of that process that he actually is willing to accept whatever consequences arise?

THIS IS THIS QUOTE FROM OutOfTheDarkness, I'm having problems replying with quote
Then we probably would have heard a confession from someone. The purpose of taking the bodies along was almost certainly to get away with the crime... either by never being discovered as the perp, or if caught, to then get off on some sort of legal technicality. The possibility of getting caught was very likely thought through fully.

If it was DG and I put myself in the perp's head, I'm feeling justified. Mission accomplished, and those who I felt had it coming, got what was coming. If it wasn't for the child, I probably would have gotten away with it, or at least had more time to do things properly, and not leave so much evidence behind. I'm still angry, and still blaming the target for causing issues in my life.

If it wasn't DG, then again... mission accomplished. I'm feeling justified and I am getting away with it in a manner I couldn't have planned if I tried. Not only am I covered from a legal technicality standpoint, LE is completely focussed on the wrong person, and although I'm still going to be very careful to watch my step, I'm starting to relax about ever getting caught.[/QUOTE]

I took what winnnancy said as also what you said - he probably feels justified. And with winnnancy saying he's willing to accept the consequences could mean he's thinking 'Yeah, I got caught, yeah I did it, yeah it was worth it but no, I'm not going to admit to it and I'm not going to tell anyone where they are' kind of smug attitude.

I totally agree with you too about him still blaming the target and it's their fault he was caught&#8230;. I hear some killers do that - even after they kill their victims they don't feel bad for the victims but feel like they got what they deserved and feel a sense of relief.