CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #3

[Valleyboy]

I'm still sort of thinking that SL, SV and AG are related - this just came up on Twitter:

CTVBarrieNews CTV News Barrie

POLICE INVESTIGATING after 4-year-old boy found wandering alone along Highway 10 south of #Orangeville this morning.


I hope our Orangeville & Mono guy(s) aren't at it again!!:furious:

A four-year-old child has been reunited with his parents after he was found wandering on the shoulder of Hwy. 10, just south of Hwy. 9, in Orangeville.

Ontario Provincial Police Const. Jonathan Beckett said the boy was seen around 11 a.m. by a passerby who took him to the Orangeville police station.

Officers are speaking to the parents to find out what may have happened.

There is a daycare in the area, but it “sounds like he more than likely wandered away from home,” said Beckett.

 

[nicgumshoe]

I imagine it works pretty much like a front door openers. You just press the center button to lick the door.
Here is an image I found on the internet, just to give an idea of the 'center button' - - this one is not for garage though, just as a reference:

Thanks, Hazel!

On my garage, and I believe on some others I've seen, you have to enter the code to close it via the outside keypad. But I imagine there are some where you can just press a close button, like with your example. Somehow though, I think most of the older ones require a code.

 

[bodhi93]

You're right nic, ours doesn't have a code box outside. We open the garage doors with our remote controls which are left in the cars.

But I still have questions:
1. Did the killer of AG really enter through the garage? How are we to know?

Snipped for brevity...

I was wondering the same thing after watching the video with LV. There is at least one window that leads from the interior of the garage outside. I wonder if there is a door that leads from the garage outside as well.

Also, depending on where the door opener button is inside the garage, it might be able to be pushed without going in. The man-door (the one that goes from the garage to the house) at my in-laws is just inside the garage door. So you can just lean in and press the button, no tripping the sensor. On any of the garages that we've had, as long as the sensor is not tripped, then you can get out of a garage with the door closing.

Just a couple of thoughts.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Now I'm wondering something else - since AG was a woman living alone in a fairly remote place, did she have a security system for her house? She had a coded garage thing but did she also have an alarm system for the house?:twocents:

 

[nicgumshoe]

Now I'm wondering something else - since AG was a woman living alone in a fairly remote place, did she have a security system for her house? She had a coded garage thing but did she also have an alarm system for the house?:twocents:

She might have. Though I've heard people with pets tend to leave them off a lot. We once had cats and the security guy said forget installing, cuz the cats will set the alarm off all the time. Maybe things have changed. You'd think when animals are crated though, it should be ok to have on.

 

[nicgumshoe]

Re: getting into the house / garage. I think I saw a door from the garage to the outside.

It's hard to know how he got in. I guess based on what PK has stated about AG's garage-visitor behavior, the presence of dogs, and the feeling that she knew and trusted the killer, I still tend to think she let him in.

For me it always seems to come down to the dogs. They were probably her main alarm system, so how did the perp get around them, without setting them off?

One of those criminals in that perp article said something like, he'd go elsewhere if he knew there was a dog at a place. How about 2 dogs, and both shepherds? I can't see anyone devising an elaborate plan to bypass those dogs. I think it was easier for the perp than that.
If he did come up with a big plan in advance, he's smarter than has been suggested.

That said, maybe that mini saw from the ditch had something to do with how he got in.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Did you guys know that one cannot get house insurance in the province of Ontario now if one doesn't have an alarm system/security system? I did NOT know that until just recently when we bought our new house!!

And when our alarm system was installed I was thinking of Audrey! Yes!!
Because on the new systems, there's a thing which calls 911 and fire if need be!

OK, back to the dogs - the killer had to be familiar to those dogs in order for them to keep somewhat quiet. Perhaps the killer got to AG inside the house, but maybe the dogs started to sense something wasn't right. And that's when the killer moved the killing out to the garage.:twocents:

For some unknown reason, I feel it in my soul that AG was with the killer for a fairly long time (inside the house) before he killed her.

And I have no doubt that the killer is a male!

 

[Hazel]

That's been on my mind as well!! I've had nothing but 'Vettes all of my life and I'm wondering if AG was the same with her Camaros.

Also:
9. If AG wasn't a lifetime Camaro/GM owner - what kind of cars did she own previously?

10. Was AG always a GM person?

11. If so, did AG always use the same GM dealership?

12. And how/why did AG decide to purchase the 2010 Camaro? A friend said GM was having a sale? Was it custom-ordered? Did the dealership just happen to have many white ones? Did AG order one in white? :crazy:

this has a bit of info:

Neighbours thought she had a thing for sports cars, that she drove an old Camaro years before.

When she was first teaching and still married to Allan, she drove their Rover, a British model that Allan took up north with him when he left.

But she had never owned anything like her pride and joy: a new white Camaro with a black stripe, the latest model of the iconic muscle car that had first gone into production in the spring of 2009.
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/594717--audrey-s-story-continues

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

:tyou: Hazel!!

 

[nicgumshoe]

Did you guys know that one cannot get house insurance in the province of Ontario now if one doesn't have an alarm system/security system? I did NOT know that until just recently when we bought our new house!!

And when our alarm system was installed I was thinking of Audrey! Yes!!
Because on the new systems, there's a thing which calls 911 and fire if need be!

OK, back to the dogs - the killer had to be familiar to those dogs in order for them to keep somewhat quiet. Perhaps the killer got to AG inside the house, but maybe the dogs started to sense something wasn't right. And that's when the killer moved the killing out to the garage.:twocents:

For some unknown reason, I feel it in my soul that AG was with the killer for a fairly long time (inside the house) before he killed her.

And I have no doubt that the killer is a male!

Didn't know that about the insurance. Hopefully that's just for new homes.

Yep, the rest sounds good to me. I with you on that stuff.

If an unknown killer (unknown to AG) was planning a sneak attack, I think he would have done something more like waited until she let the dogs out at night, then gotten rid of them with poison, a gun, or taser...and then made his move. Why try to break in like a ninja and risk dealing with dogs in close quarters? Who would do that? Too complicated.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

To nic - yes, it's only for newly built homes!!

OK, for some unknown reason I went back to read Lee Mellor's blog:

http://mellortalksmurder.blogspot.com/?zx=aa9656b0f24ed661

This part jumped out at me:

Residence: Thankfully, here I can be much more specific. I can confidently state that the UNSUB will either live within a 10 KM radius of the Gleave residence (probably close to the centre), OR will have had a reason to visit the area on multiple occasions. The most plausible explanation is to see family. Visiting friends or work obligations are less likely possibilities. We must always keep in mind that Audrey Gleave was murderered over the holiday season.

 

[bodhi93]

Did you guys know that one cannot get house insurance in the province of Ontario now if one doesn't have an alarm system/security system? I did NOT know that until just recently when we bought our new house!!

I work in the P&C industry in Ontario and have never heard that before. We will give you a discount if you have an security/alarm system or direct fire (in certain locations), but as far as I know, we will not turn you down if you don't have one.

Just asked a co-worker and he hadn't heard of that either... but did say that all new houses now have to have the smoke detectors hard-wired into the electrical system... I think that's a building code regulation, not an insurance one.

 

[nicgumshoe]

I think Lee's probably right about that part.

If it isn't PK (I tend to exclude him for various reasons), I'm going with a neighbor.

 

[nicgumshoe]

Check this out!!!


....Not the first time I've seen members over there copying images made by me, Maps made by me; one even copied and pasted my whole post (the whole thing, my own words, with my bad English and everything) and posted it as theirs!!!!

:banghead: My signature doesn't even deter them from doing that

We should see which one's didn't make any posts around December 27th-29th, 2010. Maybe they're guilty of other things as well! :detective:

 

[LilyMacBloom]

Oh brother! I posted on their site about re-posting without quoting their source and my post was deleted!!:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

I did notice when I read their rules for the forum that they are SUPPOSED to provide a source for their information, but I guess hearsay works just as well for them, which is unfortunate. How do you spell plagerism?

Check this out!!!

• My post dated November 6th = http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7324419#post7324419
  
  
  
• Please ComeHome post dated today November 14th = http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?PHPSESSID=79ac47da517249f52028c88f9e5acb32&topic=5383.msg78379#msg78379

Not the first time I've seen members over there copying images made by me, Maps made by me; one even copied and pasted my whole post (the whole thing, my own words, with my bad English and everything) and posted it as theirs!!!!

:banghead: My signature doesn't even deter them from doing that

 

[roseofsharon]

I think he'd want to delay discovery for as long as possible...so he could get as far as possible from the scene.

Also...how did he close the garage? Would that outside panel work with just a button...or would he have to enter a code? If the code, then he quite possibly had an opener with him (maybe from her car)...or one he made (cloned). You can normally hit a button in a garage to close it, but if you try to run out there's usually a light beam that stops motion once you cross it. In that case the door wouldn't fully close.

So killer had the code. I am picturing AG hearing her garage door going up, crating her dogs, grabbing her coat, thinking a friend was entering the garage and then was no doubt blindsided.

How many friends would AG have given the code to, although I think nic's theory is the right theory.

I really hope LE dusted for prints on the keypad, however, the perp probably was wearing gloves.

imo

 

[roseofsharon]

Re: getting into the house / garage. I think I saw a door from the garage to the outside.

It's hard to know how he got in. I guess based on what PK has stated about AG's garage-visitor behavior, the presence of dogs, and the feeling that she knew and trusted the killer, I still tend to think she let him in.

For me it always seems to come down to the dogs. They were probably her main alarm system, so how did the perp get around them, without setting them off?

One of those criminals in that perp article said something like, he'd go elsewhere if he knew there was a dog at a place. How about 2 dogs, and both shepherds? I can't see anyone devising an elaborate plan to bypass those dogs. I think it was easier for the perp than that.
If he did come up with a big plan in advance, he's smarter than has been suggested.

That said, maybe that mini saw from the ditch had something to do with how he got in.

When AG went out to do errands, did she crate her dogs or let them roam inside her home.

If she crated dogs when she left her home, then perp knew that when she wasn't home, the dogs would be confined, so maybe when perp knew she was going out, entered her home and waited for her to return.

This could be why she was found inside her garage and wearing her coat -- she possibly did not make it inside the house. She may have just gone out to buy cigarettes or pick up a few groceries, but perp had to have known and maybe watched the car pull out of the driveway.

So perp knew the code and knew the dogs were crated. Perp probably made some noise outside around the house before entering to discern where the barking was coming from and to see if the barking stayed localized and then made his/her/their move.

IMO -- premeditated murder.

 

[LilyMacBloom]

You guys/gals are doing a great job with the garage door opener. Here's another peek at what PK said about the garage/door/code/ and I guess

" She gave it to me - she said - in case I ever needed to come while she was out and get tools out of the garage to work. I always found that a bit odd since I never, ever visited when she wasn't home but I never thought enough of it to ask her about it. I can't say with any certainty whether Audrey gave out her code to anyone (e.g. LV) after giving it to me but I can say that the code was not required to close the door and most of the time when Audrey was inside, the garage door would be closed."

Since I know nothing of garage door openers etc. I underlined the part about door closing and hope it helps

 

[Canadian4]

" She gave it to me - she said - in case I ever needed to come while she was out and get tools out of the garage to work. I always found that a bit odd since I never, ever visited when she wasn't home but I never thought enough of it to ask her about it

Didn't he have the code because when he arrived for a visit he would punch the code in and enter through the garage and meet Ms Gleave inside? I'm sure I read that somewhere. So either he had it because he used it when he visited or because he might need it one day to get tools if she was out?

 

[nicgumshoe]

When AG went out to do errands, did she crate her dogs or let them roam inside her home.

If she crated dogs when she left her home, then perp knew that when she wasn't home, the dogs would be confined, so maybe when perp knew she was going out, entered her home and waited for her to return.

This could be why she was found inside her garage and wearing her coat -- she possibly did not make it inside the house. She may have just gone out to buy cigarettes or pick up a few groceries, but perp had to have known and maybe watched the car pull out of the driveway.

So perp knew the code and knew the dogs were crated. Perp probably made some noise outside around the house before entering to discern where the barking was coming from and to see if the barking stayed localized and then made his/her/their move.

IMO -- premeditated murder.

A very good possibility! I think that would very likely be the case in the scenario where AG was being stalked by someone she'd encountered before (auto worker etc) but didn't really know.

It's thought that her purse was in the house, but then maybe she just took a small bit of cash for a quick jaunt to buy smokes etc. Or maybe the perp closed the garage door, and took her purse inside (knowing the dogs were crated) to look through it.