CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #6

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Wonder how long it took this killer to look around and figure out how to close the garage door.

LE have said that the killer was known to Audrey. Perhaps the killer was familiar with the way the garage door opens and closes?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Just some thoughts:

1. Could the "sexual component" be an added 'body part'? I'm thinking of the toys one would purchase in a sex shop. (Don't want to get too graphic here).

2. Perhaps there was blood/marks on the other side of the Camaro. Maybe LE told the TV cameras where to shoot their film.

3. Did Audrey go out to get her mail and the killer took that opportunity to enter the garage and the house while she was walking to/from the mailbox?

4. In fact, do we even know if Audrey locked everything up when she got the mail or was out letting the dogs have a run?

5. Rather than walking to the mailbox, did Audrey drive the car to the mailbox leaving the garage door open for her quick return?

6. The "trauma" LE speaks of - was it stabbing only OR beating + stabbing?

7. If LE states that 'there was significant trauma to the body', how did the handyman think Audrey merely slipped on ice?

8. I'm not certain the "sexual component" was staged. Perhaps the killer was trying to make a statement to/about Audrey.

9. When was the last time Audrey went to the local Library?

?????????????????????????????????

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

From roseofsharon:

<<< Regarding the sexual component, I am baffled. When PK saw A, her stretchy pants were ripped, but her pants were still on.>>>



I'm wearing stretchy, yoga pants right now and I'm wondering:

- do we know where they were ripped - at the waistband, up the legs. in the intestine area, OR on the knees indicationg Audrey was crawling for help?

- again, if the handyman saw a woman in "ripped pants" how could it be the result of falling - unless they were ripped along the side where the pants might have got caught on the car?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

The above has been one of my favorite posts - wondering why there's no name to go with the address that's so close to AG's former home. The City must be aware of who it is - why leave out the name?

Whoever it is, is accepting responsibility for a big project - construction that meets code, inspections at key intervals, liability insurance of likely $1M and expertise to build a house that stays upright. Permits of that size for that purpose aren't handed out to just anybody.

Thinking out loud - weren't all/most of the neighbors aware DLS was living in a barn close by?

Perhaps it's someone who needs to remain anonymous. For example, John Lennon had a home in a remote area of Southern Ontario as a get-away.

:twocents:

 

[Sillybilly]

Regarding the door that connected to the house, I checked all of PK's posts that we have access to at the moment, and he didn't specify which room, though IMO, it is usually the kitchen.

PK said: "....- The garage was connected to the house by a door." ( link )

You are correct Hazel .. don't know where I came up with that misinformation. Must just be a mental picture I have in my mind.

My apologies for misleading, and to PK for attributing this info to him.

 

[Sillybilly]

Just going back through some old posts, and in re-reading some info from "Suzie", this caught my eye:

from:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Audrey Gleave, retired teacher, viciously murdered in home, Ancaster Ontario

-on Dec 23 Suzie was invited as well as another lady to Lynn&#8217;s. Suzie was certain that A. would be a no show because A. had not seen Suzie or this other lady for about the last 7 years and was not at all surprised A. said she was ill. Suzie believed A. would have been uncomfortable not having kept up.

Just wondering if Dec 23 is the date the invite was extended or the date of the actual get-together? And would this be in addition to, or in lieu of, Audrey being invited Christmas Day?

It is interesting to go back and read some of the info from Suzie because she hadn't seen Audrey in 7 years, so it would seem that most of the info from her would be via LV.

-the dogs were very mean and were barracked in the kitchen. Suzie said that when Lynn visited A. would use a fly swatter to keep them at bay. A. loved her dogs.

This info is contradictory. If the dogs were confined in the kitchen, and you only visited outside, why would one need a fly swatter to control them?

-A. loved to talk over their heads about physics and took great pleasure in knowing they had no idea what she was talking about.

Meow??

-A. had stipulated in her will that she be buried in the pet cemetery with her beloved pets.

Um, which Will was that?

-A. had 4 computers in her home.

This was subsequently confirmed to us by PK. If LV was only in the house once, how did she know this?

- Hoarder with piles of stuff everywhere. I asked if A. was a hoarder that would make that TV show and she replied yes. A. never dusted nor vacuumed.

Exactly when was that one only time LV was ever in the house over 30 years?

Come to my digs and talk s#!t like that, I wouldn't invite you in either

 

[Sillybilly]

Arghhh ... I need more coffee or should take a break from this case.

Obviously some of the info I'm questioning came from LV after she was in the house for cleanup purposes.

silly

 

[Sillybilly]

Wouldn't LE have removed all of Audrey's computers from the home?

bbl ... gone to vacuum, dust and declutter

 

[Jade]

The dogs could not have been very mean if they were kept at bay by a fly swatter!

IMO

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Something's off here - would Audrey hit her dogs with a fly swatter? Or with anything?

Makes no sense.

 

[Jade]

From roseofsharon:

<<< Regarding the sexual component, I am baffled. When PK saw A, her stretchy pants were ripped, but her pants were still on.>>>



I'm wearing stretchy, yoga pants right now and I'm wondering:

- do we know where they were ripped - at the waistband, up the legs. in the intestine area, OR on the knees indicationg Audrey was crawling for help?

- again, if the handyman saw a woman in "ripped pants" how could it be the result of falling - unless they were ripped along the side where the pants might have got caught on the car?

PK said he thought she had slipped on ice so I was thinking on a seam, maybe like one foot slipped and she did a split.

Ice inside a garage wouldn't be my first thought…

Since a knife was used in the attack I guess the rip could be a knife slash.

Thank you Hazel for your post with these pictures:

Note how loose the ‘stretchy’ pants are in these pictures.

I guess I was thinking of something tighter like leggings because as mentioned typical stretchy pants aren't real prone to ripping.

A has keys, I think, in one hand and is that a garage door opener in the other?!

[Click on the images to make them bigger]

http://beckettglaves.frontrunnerpro.com/runtime/8242/include/storage/thumb.php?imgName=8242/DeathRecordStub/619536/P1000815.JPG


Or from the way she is holding in this picture some sort of automatic car starter?


http://beckettglaves.frontrunnerpro.com/runtime/8242/include/storage/8242/DeathRecordStub/619536/P1000814.JPG


I'm sure you all, have already discussed this!

 

[Sillybilly]

A has keys, I think, in one hand and is that a garage door opener in the other?!

[Click on the images to make them bigger]

http://beckettglaves.frontrunnerpro.com/runtime/8242/include/storage/thumb.php?imgName=8242/DeathRecordStub/619536/P1000815.JPG


Or from the way she is holding in this picture some sort of automatic car starter?


http://beckettglaves.frontrunnerpro.com/runtime/8242/include/storage/8242/DeathRecordStub/619536/P1000814.JPG

<rsbm>

Looks to me like she's holding a couple of packs of cigarettes, large. Iirc, PK said she smoked Belmonts. Do Belmonts come in the large 25 packs, or just small 20s?

I wonder who took those pics of Audrey with her car.

Is that a McDonald parking lot (i.e. McGarbageBin, McShed, McMenu perhaps ??). Oh, dunno ... could be Timmies too i guess (see upper left of pic **814.jpg that jade posted ^^)

ETA: Enlarged the pic enough to see it is Timmies.

 

[LeftCoaster]

<rsbm>

Looks to me like she's holding a couple of packs of cigarettes, large. Iirc, PK said she smoked Belmonts. Do Belmonts come in the large 25 packs, or just small 20s?

I wonder who took those pics of Audrey with her car.

Looks to me like that pic is taken in a McDonald parking lot (the McGarbageBin, the McShed, the McMenu etc)

Tend to agree that she's holding a cigarette pack or two. Other hand less certain, could be keys or a lighter, IMO. Agree also that it would be interesting to know the identity of the photographer. And wondering, last but not least, if that's THE purse in which all important papers were carried.

 

[Sillybilly]

Just remembering that Audrey wore a distinct ring, and in **815.jpg, i think she has ring(s?) on her left hand. She also seems to be wearing a necklace. Thinking of Suzie's comment wrt Audrey and the ring that Allen would never get back. Why any convo about the ring?

Is it possible that Audrey's ringed hand/finger is the missing body part?

 

[LeftCoaster]

Just remembering that Audrey wore a distinct ring, and in **815.jpg, i think she has ring(s?) on her left hand. She also seems to be wearing a necklace. Thinking of Suzie's comment wrt Audrey and the ring that Allen would never get back. Why any convo about the ring?

Is it possible that Audrey's ringed hand/finger is the missing body part?

While we're rather in anyone-close-is-fair-game mode, the distance of Mr. G has always stunk to me. No mention in the obit... No presence at the vigil or memorial service... Seriously? :what: I am not, shall we say, excessively fond of my ex, some 20 years since the end of the marriage, but were he to turn up dead - especially brutally murdered - I think I'd be a little more interested and concerned, and vice versa I'm fairly sure, than has appeared to be the case. Especially when the man's brother stepped up with the comment about Audrey's premonition about her ultimate fate.

There are, for me, questions about Mr. G's comfort level with the prior marriages - how much he knew, whether he knew about any 'baggage' that could have any repercussions down the line. BIG blank there, and one that could hold useful information. Will trust (sort of!:moo that LE has explored that angle quite thoroughly wrt all three former husbands.

As for speculation about what and where the 'sexual component' of the murder was, I'm more about the WHY. It had to have been some kind of statement, but was the statement one of having 'gotten' Audrey or one intended for those who would see what had been done? As far as I am concerned, the way the pants were ripped and the direction in which Audrey's head was pointed (toward or away from garage door) could say a lot about the murder.

Questions, questions, questions... every day this feels colder.:maddening::coldcase: Please, Mods/reviewers, I hope the missing threads can be returned at all, and if so, soon! lease:

 

[LeftCoaster]

Looks to me like she's holding a couple of packs of cigarettes, large. Iirc, PK said she smoked Belmonts. Do Belmonts come in the large 25 packs, or just small 20s?

<rsbm> I went in for as much of a close up as I could, and Audrey actually seems to have a smallish gift box in her left hand, and I still am not sure about the contents of her right hand, but my guess is still either a lighter or key fob. Not terribly important, but IMO:

 

[Sillybilly]

While we're rather in anyone-close-is-fair-game mode, the distance of Mr. G has always stunk to me. No mention in the obit... No presence at the vigil or memorial service... Seriously? :what: I am not, shall we say, excessively fond of my ex, some 20 years since the end of the marriage, but were he to turn up dead - especially brutally murdered - I think I'd be a little more interested and concerned, and vice versa I'm fairly sure, than has appeared to be the case. Especially when the man's brother stepped up with the comment about Audrey's premonition about her ultimate fate.

There are, for me, questions about Mr. G's comfort level with the prior marriages - how much he knew, whether he knew about any 'baggage' that could have any repercussions down the line. BIG blank there, and one that could hold useful information. Will trust (sort of!:moo that LE has explored that angle quite thoroughly wrt all three former husbands.

As for speculation about what and where the 'sexual component' of the murder was, I'm more about the WHY. It had to have been some kind of statement, but was the statement one of having 'gotten' Audrey or one intended for those who would see what had been done? As far as I am concerned, the way the pants were ripped and the direction in which Audrey's head was pointed (toward or away from garage door) could say a lot about the murder.

Questions, questions, questions... every day this feels colder.:maddening::coldcase: Please, Mods/reviewers, I hope the missing threads can be returned at all, and if so, soon! lease:

Yes, hard to know who the victims are in this case, but as they had no contact since 1976, it doesn't seem like he's a grieving husband here.

IMO, it's odd
a) that David said Allen did not sound upset
b) that David felt the need to mention that
c) that David felt the need to convey what Audrey had once told him about her fear.

That's partly why I was asking re why the ring was a topic of conversation surrounding Audrey's death and the possibility of it being the missing item (on or off finger). Why would Audrey have ever commented that Allan would never get it back when it was supposed to have been a gift in the first place? Why would he ever expect it back? Can't find it right now, but i also seem to recall to the effect that Audrey told Allan she would never sell or leave the house. Anyone else recall that? Because he built the house, maybe Allan expected that if Audrey died, she would have willed it back to him. We don't know much about Allan in his new life. FWIW, if it's one and the same, there is a Mason of the same name in Sturgeon Falls.

IMO, the what/where specifics of the sexual component are possibly important in determining the why. When I think of staging, i'm not thinking necessarily "posed". Just staged to make a motive appear to be something other than what it was.

JMO

 

[colette]

Her car was so beautiful. I wonder if Audrey had been followed at some point, then later the killer returned. My point is that car would attract a lot of attention, especially from young males.

 

[dotr]

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/309473---that-s-so-audrey

"Gleave was a bit of a foodie and loved some particular recipes, including a specific spaghetti sauce and a coffee cake her ex-husband had made many years ago, he said. So for Christmas, Gleave asked for one of these cakes from Kinsman, whose wife, Alex, is a pastry chef.

Gleave was feeling ill over Christmas, so they arranged to drop the cake off the following Thursday morning. It was with the gift in hand that Kinsman stumbled on the horrific scene"


Bbm

 

[dotr]

Wondering if Audrey happened to mention to anyone that someone was making her a favorite special cake from the old days?

Did Audrey also have a favorite soup?