CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #6

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  • #621
Her car was so beautiful. I wonder if Audrey had been followed at some point, then later the killer returned. My point is that car would attract a lot of attention, especially from young males.

While I agree the car was a beauty, and I can see it attracting attention from young males, but to what end? Senior citizen, the car wasn't taken, no apparent robbery ...

LE initially said it was a stranger attack, but they now seem determined it is someone Audrey knew, not a stranger. Sgt Hrab had some training in profiling at some point in his career (thus possibly the early info wrt a stranger fitting in with the immediate DLS scenario). I'm sure down the road there would have been a brainstorming session that included a few more BAU types, resulting in the change re possible perp. We don't know why it was changed up to being someone she knew .. just that it was and has remained so for almost 2 years.
 
  • #622
When PK found A's body, he said A's eyes were open and that it was like she was looking back at him (paraphrasing).

In A's pictures, she is wearing her glasses. I wonder if she had her glasses on when PK found her or were they found on the garage floor somewhere or were they in her home. It appears A wore her glasses when she drove and when she left the house. A is wearing her glasses in the picture of her and LV.

I read that if a person dies with their eyes open, it means they were conscious when they died.

If someone wants someone dead, why would they beat the person first?

We know A was stabbed, so why the beating first? This sounds very personal, but why and why between Christmas and NY.

I suppose the beating could have occurred after the stabbing?

imo
 
  • #623
Just remembering that Audrey wore a distinct ring, and in **815.jpg, i think she has ring(s?) on her left hand. She also seems to be wearing a necklace. Thinking of Suzie's comment wrt Audrey and the ring that Allen would never get back. Why any convo about the ring?

Is it possible that Audrey's ringed hand/finger is the missing body part?
This from Susie's:
A. had a very beautiful ring which he gave her and remarked that was the best thing of the relationship and that he was never getting it back. ( link )
I'm going back to the conversation I had with girl I know who is good friends with LV.

IF the right opportunity arises (as I feel like I'm starting to be a pest) I will ask her if she knows what became of the engagement ring. ( link )

I asked my friend about AGs ring. The ring has never been mentioned and she will make enquires for us. After re-reading Mellors article posted by NSU I'm wondering if the ring was cut off and thereby the "trophy" . My friend again described the ring as "very beautiful". ( link )

Suzie made enquirey of LV, AG hadn't worn the ring for the last 8 years or so.

So much for that trophey idea ( link )
 
  • #624
It's funny how you can be around this case so much, but something new will still jump out at you (well, me ;))

Audrey had been married 3 times by the time she was 32. I suppose we could say she just gave up after that third time. We don't know the reasons for the earlier marriages dissolving, but her marriage to Allan seems to have lasted the longest, and it was HE who left her for another woman. So it seems in his earlier years at least, Allan wasn't opposed to cavorting outside a committed relationship. Did Audrey still carry a bit of torch for Allan? Was the special cake to be kept for special company that might drop in at a special time of year?

In my gut, I don't feel the above is really the case, but i suppose it is a possibility until such time as we know otherwise. :sigh:
 
  • #625
This is one of the few VIDEO clips that still work.

- neighbours interviewed
- property view from different angles
- ex-husband's voice on the phone
- more

(click on image to play video)


(Repost of post #566, Thread 3. link )
 
  • #626
Why does Suzie say in November 2011 that the ring has never been mentioned when it was mentioned by LV>Suzie>LilyMcB in January 2011?

Suzie hadn't seen AG for 7 years, so therefore the reference to AG not having worn the ring for 8 years had to have come from LV. Why was LV talking to Suzie about the ring prior to January 10 (the date of LilyMcB's post) so soon after Audrey's murder?
 
  • #627
Surprisingly, A's car looks dirty on the driver's side (may be my computer).

The little box in A's hand appears to have a black bar code across the top, but the box also reminds me of a box that an 8mm video tape would have come in during the 70's.

Just imo.
 
  • #628
Surprisingly, A's car looks dirty on the driver's side (may be my computer).

The little box in A's hand appears to have a black bar code across the top, but the box also reminds me of a box that an 8mm video tape would have come in during the 70's.

Just imo.

Rose, that car is so clean ... what looks like dirt is a reflection from some splotching on the pavement
 
  • #629
Surprisingly, A's car looks dirty on the driver's side (may be my computer).

The little box in A's hand appears to have a black bar code across the top, but the box also reminds me of a box that an 8mm video tape would have come in during the 70's.

Just imo.

Did not notice those smudges in earlier pics. but this time it looked like the lower part of the driver's door area may have been dusted for fingerprints.
 
  • #630
I had this random, probably irrelevant thought the other day: Audrey Gleave, her ex-husband, and Amazing Grace share the same initials. Coincidence or clue? Just watching the video clip and listening to the newscaster's final words brought that back. Added to the suggestion that she might have been either surprised by or expecting a visitor from the past (thus, the cake made by someone else from a favourite recipe), with this discussion about the ring and such....
*shudders, shakes head...*
 
  • #631
"Since retiring from Hamilton's Westdale Secondary School in 2006, Gleave enjoyed playing tennis, talking about gardening and meeting up with old colleagues for a computer club, neighbour Boyd Sharp recalled.

While other neighbours described Gleave as a recluse, Sharp recalled a "generous" woman who "loved to talk" when the two would meet at the end of their properties.

Gleave had two big and "mean" German Shepherds who she would lock up when Sharp and his wife, Margaret, would visit.

"I don't know how they (the attacker or attackers) would of got by her dogs, unless they shot them," Boyd said.

Down the street, Darryl Ferguson said he saw Gleave "three times in four years, other than waving, going by in the car."

"She's been a loner all her life," he said.

"She would e-mail my mom or call her once a year, twice a year," said Ferguson's son, Cam. "She just liked to stay, stay to herself."

1. Last sentence by Ferguson son e-mail OR called one or twice per YEAR so much for Amazing Grace being but another email much more likely it is tied to the crime.
2. Ferguson father opines she's been a loner "all her life" does suggest Audrey is a topic of conversation how would he know that?
3. Gleave in Ancaster listed at 311 Wilson Street East same building as Real Estate company a relative or just same name? Gleave is not common also someone with that name in a retired home it seems on Fiddlers Green in Ancaster.
4. It has been mentioned A's husband AG uncle was with Hamilton Police years ago someone here said that would be forgotten. I doubt that is completely true. Favour?
5. From Dotr's recent post seems likely the coffee cake and the Texas bunt cake are one and the same. Focus on the engagement ring by Suzie ummm...I think people are linking to the marriage whether they realize it or not.
6. Last met at Dad's funeral. Lots of the emphasis that she had no relatives seems to be coming from A.G.? Is he the original source of the hermit story? Does he know LV directly or through some conduit? Is he protesting too much about no relatives because of someone who DOES have relatives there - who were watching Audrey? Messing with her long term hence her "eccentricities"?
7. Recent post on injuries I still think likely Audrey was held and beaten for some piece of info likely the whereabouts of something.
8. Seems incredible but we have to bring the former husband(s) back into things.
9. No Stone's insistence on the cake (and I admit I had no idea until now why they kept insisting on this) as important clue may be correct.
10. Too many suspects IMO...... but it is hard to cut anyone out. I agree this far with 2SoccerMom a large conspiracy is farfetched - but again who to leave out? If one or more are dupes it makes more sense.
 
  • #632
  • #633
Thoughts(?) ... I would like to know if LV had an email address and if she did, how many times did A email LV. Why wouldn't LV have received the Amazing Grace video. If one was sending out an email, especially one that A, no doubt thought was beautiful, why wouldn't she include LV on the the recipient list.

If a person used the name "Audrey" in an email to her, why were they automatically disregarded from that day forward. :waitasec:

Why would your friend sit outside your home, but your handyman welcome to come in, regardless of the clutter, maybe because he was working inside the home. PK has discussed gardening for A, but what types of jobs were done inside the home for A, since PK had been in most rooms.

How well was A acquainted with LV's family. Well enough that A bequeathed everything to LV's brother, should something happen to LV.

imo
 
  • #634
Thoughts(?) ... I would like to know if LV had an email address and if she did, how many times did A email LV. Why wouldn't LV have received the Amazing Grace video.
If a person used the name "Audrey" in an email to her, why were they automatically disregarded from that day forward. :waitasec:

Why would your friend sit outside your home, but your handyman welcome to come in, regardless of the clutter, maybe because he was working inside the home. PK has discussed gardening for A, but what types of jobs were done inside the home for A, since PK had been in most rooms.

How well was A acquainted with LV's family. Well enough that A bequeathed everything to LV's brother, should something happen to LV.

imo
Snipped slightly:

Somehow I guess we need to run through the above formulations and others like them as if they were true and as if they were not not. Tough to keep this together in our various scenarios. Personally I have been seriously doubting the outward facts as in R.S.'s post but have to try to get head around the fact they might be the case e.g. the bequeathing to the brother of LV.

Certainly we don't know enough about Audrey's or last husband's feelings about their relationship and in normal circumstances it of course wouldn't be any of our business. I doubt that "fart-face" sums up the full complexity of the relationship including regrets on either side. I can't help thinking of the fact that Audrey was left for a karate student...and then the beating AND knifing...maybe Audrey getting the house wasn't as unproblematical as made out in media - Wells and others kind of elide over the story at that point. I can't help feeling that great deference is being made to her former husband.... just normal respect for privacy given the long ago divorce or something else?

House Ring Cake

The brother in law: is it possible he is telling just part of the story about the feared rape and murder? Maybe Audrey said she was afraid of being raped and killed by X? If so who?
 
  • #635
Tossing thoughts out there:

- Could there have been "something" between Audrey and the brother-in-law?

- Maybe the phrase about 'he'll never get this ring back from me' was said in haste and anger. If my husband left me for a young thing, I'd probably say something like 'That young thing will never ride in MY Corvette and she'll never live in MY house'. You know, these quick angry things that we tend to blurt out.

- Do we know for certain that Audrey's Camaro was dusted for prints?

- Wondering if the young boy neighbour was polygraphed? Is he a POI? How often was Audrey in personal contact with that neighbour/family?

- Who would set up the handyman and why?
 
  • #636
Tossing thoughts out there:

- Could there have been "something" between Audrey and the brother-in-law?

- Maybe the phrase about 'he'll never get this ring back from me' was said in haste and anger. If my husband left me for a young thing, I'd probably say something like 'That young thing will never ride in MY Corvette and she'll never live in MY house'. You know, these quick angry things that we tend to blurt out.

- Do we know for certain that Audrey's Camaro was dusted for prints?

- Wondering if the young boy neighbour was polygraphed? Is he a POI? How often was Audrey in personal contact with that neighbour/family?

- Who would set up the handyman and why?

Catching those thoughts, Stone.

We're on the same page (no pun intended) about wondering how it is that the BIL effectively served as Gleave family spokesperson (when the former husband emphasized as he did that Audrey had no relatives other than himself, yet made no effort that we know of, beyond a sound-bite interview in MSM to be present for her memorial or sorting through the home). :fish: Suggests there might be some more than meets the eye there. Oh yeah, and there's the issue of Audrey communicating the premonition (if that's what it was) to BIL who shared it with Jon Wells. :waitasec:

Quick-angry-blurt is what I would agree the nickname and any remarks Audrey made about ring or other possessions were. She was the one left behind in the marriage. (Disclosure: my own marriage ended when I was 28, as a result of then-husband's philandering. Angry nicknames were a 'safe' way to dial the situation and him down to size, and to sound a kind of warning to those who would later conversationally reopen old wounds.) I wonder if there was a discrepant desire for children (she wanted, he didn't) in each of the unions, as I recall that Mr. G and the new wife did not have children (cf Wells) after relocating north. Former MIL's weighing in with Wells, with the comment about Audrey's intellect having negatively impacted on the marriage, is curious, too.:twocents:

It wouldn't be a surprise if Audrey had trouble containing resentment at being expected to stay as long as she lived in the home designed by her ex-husband. Further to that - and it isn't something we're going to be able to find out in this forum - if the staying in the marital home amounted to some kind of "chastity clause" (i.e., discouraging her remarriage or even dating with the prospect of her having to sell, surrender proceeds, and relocate), at the least we can understand bitter remarks, and at the most... a frightening premonition about the fate of a woman known to be living alone in a rural setting. If Audrey felt there was surveillance of her private life.... *lets that one hang*

Given that her body was found in the garage and the car was removed by LE, I would hope to goodness that the car would have been all but completely disassembled if necessary in a search for evidence. So, while we don't have absolutely verified knowledge of dusting for fingerprints, can we not reasonably assume it would be part of the process? Still would like to know what did become of the Camaro.

Young male neighbour should be a POI if for nothing else than that he would fit the profile of "young and close." He seems to be a presence on the memorial Facebook page. Again, can't verify through any formal channels as to his having been checked out by LE (darnit:banghead:). There does seem to be some disconnect between each member of that household about the frequency and depth of interaction with Audrey. I continue to think geographical proximity played a part in the sending of Amazing Grace.:twocents:

As for the setup of PK by the perp... We've covered the gamut here, I'd say :moo:. A jealous potential beneficiary of Audrey's? A depraved opportunist (familiar with area and/or Audrey's personal details) who figured on getaway/obfuscation time while 'obvious' suspects were fingered and investigated? Audrey herself, heaven forbid? Someone from the past with a score to settle, be it professional, academic, or shadier? Just about any of those comes with a supporting argument. Take innocuous matters such as cake deliveries, contradictory messages about illness and cabin fever, three days off the radar by a private person, a :fish: strangely presented LW&T made on her 70th birthday and not updated, and the quick handling of post-mortem affairs.... I see someone who either had a serious hate on for the handyman, or saw him as a means to some end.:twocents:

Okay, throwing the thoughts onward to any willing catchers :wink:

LC
 
  • #637
In the various scenarios we've discussed, something that seems so totally discordant with the claims of PK and LV is ... supposedly they both knew Audrey was ill ... yet PK (who normally received emails from Audrey on a daily basis) didn't bother to check on her after his call of December 25, and LV (who usually visited once or twice a week) didn't bother to check on her after the supposed delivery of the soup.

Had PK not shown up to deliver the cake, when was LV going to be in touch? When referring to LV's delivery of the soup, where is the "and i called her every day and there was no answer", or "I talked with her by phone on Tuesday or Wednesday and she was still ill (or she was fine ... or she said blah blah)?

PK's delivery of the cake put him smack dab at the scene of the crime when he needn't have done so. If he was guilty of the crime, what would have warranted his physical presence at the scene after the fact? If he was guilty of the crime and it was a matter of wanting Audrey's body discovered (remorse?), he could have simply called LE and said he was concerned for her well-being as she wasnt' answering her phone. Mind you, maybe there was something that couldn't be explained away by a phone call (i.e a possibility of his footprints in blood at the scene).


JMO
 
  • #638
It is unbelievable that neither PK nor LV would call to check on someone who was ill.

Did the BIL know either LV or PK? Did the BIL ever meet these two people?

I still think the delivery of the cake is connected to the killing. How, I don't know. Was he set up? Was he in on it? What were the discrepancies in the polygraph? Is he the only POI?

Did Audrey herself set up PK? If so, why and how and with whom? Was it a set-up gone wrong?

And why did it happen at the end of one year and (nearly) the start of another? Dark days = depression = aggression = murder?

Did someone learn that 'the illness' was not true and lost their cool? Did they learn of why the illness was feigned and this led to murder? Did the killer bring the killing instruments with himself OR did he just pick up something in the house/garage?

And why isn't this case solved yet?
 
  • #639
Audrey had some sort of cold or flu, she wasn't seriously ill. This was around Christmas, everyone is very busy at this time. There would have been no real reason to call and check everyday.
 
  • #640
Audrey had some sort of cold or flu, she wasn't seriously ill. This was around Christmas, everyone is very busy at this time. There would have been no real reason to call and check everyday.

Who do you think is responsible for Audrey's murder, and what information do you base your opinion on?
 
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