Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #10

[MistyWaters]

In my experience, that’s a highly unusual request of JS to make of the Star.

It demonstrates a lack of knowing how journalists work and their ethics or possibly like you said a loss of faith in the Star itself.

He can’t control what is being reported or the narrative. He can only control what he says and who he speaks to in the press.

(I hope @ABro chimes in with her opinion.)

Yes I’d agree the issue of trust is involved to a great degree. Reporters can be inclined to snip and isolate phrases, then create an entirely different context from what the speaker intended, some MSM more so than others. Because no charges have been laid as yet, he’s wise to be cautious.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Yes I’d agree the issue of trust is involved to a great degree. Reporters can be inclined to snip and isolate phrases, then create an entirely different context from what the speaker intended, some MSM more so than others. Because no charges have been laid as yet, he’s wise to be cautious.

RBBM
I’d tend to agree with you, but Greenspan has given away information about the case that could be used to the killer’s or his defense attorney’s advantage, IMO: BS’s body position, allegations of evidence left at the scene, inept initial investigation at the crime scene.

ETA: If you or someone else versed on the law could explain why Greenspan might have done the above at the press conference, I’d appreciate it. I don’t understand it and I may have it wrong.

 

[andreww]

TPS would not release the evidence, since it compromises the investigation, but the family did: Barry's hand were tightly bound, that's something police always take as evidence of murder.

I believe it was Greenspan that released that, not TPS. Even so, that is NOT what was said. What was said was that there MAY have been evidence that their wrists MIGHT have been bound together. Now I'm just reading between the lines here but I am going to go out on a limb and say that these markings weren't as telling as Greenspin made them out to be. We do not know if the markings showed on one or both of their wrists either. All we know for a fact is that the coroner saw something and removed the skin from both of their wrists for further examination. We do not know the results of those tests. Also, Greenspin makes a point of saying Honey was found in a pool of her own blood. Is he exaggerating this as well? We don't know. But reading between the lines again, if Honey was murdered in a secondary location, and was bleeding profusely as Greenspin claims, there should have been a clear blood trail between the two locations. Again, I feel Greenspan might be exaggerating to further his stance to the public.

 

[andreww]

If the bodies were set and staged we know Barry could not have managed that.

What are your thoughts on this aspect?

I honestly disagree with that comment. It would require some effort to drag Honey's body to the pool area, that is true, but you have to remember that theoretically Barry had as many hours as he needed to do this. I have also been told that Barry had a personal trainer who has said that he was "very strong". So I really don't think you can dismiss Barry's involvement simply because you don't believe that at 75 he was physically incapable.

 

[andreww]

RBBM
I’d tend to agree with you, but Greenspan has given away information about the case that could be used to the killer’s or his defense attorney’s advantage, IMO: BS’s body position, allegations of evidence left at the scene, inept initial investigation at the crime scene.

Greenspan can say what he likes, but without access to TPS files, how would he know that the investigation was inept? Greenspin is simply trying to alter the publics perception of TPS. Contrary to what you or anyone else might believe, police do NOT dust every inch of a house for fingerprints, they identify areas where an intruder very likely would have touched and they concentrate on those areas. So would they check the oven, kitchen cabinets, laundry room, or medicine cabinet? Likely not. But you can bet Greenspin found his 28 prints in areas like this. I'd wager that I could go in that house today and find 28 prints that Greenspin missed.

 

[andreww]

Personally, I have no interest in pretending I know more about the case than LE. As was stated in the November TPS press conference, they have the evidence and won't release it because they are trying to catch the perps.

I also have zero interest in conspiracy theories, they're pure imagination. You might as well claim the head honchos at TPS have been replaced by cyborgs controlled by the Illuminati, who are intent on using Apotex to implant spy cams in generic drugs.

SO why are you here? If you are ONLY going to believe what police tell you, what is there to discuss? And have the head honchos in this case been replaced by cyborgs? That would be a good thing, because from what I know they haven't been replaced at all. This is something that you all want to ignore, that there is only one officer currently active on the highest profile case in the city right now. There are likely more cops than that handing out parking tickets on my block right now. Sure, no conspiracy here

 

[andreww]

Two days before the anniversary of Barry Sherman’s murder, Jonathon Sherman told his father’s longtime partner and friend Jack Kay to leave Apotex, the generic drug company the two men built over 35 years.

Barry Sherman’s son tells Apotex CEO to leave | The Star

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Two days before the anniversary of Barry Sherman’s murder, Jonathon Sherman told his father’s longtime partner and friend Jack Kay to leave Apotex, the generic drug company the two men built over 35 years.

Barry Sherman’s son tells Apotex CEO to leave | The Star

What do you think of that?

 

[andreww]

The Star has made several attempts to interview Jonathon Sherman about his parents and their legacy. However, the Star could not agree to Sherman’s terms — he wanted “sole and absolute discretion” to edit any information about him of which he did not approve.
Interesting. What is he trying to hide? The family seems overly concerned about controlling the media.


Kay wanted to make sure Sherman’s “legacy was protected,” sources say.
I think the entire family is doing that. But protected from what?

 

[andreww]

What do you think of that?

Not sure what to make of that. Kay apparently wasn't planning on staying long anyway, but IMO it's totally disrespectful for Jonathon to let him go in such a manner. Having to come back after business hours to collect his personal belongings? Really?

 

[andreww]

I had been reading some employee reviews of Apotex yesterday and found that a common complaint was that employees had a hard time meeting unrealistic deadlines. Perhaps Jonathon was not happy with Kay's decision to give all employees a day off? Seems odd that he would do this on the anniversary of his parents death, a time when people would be looking for anything Sherman in their news feeds.

 

[JDG]

Not sure what to make of that. Kay apparently wasn't planning on staying long anyway, but IMO it's totally disrespectful for Jonathon to let him go in such a manner. Having to come back after business hours to collect his personal belongings? Really?

That's normal procedure in a dismissal.

At my spouses' workplace, they meet you at the elevator with your belongings, right after your lunch break on either Monday or Friday.

Its so that you cannot access computers/mess with projects etc.

I imagine Jack Kay had access to 'everything' and JS doesn't want it interfered with upon leaving.

I'm sure he will have had security with him if he was allowed to pack for himself.

Nothing abnormal about this at all. If JS and his sisters own the company, its up to them who they keep or not.

Jack Kay is 78 years of age.

 

[dotr]

Curious if any of JK's family work at Apotex, what about JS's husband?

 

[andreww]

That's normal procedure in a dismissal.

At my spouses' workplace, they meet you at the elevator with your belongings, right after your lunch break on either Monday or Friday.

Its so that you cannot access computers/mess with projects etc.

I imagine Jack Kay had access to 'everything' and JS doesn't want it interfered with upon leaving.

I'm sure he will have had security with him if he was allowed to pack for himself.

Nothing abnormal about this at all. If JS and his sisters own the company, its up to them who they keep or not.

Jack Kay is 78 years of age.

Maybe the case for a normal employee, not a company founder and shareholder. These days you can cut off a person's network credentials making access to information impossible.

 

[MistyWaters]

RBBM
I’d tend to agree with you, but Greenspan has given away information about the case that could be used to the killer’s or his defense attorney’s advantage, IMO: BS’s body position, allegations of evidence left at the scene, inept initial investigation at the crime scene.

ETA: If you or someone else versed on the law could explain why Greenspan might have done the above at the press conference, I’d appreciate it. I don’t understand it and I may have it wrong.

On the theory that Greenspan/PI team and TPS are indeed collaborating their efforts and the adversarial fluff is a media show, the few details Greenspan gave does support a double homicide having occurred and therefore wipes away the early m/s rumours by legitimizing LE’s ongoing homicide investigation.

The worst case scenario, critical witnesses might be reluctant to come forward if they thought the manner of the Sherman deaths was still being questioned.

A thought that crossed my mind as well, while Greenspan claims LE has not been cooperative in sharing information, he and his team must’ve been granted access to crime scene photos. Otherwise how would be know the body positioning?

 

[MistyWaters]

That's normal procedure in a dismissal.

At my spouses' workplace, they meet you at the elevator with your belongings, right after your lunch break on either Monday or Friday.

Its so that you cannot access computers/mess with projects etc.

I imagine Jack Kay had access to 'everything' and JS doesn't want it interfered with upon leaving.

I'm sure he will have had security with him if he was allowed to pack for himself.

Nothing abnormal about this at all. If JS and his sisters own the company, its up to them who they keep or not.

Jack Kay is 78 years of age.

Prior to the murders, Jack Kay had already withdrew from active involvement in Apotex. Then was Vice-Chairman, Barry was Chairman.

The “let go” story published by Donovan seems a ridiculous to me because JK, well into his late 70s, had already once been on the path toward retirement and appears to have only stepped back into a more direct senior management role to assist the family during the transitional period following the death of their parents.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Is it possible Apotex floated out this story to protect Jack Kay from the murderer(s)?

 

[JDG]

Maybe the case for a normal employee, not a company founder and shareholder. These days you can cut off a person's network credentials making access to information impossible.

They were 'showing him the door' if you believe the article.
That's done as the 'owners' wish, JS and his sisters.

Doesn't matter who it is/what their position is/was or if they're a shareholder.
This is a private company, he can sell his shares to JS and sisters.

 

[William_60]

I honestly disagree with that comment. It would require some effort to drag Honey's body to the pool area, that is true, but you have to remember that theoretically Barry had as many hours as he needed to do this. I have also been told that Barry had a personal trainer who has said that he was "very strong". So I really don't think you can dismiss Barry's involvement simply because you don't believe that at 75 he was physically incapable.

Whether Barry had the physical capability to carry Honey is debatable, but I don't view this as impossible by any means.

I haven't seen him described anywhere as particularly active physically, certainly no hints of athleticism. The opposite seems to be the case, an office athlete, who often didn't eat right, so deeply involved in work.

In an angry, exhilarated state, people do extraordinary things, or things others might view as beyond them.

(But...)

My point was he couldn't stage himself, depending on just what the nature of the staging was. What was the tipping point which led to the summation the couple were killed and staged?

I'll have to comb previous comments as to how they were found, but I'm not optimistic I'll have a clear picture of The Scene if I do.

 

[andreww]

Whether Barry had the physical capability to carry Honey is debatable, but I don't view this as impossible by any means.

I haven't seen him described anywhere as particularly active physically, certainly no hints of athleticism. The opposite seems to be the case, an office athlete, who often didn't eat right, so deeply involved in work.

In an angry, exhilarated state, people do extraordinary things, or things others might view as beyond them.

(But...)

My point was he couldn't stage himself, depending on just what the nature of the staging was. What was the tipping point which led to the summation the couple were killed and staged?

I'll have to comb previous comments as to how they were found, but I'm not optimistic I'll have a clear picture of The Scene if I do.

The belief that the scene was staged I believe is bases on the fact that Honey was killed elsewhere in the house and moved to the pool area. That part of it was staged for sure.

As for Barry killing himself, pretty easily really. On his knees he wraps the belt around his neck and the pool rail. Once he's done that, he slides his jacket halfway back, then it's simply a matter of assuming a sitting position.

Some here have said that there is no way his legs would be crossed or that his glasses wouldn't remain on his face as he would have been flailing around. I have posted articles in the past that disprove this, saying that the person doesn't actually choke to death initially, that the ligature constricts blood flow to the brain cause quick loss of consciousness and a somewhat peaceful death.