Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #10

[Lexiintoronto]

the things to look for with an unknown killer are always the same. I have read this same description many times on here with unknown killers.

With the invention of the car and the freeway system, killers come from far away sometime so a killer may not be noticed to be connected if he lives far away.

There were a number of break-ins in the Shermans’ neighbourhood. Often criminals ‘work’ close to home.

Maybe if you drew a 10k circle around the Sherman home the killer(s) might live within that radius.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Delete

 

[dotr]

There were a number of break-ins in the Shermans’ neighbourhood. Often criminals ‘work’ close to home.

Maybe if you drew a 10k circle around the Sherman home the killer(s) might live within that radius.

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50 Old Colony Rd
North York, ON M2L 2K1

50 Old Colony Rd, 50 Old Colony Rd, Toronto, ON, Canada - Luxury Home for Sale - Mansion Global

 

[dotr]

I recall reading one of Ann Rule’s books, and the way in which LE notice psychopaths act differently because they become closely drawn to the crimes they commit. She was referring to Ted Bundy and explained some of his antics in detail. Depending on the profile of the suspected killer, Police Chief Saunders may have been referring to that as well.

“Ordinary lawbreakers will avoid the police and not volunteer to help them solve crimes. On the other hand, psychopaths often see their criminal activities as a game between themselves and the police and are often detected in this way. For example, journalist Ann Rule (1986) wrote about Ted Bundy: “His cunning jousts with police were always akin to Dungeons and Dragons, and he so delighted in outwitting them, watching them scurry around to do what he considered his bidding.”
Helpful Hints: Psychopathic Behavior - PoliceLink

fwiw, starting approx. @ 7:30

 

[Tighthead]

The “Estate Lawyer” is retained by the executors; he or she does not represent the Estate. They represent the executors in the administration of the estate.

The lawyer who drafted the will is not always the one who acts in the probate process. There are a multitude of reasons for this, although with people like the Shermans you would want a lawyer familiar with the structure of their affairs.

The lawyer in this case would have assisted the executors in making a diligent search for the original will. This would include searching the wills database, safety deposit boxes, the home, and any lawyers offices she may have dealt with.

If a lawyer had recently prepared a will and knew Honey was dead, he/she would contact the named executors.

 

[Satchie]

The Sherman children have also made a “major” donation
Re bbm: Without a Will?

RSBM

I believe this money would have come from the Apotex Foundation, which is independent, not owned by anyone. It would have been set up with a large endowment for the sole purpose of ongoing donations to certain kinds of charities. The money wouldn't be accessible for any other purpose than that.

The Sherman's didn't have a pot of $5 billion, all that wealth is their private ownership of the business, they'd have drawn spending money from it. If any of the children want their inheritance in cash, they'll have to sell their share of the business to someone.

 

[MistyWaters]

The “Estate Lawyer” is retained by the executors; he or she does not represent the Estate. They represent the executors in the administration of the estate.

The lawyer who drafted the will is not always the one who acts in the probate process. There are a multitude of reasons for this, although with people like the Shermans you would want a lawyer familiar with the structure of their affairs.

The lawyer in this case would have assisted the executors in making a diligent search for the original will. This would include searching the wills database, safety deposit boxes, the home, and any lawyers offices she may have dealt with.

If a lawyer had recently prepared a will and knew Honey was dead, he/she would contact the named executors.

Thanks for sharing your insight! Points (6) through (9) on the court transcript below indicate to me that the Certificate of Appointment of Estate Trustee for both of the estates had already been filed and issued in June, 2018 and by then the files were also sealed. By that time the Trustee would be in a position to proceed disbursing the Estate. So why a month later in July, 2018 is Youman not sure if Honey has a Will or not, apparently stating this in open court? Are you able to clarify?

CanLII - 2018 ONSC 4706 (CanLII)

 

[casesensitive]

I’m afraid you have lost me. Barry’s will apparently said that if he died first, honey would inherit. His will also said that if she died first, then his kids would inherit when Barry eventually died. Seems straightforward to me, I’m not sure what you are suggesting is confusing or contradictory.

You are correct Idlager, I misinterpreted the sentence. I read it as HS's will left their estate to the kids even if BS was still living. Sorry for confusing the issue.

 

[Satchie]

Thanks for sharing your insight! Points (6) through (9) on the court transcript below indicate to me that the Certificate of Appointment of Estate Trustee for both of the estates had already been filed and issued in June, 2018 and by then the files were also sealed. By that time the Trustee would be in a position to proceed disbursing the Estate. So why a month later in July, 2018 is Youman not sure if Honey has a Will or not, apparently stating this in open court? Are you able to clarify?

CanLII - 2018 ONSC 4706 (CanLII)

I think you should send this question to Kevin Donovan! Unfortunately, I notice journalists don't publish their email addresses any more.

 

[Tighthead]

Thanks for sharing your insight! Points (6) through (9) on the court transcript below indicate to me that the Certificate of Appointment of Estate Trustee for both of the estates had already been filed and issued in June, 2018 and by then the files were also sealed. By that time the Trustee would be in a position to proceed disbursing the Estate. So why a month later in July, 2018 is Youman not sure if Honey has a Will or not, apparently stating this in open court? Are you able to clarify?

CanLII - 2018 ONSC 4706 (CanLII)

I would assume that the appointment in Honey’s case is made with the disclosure to the court that no will has been found, and the existence of said will is in question. It would not survive the appointment of other executors in a valid will.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

The “Estate Lawyer” is retained by the executors; he or she does not represent the Estate. They represent the executors in the administration of the estate.

The lawyer who drafted the will is not always the one who acts in the probate process. There are a multitude of reasons for this, although with people like the Shermans you would want a lawyer familiar with the structure of their affairs.

The lawyer in this case would have assisted the executors in making a diligent search for the original will. This would include searching the wills database, safety deposit boxes, the home, and any lawyers offices she may have dealt with.

If a lawyer had recently prepared a will and knew Honey was dead, he/she would contact the named executors.

What if the lawyer did not keep an original copy and HS’s will was destroyed? (Asking, not challenging).

A will that is destroyed by the testator is revoked. You can revoke a will be tearing it, burning it, or the like. Generally, if you make a new will you may wish to destroy previous ones. However, if there is any concern about the validity of a new will, then retaining a prior valid will can be helpful.

Revoking a will | Ontario Wills, Probate & Estates Law

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I think you should send this question to Kevin Donovan! Unfortunately, I notice journalists don't publish their email addresses any more.

Maclean’s!!^^^^ For your next article.

 

[Satchie]

From the Macleans article...

if Honey died before her husband, his assets would be divided among his children, per his will; if she died after him, her estate would be arbitrated in court.
Thats what I said, but those that purport to know more than I claimed I was wrong. Hmm, who to believe?

A month later, the Toronto Sun reported a ramping down: several police officers heading the unsolved Sherman investigation had been promoted or are on a list to rise up the ranks. The Toronto Star has reported there is now only one-full time officer on the case.
I've said it before. TPS are not actively working this case.

By then, the family had obtained a two-year blanket seal order to keep private the progress of the Toronto police homicide probe to protect the “privacy and dignity” of the deceased couple and their loved ones.
Me thinks they are doing whatever possible to keep facts from the public.

The family was also supported by Toronto mayor John Tory, a Sherman family friend and member of the Toronto Police board, who communicated their dissatisfaction to the TPS.
So the mayor is telling the police chief that the family is not happy, despite the fact that none of them have seen the crime scene or any of the evidence of the case? No added pressure there.

“I have to be cognizant that the suspect or suspects are watching right now. I know that for a fact.” How he knew that for “a fact,” short of seeing the suspect or suspects in the audience in front of him, is unclear. TPS did not respond to Maclean’s request for clarification.
Such bullsh1t. How can read that and not know that he is lying to you?

I don't necessarily agree with your interpretations, but I think it's useful your pointing out that that there are multiple interests trying to control public perceptions around this. No one is being straightforward and direct, everyone has a hidden agenda, no one can be trusted to be speaking the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

During the Winter v. Sherman case, BS said this during a deposition:



Starts @ the 12:20 mark.

It sounds like he was making a settlement offer to the cousins.

They lost an appeal and were ordered to pay the Shermans days before they were killed.

ETA: Removed speculation.

 

[MistyWaters]

I would assume that the appointment in Honey’s case is made with the disclosure to the court that no will has been found, and the existence of said will is in question. It would not survive the appointment of other executors in a valid will.

Possibly. But in the court transcript the judge notes the Certificates appointing a Trustee were filed and issued for both estates by June 29th. However Donovan claims Youdan was requesting the court the next month, in July, for an the appointment of a Trustee of the Estate only for Honey.

Considering Youman didn’t know a Certificate had already been filed in June and that the Estate file was already sealed, he may have believed he was the Sherman family Estate Lawyer because he had completed an older Will for only Barry in the past, but was he really?

“We don’t know who the beneficiaries are, if there is a will,” Sherman estate lawyer Timothy Youdan told a court hearing in July. “We don’t know if there is no will.” To proceed with the administration of the couple’s estate, Youdan filed a document asking for the “appointment of estate trustee without a will in the estate of Honey Sherman.”...”
Where is Honey Sherman’s will? | The Star

Youman is also retracting what Donovan has reported, although Donovan chooses to run with the story, albiet printing the denial. What “facts as known in the public sphere” other then the couple were deceased?
“(In an email interview this week, Youdan said he was referring in court only “to the facts as known in the public sphere.” He said he was not revealing details about the order of death, the status of wills, or whether or not an individual had a will. He did not elaborate.)”

 

[Tighthead]

Possibly. But in the court transcript the judge notes the Certificates appointing a Trustee were filed and issued for both estates by June 29th. However Donovan claims Youdan was requesting the court the next month, in July, for an the appointment of a Trustee of the Estate only for Honey.

Considering Youman didn’t know a Certificate had already been filed in June and that the Estate file was already sealed, he may have believed he was the Sherman family Estate Lawyer but was he really?

“We don’t know who the beneficiaries are, if there is a will,” Sherman estate lawyer Timothy Youdan told a court hearing in July. “We don’t know if there is no will.” To proceed with the administration of the couple’s estate, Youdan filed a document asking for the “appointment of estate trustee without a will in the estate of Honey Sherman.”...”
Where is Honey Sherman’s will? | The Star

Youman is also retracting what Donovan has reported, although Donovan chooses to run with the story, albiet printing the denial. What “facts as known in the public sphere” other then the couple were deceased?
“(In an email interview this week, Youdan said he was referring in court only “to the facts as known in the public sphere.” He said he was not revealing details about the order of death, the status of wills, or whether or not an individual had a will. He did not elaborate.)”

Those are reasons, not a transcript.

The applications were filed in June with the request for an oral hearing. They were not issued in June, they were issued following the hearing.

How could someone believe they are the “estate lawyer”? Who would have retained and instructed them? The mechanics of your suggestion elude me.

As I stated above, the lawyer does not represent the estate. They represent the executors/trustees/administrators.

 

[MistyWaters]

I think you should send this question to Kevin Donovan! Unfortunately, I notice journalists don't publish their email addresses any more.

If you notice how the article is written, it really doesn’t make any declarations at all. The question to the title “Where is Honey Shermans will?” isn’t answered.

 

[MistyWaters]

Those are reasons, not a transcript.

The applications were filed in June with the request for an oral hearing. They were not issued in June, they were issued following the hearing.

How could someone believe they are the “estate lawyer”? Who would have retained and instructed them? The mechanics of your suggestion elude me.

As I stated above, the lawyer does not represent the estate. They represent the executors/trustees/administrators.

I don’t know, that’s why I’m confused, considering Youmans retraction of information as well. Within the transcript it indicates the Certificates were already issued in June, not only the applied for:
BBM
“(9) Following the issuance of my Protective Order, formal applications for the issuance of Certificates to the named trustees were filed in both estates. After payment of the requisite fees, the requested Certificates were issued and the files were retained in my Chambers pending further order on June 29, 2018.
CanLII - 2018 ONSC 4706 (CanLII)

 

[Tighthead]

That’s following the protective order, which means it was after the hearing.

 

[andreww]

During the Winter v. Sherman case, BS said this during a deposition:

View attachment 159808 View attachment 159807

Starts @ the 12:20 mark.

It sounds like he was making a settlement offer to the cousins.

They lost an appeal and were ordered to pay the Shermans days before they were killed.

ETA: Removed speculation.

Would be interesting to know what kind of settlement BS was offering.