Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #10

[andreww]

Deleted

 

[William_60]

Sorry, I missed this, is this something you could link?

Hey Satchie,

The remark was something I heard in the W5 episode from 10 months ago.

The professor makes the summation in a segment late in the broadcast. Roll it with about 3:25 to go...

 

[William_60]

Has anyone else been pondering the possibly-symbolic use of belts?

Money belt.

Pardon me here, but the (murderous) tightening of the money belt on a victim perhaps deemed to care only about money?

If this has been covered previously, forgive me, please.

 

[human]

Personally, I have no interest in pretending I know more about the case than LE. As was stated in the November TPS press conference, they have the evidence and won't release it because they are trying to catch the perps.

I also have zero interest in conspiracy theories, they're pure imagination. You might as well claim the head honchos at TPS have been replaced by cyborgs controlled by the Illuminati, who are intent on using Apotex to implant spy cams in generic drugs.

Wow. Who knew! Lol

 

[MistyWaters]

Greenspin is doing exactly what the family wanted him to do, discredit the notion of murder/suicide and convince TPS to do the same.

Mission accomplished.

What they are doing now is compiling a list of ways that TPS may have erred, and evidence that they overlooked. I believe they are doing this just in case TPS attempts to re-evaluate the case or change their minds about what happened. With Gomes and Price off the case, there is always the possibility that someone new will be assigned to it who wouldn't agree with Gomes' conclusions.

The reward?

Simply put, if the family believes this was murder suicide, they really don't have to worry about paying out the reward do they? What it does do is bring in thousands of tips, possibly from around the world. In the event of TPS trying to change their position on this being a double murder, Greenspan's first question would be "did you follow up on those thousands of tips we sent you?".

Greenspan is well aware that this case will not be fought in court, it will be a case of public opinion, fought in the media. Greenspan is simply loading up on artillery in preparation of a future battle. The beauty of the reward is it gives the family the appearance of being engaged, it over-burdens TPS who admittedly only have one persons working the case, it furthers their narrative in the media, and it stocks them with ammunition for future battles, without ever having to pay a dime. Genius, Greenspan should acknowledge that it was John Ramsey & Co. that came up with that strategy decades ago.

Hasn’t it been established by now that TPS do not walk into a crime seen and go “aha, this is a homicide and that ones a suicide”?

They are trained to recognize “suspicious deaths” and not disturb the bodies whatsoever until the the Coroner and Forensic Palthologists arrive on site, view the crime scene, remove the bodies of the victims and conduct additional medical examinations. It is the responsibility of the Coroner, not TPS to officially determine both the cause and manner of death. Involved in that determination is to medically determine if the specific injuries to the neck area resulted in death in the exact manner the belts were tied to the pool railing. It would be I’m possible for LE to determine that by *looking*.

Therefore it’s also beyond fanciful to expect TPS to “change their position” because their role is to investigate who committed the double homicide. TPS is well beyond the first six weeks following the Sherman deaths a year ago, awaiting official results of the completion of the autopsy by medical professionals.

 

[JDG]

William, pardon me here but you seem to have little interest in what the TPS have stated clearly; that the Shermans were both targeted murders.

Of course, we are not privy to what information they have to base that on but they have a lot more than we 'sleuthers'.

 

[William_60]

William, pardon me here but you seem to have little interest in what the TPS have stated clearly; that the Shermans were both targeted murders.

Of course, we are not privy to what information they have to base that on but they have a lot more than we 'sleuthers'.

Oh I do, and that's the conclusion I share. Have not expressed confidence, but haven't lost it.

I have a certain level of trepidation on being 'all in' on it...I just want to feel 100 per cent certain.

Agree on information. I was thinking today it's very likely reporters also 'know' more than they have shared.

 

[dotr]

Has anyone else been pondering the possibly-symbolic use of belts?

Money belt.

Pardon me here, but the (murderous) tightening of the money belt on a victim perhaps deemed to care only about money?

If this has been covered previously, forgive me, please.

Welcome to Ws William_60!
The significance of the belt has previously been discussed, but this is the first time the idea of a money belt has been mentioned, iirc.interesting.

 

[MistyWaters]

Pick which story you want to believe.

Barry Sherman’s son tells Apotex CEO to leave | The Star
“...Two days before the anniversary of Barry Sherman’s murder, Jonathon Sherman told his father’s longtime partner and friend Jack Kay to leave Apotex, the generic drug company the two men built over 35 years.

Kay, the chief executive officer of Apotex, was sitting in his office last Tuesday when Jonathon Sherman walked in and said his services were no longer required, according to a source with knowledge of what happened.

Kay was told to return to Apotex after business hours to collect his belongings...”

Or, at the age of 78, following Barry’s death Jack Kay fulfilled the role of CEO on a temporary, transitional basis and was successful in completing that objective.

“Upon the successful completion of our transition plan, Jack Kay is no longer with the company,” Berman wrote. “All of us at Apotex wish Jack the best of luck in his future pursuits. Jeff Watson, currently president and COO, is now ready to lead Apotex into the future. Jeff has been with Apotex for 24+ years, working in various capacities including chief commercial officer for North America, and president of global generics. Jeff is well respected within the industry, and we are very proud to have him leading the company.”...”

 

[kiwi50]

I’d be disappointed if Jack Kay was asked to leave the way it was suggested in the Star story.

 

[JDG]

Jacob M. Kay, aka Jack Kay.

Nothing in the business papers yet.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

The timings.

The day TPS announced it was a double-homicide, Apotex announces Jeremy Desai, CEO and friend of BS, was no longer employed there.

Two days before the anniversary of the Shermans’ murders Jack Kay, acting CEO and one of BS closest friends, is ‘fired’?


From the Globe and Mail December 14th, 2018:

It has been a year since his parents were found murdered in their Toronto home. No arrests have been made and the family is offering a $10-million reward to anyone who can help solve the crime. Jonathon Sherman joined Apotex’s four-person board early this year and has emerged as a key decision maker in a restructuring of one the world’s largest generic drug makers. The family owns approximately 90 per cent of Apotex through a trust controlled by Jonathon and sisters Lauren, Alexandra and Kaelen, while the remainder is held by employees. None of the sisters have worked at Apotex.

Along with Jonathon Sherman, brother-in-law Brad Krawczyk and 77-year-old chief executive Jack Kay joined the board last winter. Mr. Kay came out of retirement after the killings. In his new role, Jonathon Sherman has signed off on decisions that fly in the face of his father’s strategy.

Apotex heir: A drug titan’s son steps in at a company in transition

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Star #exclusive Twitter

Kay was working for a pharmaceutical company in Montreal when he was headhunted by Barry Sherman in 1982 to be vice-president of sales and marketing for Apotex, the company Sherman had founded in the mid-1970s. In an interview with the Star last summer, Kay described how he and Sherman hit it off immediately.

“For each of us, it is fair to say we were the brother neither of us had,” he recalled. “That day in Montreal, he said, ‘Jack, come work with me. We will build Apotex and we will make a bit of money and have fun.’”

 

[MistyWaters]

“The Star has made several attempts to interview Jonathon Sherman about his parents and their legacy. However, the Star could not agree to Sherman’s terms — he wanted “sole and absolute discretion” to edit any information about him of which he did not approve.”
Barry Sherman’s son tells Apotex CEO to leave | The Star

I really can’t say that I blame JS considering Donovan’s devotion to anonymous sources.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

“The Star has made several attempts to interview Jonathon Sherman about his parents and their legacy. However, the Star could not agree to Sherman’s terms — he wanted “sole and absolute discretion” to edit any information about him of which he did not approve.”
Barry Sherman’s son tells Apotex CEO to leave | The Star

I really can’t say that I blame JS considering Donovan’s devotion to anonymous sources.

In my experience, that’s a highly unusual request of JS to make of the Star.

It demonstrates a lack of knowing how journalists work and their ethics or possibly like you said a loss of faith in the Star itself.

He can’t control what is being reported or the narrative. He can only control what he says and who he speaks to in the press.

(I hope @ABro chimes in with her opinion.)

 

[Satchie]

Delete -didn't see the new story.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Delete because I responded to Satchie.

 

[Satchie]

Pick which story you want to believe

Having worked for a company, it's always very obvious whether someone left voluntarily and on good terms, or fired/on bad terms.

One involves the opportunity for staff to attend some sort of goodbye, and a series of nice speeches of mutual thanks, plus perhaps a gift.

The bad terms are when someone is escorted abuptly out of the office, and an email is sent out referring to them in the past tense.

 

[Sphinx]

Aha! So you are saying that this is staged to look like a murder / suicide, but what exactly makes you think that it wasn't that? A murder suicide?

There are many things that made me think it was probably a double murder staged to look like a murder/suicide. It has been awhile since I have followed the case, and I may not remember all the details, but it just always seemed to me that there was no obvious motive for Barry to have killed Honey, then himself. From what I could tell, just reading about them, and looking at their pictures, they seemed to be a happy, well adjusted family, who were looking forward to many things in the future, like their vacation in Florida, and a new Grandchild.

Honey had obviously been beaten, and left to lay in her own blood before being hung on display. She may have already been dead while laying beside the pool, having been strangled. It seemed quite plausible to me that the killers tortured her in order to get her to phone Barry, and ask him to come home early. Do we know if her phone records showed any such call to Barry that night ? Was her phone still in the house, or was it missing ? What did Barry's phone records show ? This evidence, like everything else, has not been released to the public, and probably for good reason, if TPS is still really investigating.

I don't think Barry would have wanted them to have been found in such an undignified, ugly death scene. It seems more likely to me that he would have mixed an " elegant, toxic cocktail " for both of them, and they could have just been found in their bed. He certainly had more than enough knowledge and access.

The way their coats were pulled down, and the marks on their wrists, make me think that they were attacked, and killed.
It was mentioned elsewhere on this forum, that before a body is carried, the legs are crossed to make it easier, and I think that is likely why they were left crossed in front of them. It is also possible that there was another meaning to leaving the legs crossed, as has been mentioned here, and long ago I said that I thought hanging was seen as a shameful death in Judaism.

We know they had enemies, especially Barry, and they were extremely rich. They were also involved in politics. All of this could have caused actions which greatly angered some other powerful people. Remember, that Detective Gnomes ( sorry if I have the spelling wrong ) did say to the press the Shermans were targeted, and that it was a double homicide. She was the lead detective on the case, and I doubt very much that she would have said anything like that without evidence to back it up, and it would not be right to release it while they are still trying to bring the killers to justice, because it might prevent them from doing their jobs to the best of their ability. I really hope they do find them, but I have my doubts. IMO

 

[Lexiintoronto]

It was mentioned elsewhere on this forum, that before a body is carried, the legs are crossed to make it easier, and I think that is likely why they were left crossed in front of them

Snipped by me.

I had never heard that possible explanation. It makes perfect sense.