Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #13

[MistyWaters]

I would assume they say that to people to put them at ease. In a case like this, anybody that knew Barry & Honey are suspects until they can actually be cleared. As Kerry had no concrete alibi (most single people wouldn't) I would assume that he will never be completely off the list, but likely LE considered him to be honest and forthcoming in his interview. That said, Kerry was the obvious suspect. I would think that if he was actually involved, that LE would have had him locked up by now. Two years is more than enough time to get enough evidence on someone like him. I have no belief whatsoever that he had anything to do with this.

I suppose the same could be said for any family member who benefited by the Sherman deaths as those closest to the victims are always looked at first by police. But nobody’s been locked up yet and strong evidence to convict is still required against even the most obvious suspects.

It always amazes me how sometimes it takes many years and suddenly it’s announced an ex-spouse has been charged for murder of an ex-partner, even though other facts emerge which make it clear the accused had to have been a prime suspect from day one. Those types of occurrences always remind me there’s no statue of limitations about who must be innocent or guilty, simply because the arrest was not expedient.

In the case of the Sherman murders, the jail door is still wide open.

 

[rickcross]

I suppose the same could be said for any family member who benefited by the Sherman deaths as those closest to the victims are always looked at first by police. But nobody’s been locked up yet and strong evidence to convict is still required against even the most obvious suspects.

It always amazes me how sometimes it takes many years and suddenly it’s announced an ex-spouse has been charged for murder of an ex-partner, even though other facts emerge which make it clear the accused had to have been a prime suspect from day one. Those types of occurrences always remind me there’s no statue of limitations about who must be innocent or guilty, simply because the arrest was not expedient.

In the case of the Sherman murders, the jail door is still wide open.

I think other family members are a different story altogether simply by the amount of money they have. When a normal person commits a crime, like hiring a hit man, its pretty easy to figure out what happened. Just follow the money, a significant withdrawal would be necessary. With one of the family members, there are just so many places to get significant amounts of money, that it could take years to connect the dots. But maybe not. I just don't think KW had anything to do with this, probably because he was so open about his feelings towards Barry. Not many people commit murder, then go on national TV and say they've fantasized about killing that person for years.

 

[MistyWaters]

KW alone received $8 million plus from BS and inherited his biological family’s trust fund. Has KW or his siblings created a memorial or donation in his name for Louis Winter? Did Louis Winter in his lifetime make sizeable charitable donations?

ETA: Corrected spelling.

That’s what I don’t get, unless I missed it. In KW’s eagerness to run to the media to tell the world what a deceptive, cruel character Barry was after the money flow ceased - while he was enjoying the fruits of Barry’s generosity, if he truly believed the financial source was owing to his own birth father, why wasn’t he honouring his father’s name at the time?

It’s all very weird to me, how money can become some people’s driving factor, especially people who make no effort to earn it. The thing is even if Louis hadn’t died so young, he had no obligation to give his children including KW anything, either in life or in death.

IMO the real irony, as no doubt money is involved in some way in instances of anyone wealthy - yet isn’t that the pursuit in (pardon the common but out-of-country reference) the “The American Dream” or what’s sometimes referred to as “living the good life”?

 

[MistyWaters]

I think other family members are a different story altogether simply by the amount of money they have. When a normal person commits a crime, like hiring a hit man, its pretty easy to figure out what happened. Just follow the money, a significant withdrawal would be necessary. With one of the family members, there are just so many places to get significant amounts of money, that it could take years to connect the dots. But maybe not. I just don't think KW had anything to do with this, probably because he was so open about his feelings towards Barry. Not many people commit murder, then go on national TV and say they've fantasized about killing that person for years.

That’s right, not many people go on national TV saying they’ve fantasized about killing anyone. Actually nobody else who I can recall. That’s probably the reason both his sister-in-law and his attorney requested the court require that he undergo a mental health assessment prior to participating in the Ontario Appeal, later dismissed. If he’s since recovered, we don’t know. Although I’m not a expert, I believe that anything he said while in a state of diminished mental capacity can’t be held against him.

MANDEL: Barry Sherman’s cousin Kerry Winter suffered nervous breakdown, sister-in-law tells court

 

[MistyWaters]

In what sense did the appeal to the SCC never occur?

Supreme Court of Canada - SCC Case Information - Docket - 38899

Looks like an attempt to move forward.

Thanks for that, very interesting. I haven’t noticed that filing reported in the media. I notice the application is in the name of KW only so it appears his other siblings have dropped out and he’s now going it alone. So I wonder, does that mean he’s only going after his 5%.

Presumably, the lower courts order of payment of legal fees and repayment of the $8 million dollar loan (if the estate is pursuing) is abated until the Supreme Court Leave to Appeal is heard.

ETA - opps just noticed the “et al”, not KW alone. Well, indeed, details of this Appeal to the Supreme Court would certainly be contained within the sealed Sherman Estate file as well.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

In what sense did the appeal to the SCC never occur?

Supreme Court of Canada - SCC Case Information - Docket - 38899

Looks like an attempt to move forward.

Donovan has a March, 2020 court date for his Supreme Court case about the Estate files. Why is this case dragging on?

I don’t understand legalese- is KW et al submitting incomplete documents? What does that say in layman’s terms?

ETA: KW said in the Daily Mail that he put a lien on Apotex and therefore it cannot be sold. His lawsuit is against the *estate* of *BS*, how could he possibly put a lien on Apotex?

2nd edit:2019 CanLII 101525 (SCC) | CanLII

 

[Tighthead]

Donovan has a March, 2020 court date for his Supreme Court case about the Estate files. Why is this case dragging on?

I don’t understand legalese- is KW et al submitting incomplete documents? What does that say in layman’s terms?

ETA: KW said in the Daily Mail that he put a lien on Apotex and therefore it cannot be sold. His lawsuit is against the *estate* of *BS*, how could he possibly put a lien on Apotex?

2nd edit:2019 CanLII 101525 (SCC) | CanLII

Looks like Winters et al have yet to submit a full application for leave.

The Donovan matter is relatively narrow and straightforward, so it is possible it is getting a quick hearing date.

As for the “lien”, the estate owns shares in the company so it makes sense, just like you would seek security against someone’s house. If he was able to encumber them it is likely that security has lapsed.

 

[MistyWaters]

I notice a Motion for an Extension of Time was also filed. I wonder what has caused the delay. Two hurdles, the SCC granting the extension of time plus the leave for Appeal.


Supreme Court of Canada - Information and resources for self-represented litigants who may wish to apply for leave to appeal - Guide

• If the judgment you are appealing was rendered more than 60 days ago, a motion for an extension of time and an affidavit explaining the reasons for the delay;

 

[human]

You don't know the full story. I know Barry won in court, that doesn't mean that he didn't purposely screw those orphans. Only Barry knows that and he's not talking. KW is upset, and from what I've heard it's more about the memory of his father than it is about money. Was Barry a nice guy? That seems debatable as well. Perhaps if these two guys had had the capacity to sit down and talk about it, things could have been worked out. But money does very weird things to people, and I think this is very evident in Barry Sherman. IMO the promissory note for KWs 8 million is nothing more than a way to keep Kerry under his thumb. Don't cause any problems and you never have to repay. Speak your mind and you are cut off. Same situation likely applied to FDA. In KWs case, Barry could have taken the million he spent on the court case and simply built a monument to Kerry's father outside of Apotex, but something tells me that Barry's ego would never allow for such a display of gratitude to the person who put him on the path to success. I think we can all agree that without Kerry's father, there simply is no Barry Sherman and no Apotex.

So go easy on KW, I suspect he's had a rougher life than you and I could ever imagine.

yes, rough. Living with wealthy adoptive parents and then given millions for houses, cottages, cars and businesses. Bummer.

Kerry should have simply said ,”No”, and not taken any money so he owed Barry nothing. Kerry could have built his own successful life.

 

[dotr]

WARMINGTON: Did billionaire Shermans want to leave wealth to Bill Gates’ charity?
December 19, 2019 8:22 PM EST
"Honey and Barry Sherman were known for giving millions to local charities.
But were they considering leaving their billions, after death, to Bill Gates’ The Giving Pledge?
Several friends close to them say yes. Others say nothing of the sort had been decided.
The issue came up after the British newspaper, The Daily Mail, reported Thursday that shortly before their brutal Dec. 13, 2017 murders in the couple’s Old Colony Rd. mansion, they talked about signing up with The Giving Pledge initiative started by Bill and Melinda Gates of Microsoft fame."

Billionaire couple found 'murdered' discussed pledging their fortune to philanthropy campaign | Daily Mail Online

Kerry Winter, 58,(left) is the estranged cousin of Barry still fighting for his share' of the Apotex fortune. Frank D'Angelo, 60, (right) is a business man in whom Barry invested faith and money and who regarded the late multi billionaire as his best friend

"The Gates part of it has not been talked about in Toronto circles. But Sherman’s cousin Kerry Winter said it was Barry’s wish to pursue something like that.

Winter said he knew about Barry’s wishes and it was an issue in the lawsuit the cousins filed against the Apotex giant.

“It’s nothing new,” said Winter. “He told me that more than once.”

But Barry, said Winter, “never mentioned Gates, The Giving Pledge.”


"And in stark contrast to Winter not only is D'Angelo confident that police will make an arrest, he is confident that they will do so soon and that they have a single suspect - a person who Sherman knew and trusted to the very end - squarely in their sights."

 

[Tobiano8th]

that has always been in the back of my mind. the thought that BS and/or HS (especially) were going to give a large part of their estate to charity.

the winter stuff is hard to judge... i do see KW at some point saying he just wanted BS recognition of his father. not sure if that's credible (maybe yes)...... louis winter wouldn't have built apotex. lots of reasons why not. some having to do with BS (generics corporate value-add is legal, not chemistry), others simply timing/age/etc.

not that F'DA's opinion should be given significant weight, but he seems to rule out KW and siblings.. in fact, his comment narrows things down alot if he is correct.

 

[PostTruth]

Warmington's really milking it. I'm sorry.

 

[nuff]

Warmington's really milking it. I'm sorry.

This sentence from his article seems like the ultimate irony: “It’s more gossip that newspapers are doing with this case to sell copies,” said a person close to the four Sherman children. “That they were generous is not new ..."

 

[rickcross]

yes, rough. Living with wealthy adoptive parents and then given millions for houses, cottages, cars and businesses. Bummer.

Kerry should have simply said ,”No”, and not taken any money so he owed Barry nothing. Kerry could have built his own successful life.

One da

yes, rough. Living with wealthy adoptive parents and then given millions for houses, cottages, cars and businesses. Bummer.

Kerry should have simply said ,”No”, and not taken any money so he owed Barry nothing. Kerry could have built his own successful life.

One day you might realize that money and cars aren't what makes you happy. And nice when you are trying to make a point you say "and then given millions for houses, cottages...". You know those were loans right? In reality Barry gave him nothing because he held a marker for all of it.

 

[Satchie]

Warmington's really milking it. I'm sorry.

I agree. I mean, that's his schtick. He's the first to admit, he's not an investigative reporter like KD, he's a columnist who doesn't hold his imaginery horses.

 

[William_60]

One da

One day you might realize that money and cars aren't what makes you happy. And nice when you are trying to make a point you say "and then given millions for houses, cottages...". You know those were loans right? In reality Barry gave him nothing because he held a marker for all of it.

Not quite.

Barry Sherman gave KW a loan KW would not have secured anywhere else.

This money was earmarked to build a business, to build a future - and make more money - allowing the loan to be paid back over time.

A marker injects a heavy dose of reality; it promotes if not demands diligence in the handling of it; a degree of measuring risk and restraint that can only come from a loan, as opposed to a gift.

Even as a gift, the challenges to use it to successfully build a business would still be there.

If the loan was viewed as some kind of insult, if the terms were viewed as harsh, then clearly it should have been rejected.

 

[human]

One da

One day you might realize that money and cars aren't what makes you happy. And nice when you are trying to make a point you say "and then given millions for houses, cottages...". You know those were loans right? In reality Barry gave him nothing because he held a marker for all of it.

yes, loans that Barry did not seem to be interested in getting back until Kerry dissed him.

If the money was not what Kerry wanted, why did he take it? Why is he suing for “his share”? That ‘s a lot of effort for something that matters not.

I sure wouldn’t expend effort on something that I felt would not make me happier

 

[Satchie]

KW said in the Daily Mail that he put a lien on Apotex and therefore it cannot be sold. His lawsuit is against the *estate* of *BS*, how could he possibly put a lien on Apotex?

I'm not a lawyer, but I think that filing anything other than a construction lien requires a court order. I don't believe individuals can just file liens against other people's property willy nilly.

 

[Satchie]

yes, loans that Barry did not seem to be interested in getting back until Kerry dissed him.

If the money was not what Kerry wanted, why did he take it? Why is he suing for “his share”? That ‘s a lot of effort for something that matters not.

I sure wouldn’t expend effort on something that I felt would not make me happier

You're one of the wise ones, I think. Just in general, people who never had money, and are unhappy, often believe money will make them happy.

The other issue is debt. People don't always anticipate how very unhappy they'll feel, if they owe someone a lot of money.

Edited to add: banks, student loan agencies, etc, know better than to loan someone more money than the person can ever pay back. I don't think BS was doing anyone any favours by frequently 'loaning' so much money without security to back it up.

 

[Tighthead]

I'm not a lawyer, but I think that filing anything other than a construction lien requires a court order. I don't believe individuals can just file liens against other people's property willy nilly.

It is possible that he got a court order restricting the transfer of the shares, and uses the term lien in the colloquial sense. I’m not sure what the threshold to get security like that would be.

Maritime liens can be filed without an order, but that is a whole separate world of law.

Lien is one of those legal words that gets thrown around liberally.