Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #14

[casesensitive]

How do you know Elise stern was showing the house that day? I recall it was an an associate in Judi Gottlieb’s office.

This information is in Kevin Donovan's book.

 

[nuff]

I’ll be optimistic, I think the PI team backing out of the picture was a significant event and the Crown was soon ready to lay charges. But then came COVID-19 throwing everything into limbo. The implication of the Jordan Decision and the impact to the huge backlog of cases in Ontario first must be clarified otherwise the Crown risks homicide charges being tossed if the trial can’t be completed within 30 months.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stefanovich-jordan-decision-covid19-cases-delay-1.5638893
“......The Supreme Court of Canada's 2016 Jordan decision set hard limits on the amount of time that can pass between the laying of charges and the anticipated end of a trial — 18 months in provincial court and 30 months in superior court.

The Supreme Court of Canada's 2016 Jordan decision set hard limits on the amount of time that can pass between the laying of charges and the anticipated end of a trial — 18 months in provincial court and 30 months in superior court.

That ruling took into account the possibility of delays caused by illnesses and exceptional events — but there is no federal law outlining how those exceptions should be applied.

Lametti said that if excessive delays caused by pandemic restrictions on courthouse operations lead to confusion over how Jordan should be interpreted, he's prepared to introduce legislation to clarify how the benchmark should be applied in specific circumstances.

"We're prepared to take measures to make sure that the court system doesn't get overwhelmed," he said. "If we get to a situation where we need to legislate, we'll consider it."........

.....But the provincial and federal governments still have an obligation under Jordan to invest enough resources in the court system to get trials moving again, he said.

If they don't, and if the world has to live with eruptions of COVID-19 over the coming decade, Gottardi said the Jordan framework could come into play.....

......Provinces have been holding trials by judge alone — in part through video conferencing — but have gotten through just a fraction of the docket since March.

In Ontario alone, the Criminal Lawyers' Association estimates the backlog of delayed court cases now runs to 30,000.

Lametti hasn't announced any new funding for the courts. Justice Canada said resources are being discussed with the provinces and territories, but the department has not received a formal request for more money.

New federal health and safety guidelines are being put in place by courts across the country, which should allow full jury trials to restart in most jurisdictions this fall.....”

If TPS and the Crown had all their evidence lined up, I don't believe the Jordan decision would inhibit the Crown from charging the person(s). That's a big "if", and my guess is they're not close to that point - and may never be.

 

[JDG]

With the courts shut, its all a moot point anyway.

I think the crown would wait at this point, before arresting anyone.

With COVID, there could be quite a delay in resuming any proceedings. IMO

 

[MistyWaters]

If TPS and the Crown had all their evidence lined up, I don't believe the Jordan decision would inhibit the Crown from charging the person(s). That's a big "if", and my guess is they're not close to that point - and may never be.

This is a made-in-Canada situation that definitely must be resolved as it has the implication of impacting every outstanding criminal case. Until then it makes sense to me the Crown is not rushing to add even more trials to an already overburdened system.

Besides that, for the past six months everything has slowed to a crawl, if not shut down, due to COVID-19 so I’d be very surprised if police investigative units were operating as normal. In Canada, over the past six months I haven’t noticed any new homicide charges being announced involving lengthy investigations for murders committed in past years.

JMO

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stefanovich-jordan-decision-covid19-cases-delay-1.5638893
“There's a lot of confusion right now," said Mark Farrant, the founder of the national non-profit Canadian Juries Commission. "We need a decision, a definitive decision."

Provinces have been holding trials by judge alone — in part through video conferencing — but have gotten through just a fraction of the docket since March.

In Ontario alone, the Criminal Lawyers' Association estimates the backlog of delayed court cases now runs to 30,000.

Lametti hasn't announced any new funding for the courts. Justice Canada said resources are being discussed with the provinces and territories, but the department has not received a formal request for more money.

New federal health and safety guidelines are being put in place by courts across the country, which should allow full jury trials to restart in most jurisdictions this fall.

An 'enormous challenge'
Farrant said he fears those restrictions could put a strain on an already overburdened system, potentially dragging out trials.

"If the Jordan ruling does apply, it's going to mean there will be an enormous volume of cases suddenly roaring back into court," Farrant said.

"It's going to be an enormous challenge.".....”

 

[dotr]

This link from the wayback machine (published days prior to murder, article was then pulled from Toronto Life mag.) was posted by Wondergirl on this thread, which also includes some other interesting posts circa 2017. rbbm.
Ws thread..
Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #2

By Steve Kupferman | December 14, 2017 AT 11:54 am
Pharma titan Barry Sherman is selling his modern North York mansion
''Barry Sherman, founder and chairman of the generic drug manufacturer Apotex, is one of Canada’s richest people, with a Forbes-estimated fortune of about $3 billion. In 1985, he and his wife, Honey, bought a parcel of land in North York, at 50 Old Colony Road, near Bayview and the 401, for $390,000. The home they built on that land, a fabulously ’80s-looking six-bedroom mansion, is now on the market for $6,988,000.

Image from Google Earth
The house is a poured-concrete colossus, designed by architect Jack Winston, with 12,440 square feet of living space. It has indoor and outdoor pools, a sauna and a tennis court. There’s a grand entrance hall with a chandelier and a curved staircase. Glass block, a translucent building material popular in the ’80s and ’90s that isn’t deployed as much in newer construction, is used liberally throughout the house to introduce light into private spaces, including the opulent master bathroom. Sherman’s agent, Elise Stern, didn’t respond to requests for comment on the sale.

Sherman might be selling to move a few blocks south. A large home in Forest Hill, located on a corner lot behind a privacy screen of tall trees, sold late last year, and is now registered in Honey Sherman’s name.''

 

[dotr]

Wondering if the agent got over the fright enough to continue working in real estate, was this the first time the clients had a tour of the home?
Since they were apparently "angry", did they feel the "staged" scene was somehow meant for them to discover, even though they were not "really interested in the pool ”?
speculation, imo.
Oct 26 2018 rbbm.
Agent who found Shermans dead thought bodies were Halloween prank | Toronto Sun
“This is a joke, something left over from Halloween,” the agent told CBC News, asking the network not to identify him.

It wasn’t until a “couple of days later” that he learned the high-fliers were dead. He remains frightened since the professional killers have not been caught.

“It was scary,” he said.

The agent said he and his Chinese clients were surprised by the grim scene but didn’t believe the bodies were real.''

''According to the agent, his wealthy clients were less than pleased by the macabre sight that greeted them on Old Colony Rd.

“They were angry,” the agent said, adding the couple were superstitious and feared the sick scene was a sinister omen.''

“My clients weren’t really interested in the pool,” the agent said, adding they had a peek anyway.''

 

[MistyWaters]

Wondering if the agent got over the fright enough to continue working in real estate, was this the first time the clients had a tour of the home?
Since they were apparently "angry", did they feel the "staged" scene was somehow meant for them to discover, even though they were not "really interested in the pool ”?
speculation, imo.
Oct 26 2018 rbbm.
Agent who found Shermans dead thought bodies were Halloween prank | Toronto Sun
“This is a joke, something left over from Halloween,” the agent told CBC News, asking the network not to identify him.

It wasn’t until a “couple of days later” that he learned the high-fliers were dead. He remains frightened since the professional killers have not been caught.

“It was scary,” he said.

The agent said he and his Chinese clients were surprised by the grim scene but didn’t believe the bodies were real.''

''According to the agent, his wealthy clients were less than pleased by the macabre sight that greeted them on Old Colony Rd.

“They were angry,” the agent said, adding the couple were superstitious and feared the sick scene was a sinister omen.''

“My clients weren’t really interested in the pool,” the agent said, adding they had a peek anyway.''

“They were angry,” the agent said, adding the couple were superstitious and feared the sick scene was a sinister omen.''

Just guessing but knowing a little about the superstitions of some in that ethnic group, perhaps the cause of the anger was being shown a home with what they initially believed must’ve been a leftover macabre and gruesome Halloween scene, which in turn posed a sinister omen to them as well?

In that belief, Halloween was long past in October and prior to the new listing, I think anyone would become angry if they thought a realtor was intentionally showing a home with something such as that left over from a month and a half ago, knowing full well it would shock. Even if it had been a leftover macabre Halloween scene, I’d think that would’ve definitely discouraged any potential sale.

But we don’t know when this viewing was scheduled. Because the cleaning woman and plant waterer were working there that day, it would appear they were unaware. Yet the house cleaner let them in because the listing realtor was a bit late. That makes me wonder about the situation in general regarding hired help allowing others access to wander around inside the home by anybody ringing the doorbell with a stated reason (realtor, repairman, home inspection etc) when the Shermans weren’t home.

Had the discovery of the bodies not occurred that day upon the real estate showing, IIRC H had intended to be making latkes for a dinner at her daughters the following day. Considering the realtors and clients were so shocked and horrified upon making the discovery, if anything good can be made out of that thank goodness it wasn’t a close Sherman relative. JMO

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Remember, the listing agent secured the listing, put a lockbox on the front door that by many accounts is not secure, and then within a couple of weeks she promptly took off to Florida.

JG—why would the family use her as an agent again after that?

 

[ldlager]

JG—why would the family use her as an agent again after that?

exactly- It begs the question, why would they?

 

[ldlager]

As time passes media reports get deleted or overwritten. This is the only report I can find regarding interviewing people who had access to the home. But I’m sure I recall a specific number pertaining to the real estate listing mentioned somewhere as well.

Police investigation into Sherman double murder focuses on realtor’s 'lock box' | National Post
“In answering a reporter’s question, she confirmed that “we have that list” of anyone who gained entry to the Old Colony Road home in North Toronto, which was for sale, via the lock box.

“Anybody who had access to that home in the last weeks and months leading up to that weekend, those days — important to us,” Gomes said.

Lock boxes are often used by agents for periods when either the sellers are away or unavailable for showings, or when the agents themselves can’t be there for appointments. Keys to the home are left in the lock box, which is usually affixed to the door handle. Agents can then get the lock box code from the selling agent’s office, and take their clients through....”

Via the lockbox only. That’s because you theoretically at least need to have a realtor present to unlock the lockbox. Note AFAIK that tps did not indicate that they had a listing of all people who had accessed the house. If there was an open house for the public as some have adamantly maintained here, there is a good likelihood that tps does not have a complete listing of those visitors. Realtors often ask public visitors to sign in at an open house, but I know from personal experience that this is hit and miss. Plus a visitor could just enter fictitious information.

 

[JDG]

IIRC a neighbour went across to see the house during the Open House.

She quite liked Honey as an acquaintance and was interested in viewing the home.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Imminent arrest of the multiple murderers.....NOT!
LMAO

No, no arrests yet.

Have you heard anything more from the retired cop you kept bumping into?

 

[dotr]

There was a number of bizarre double murder/suicides of elderly couples in the UK, which will be re-investigated as murder/murders.
The death scenes were strange and horrific, obviously reminded of the Shermans.
FWIW..
Aug 23 2020 rbbm.
Unsolved murder-suicides in northwest England could be work of serial killer
''In both cases, the husbands had been thought to have murdered their wives before killing themselves. But after re-examining the cases using modern techniques, the report finds both cases were likely to be double murders, The Sunday Times reports.

Similarities in the method of killing and the positioning of the bodies are signs of “signature behaviour” of a repeat killer, argues Stephanie Davies, coroner’s officer for Cheshire, in the report.

UK - Serial killer preying on elderly couples, could be on the loose since 1990's

 

[Lexiintoronto]

No, no arrests yet.

Have you heard anything more from the retired cop you kept bumping into?

Sorry to quote myself. Kerry, does the retired cop’s first name begin with the letter S?

 

[rickcross]

exactly- It begs the question, why would they?

Agents use lock boxes all the time. They used one on a home I sold recently. Are they 100% secure? Obviously not, but neither are doors. Criminals would not waste time and effort to open a lock box when all it takes is one good swift kick to open most doors.

 

[WINDSOR]

Let us be sensible about locks and other types of security devices. With a very few exceptions, if a criminal wants in, he will get in, regardless of security features.

 

[Peppurr]

This link from the wayback machine (published days prior to murder, article was then pulled from Toronto Life mag.) was posted by Wondergirl on this thread, which also includes some other interesting posts circa 2017. rbbm.
Ws thread..
Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #2

By Steve Kupferman | December 14, 2017 AT 11:54 am
Pharma titan Barry Sherman is selling his modern North York mansion
''Barry Sherman, founder and chairman of the generic drug manufacturer Apotex, is one of Canada’s richest people, with a Forbes-estimated fortune of about $3 billion. In 1985, he and his wife, Honey, bought a parcel of land in North York, at 50 Old Colony Road, near Bayview and the 401, for $390,000. The home they built on that land, a fabulously ’80s-looking six-bedroom mansion, is now on the market for $6,988,000.

Image from Google Earth
The house is a poured-concrete colossus, designed by architect Jack Winston, with 12,440 square feet of living space. It has indoor and outdoor pools, a sauna and a tennis court. There’s a grand entrance hall with a chandelier and a curved staircase. Glass block, a translucent building material popular in the ’80s and ’90s that isn’t deployed as much in newer construction, is used liberally throughout the house to introduce light into private spaces, including the opulent master bathroom. Sherman’s agent, Elise Stern, didn’t respond to requests for comment on the sale.

Sherman might be selling to move a few blocks south. A large home in Forest Hill, located on a corner lot behind a privacy screen of tall trees, sold late last year, and is now registered in Honey Sherman’s name.''

Good luck in selling

 

[dotr]

Good luck in selling

Welcome to Ws Peppurr!
Since the home where the murders happened has been torn down, assuming you mean the home purchased by Honey Sherman in Forest Hills?

 

[Peppurr]

Yeah - good luck to selling that house to anyone. They may have to raise i I put my house in Vancouver on the market a few yrs ago. Main people purchasing were Chinese with lots of money.. They have a lot of superstitions like the direction the house faces; The lucky #8 in the address and they wanted to know if anyone died in the house.

Welcome to Ws Peppurr!
Since the home where the murders happened has been torn down, assuming you mean the home purchased by Honey Sherman in Forest Hills?

 

[dotr]

Yeah - good luck to selling that house to anyone. They may have to raise i I put my house in Vancouver on the market a few yrs ago. Main people purchasing were Chinese with lots of money.. They have a lot of superstitions like the direction the house faces; The lucky #8 in the address and they wanted to know if anyone died in the house.

True, understanding the "creepy Halloween display" angering the potential buyers of the Sherman home better now..
Tradition Scares Off Some Buyers : Bad luck feared by Chinese who avoid buying homes during 'Ghost Month' period.
“Ghost Month,” which started as a festival in ancient China, is something like Halloween, he explained. “Superstitious people believe it’s when a devil in hell opens the door for all the ghosts to come out.”
“It’s when the ghosts go out to find their replacements, so the ghosts can be reborn. That’s why people stay away from many activities.”

https://www.farmersalmanac.com/home-buying-superstitions-17918''According to the Chinese philosophical system of feng shui, a house must have windows the east side to face the sunrise, or it’s bad luck.

• The Chinese also believe that moving into a home that sits on a curved road or faces a “T” intersection will bring bad fortune.
• Also in China, home buyers are warned to avoid homes with the number four in the address, because the word for “four” sounds like the word for death in both Cantonese and Mandarin.

Buying It

• Look for homes that have the number eight somewhere in the list price. In China, this is said to be good luck.''