Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #15

[casesensitive]

Then is it fair to say it’s common? My earlier post was reflecting on parents of adult children in general. I refuse to believe we’re all at risk if it’s as simple as parents are murdered by adult children to benefit financially. I think there’s always psychopathy involved as well. But in this case little or nothing of the longterm family dynamics has been mentioned.

Of course it isn't common...it is very rare that kids kill their parents, but the main motive seems to be for financial gain. That was the point of my original post. Not sure how you took that to think I meant that all parents are at risk to be killed for their money.

 

[casesensitive]

Here is a small sample of people who killed their parents to get their inheritances. There are many more.

Dellen Millard:
Dellen Millard killed father as he slept and inherited millions

Dellen Millard killed father as he slept and inherited millions - BBC News
The 2012 death was originally ruled a suicide, but Dellen Millard shot his sleeping dad in the eye.
www.bbc.com

Five children who murdered their parents for the inheritance:

5 Children Who Murdered Their Parents for the Inheritance

Rich kids who killed their parents:
ttps://gizmodo.com/rich-kids-who-killed-their-parents-2-if-at-first-you-d-1743074610

Rich Kids Who Killed Their Parents #2: If At First You Don't Succeed, Get a Gun

Ungrateful son who killed his parents:
Man who killed parents for £230,000 estate was 'ultimate ungrateful son'
Prosecutor: Son killed Okla. family for inheritance

Kid who killed his family for inheritance:
Man guilty of killing his family for inheritance

Man guilty of killing his family for inheritance:
cnews.com/id/wbna18850396
Man guilty of killing his family for inheritance

 

[HereToday25]

There was a headline murder here on the west coast where a son hired two of his school friends to kill his mother and grandmother for the inheritance. One of the friends is just getting day parole now Darren Huenemann, the ‘mastermind’ of 1992 double murder in Tsawwassen denied parole
B.C. man convicted in notorious 1990 double murder granted day parole | Vancouver Sun

 

[HereToday25]

Here's another west coast one I just remembered where the family was killed for inheritance https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/rafay-and-burns-guilty-of-murder-1.473248

 

[nuff]

That is also an interesting point - , that "Jonathon says it may be a “confidence” issue with him — he does not like doing things on his own.''

JS's performance - and I use that word deliberately - at the memorial service, including his shock tactic of uttering an expletive at the outset, was not that of a man lacking confidence. Good judgement, yes; confidence, no.

 

[ldlager]

Then is it fair to say it’s common? My earlier post was reflecting on parents of adult children in general. I refuse to believe we’re all at risk if it’s as simple as parents are murdered by adult children to benefit financially. I think there’s always psychopathy involved as well. But in this case little or nothing of the longterm family dynamics has been mentioned.

Not to speak for JDG, but I think when JDG wrote “ I don’t think it’s rare enough” he/she meant that he/she wishes that it never happens, that even once is too frequent. Jmo

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I suspect that JS's insistence on AP being present in all of JS's meetings with BS was due to the dysfunctional relationship that had always existed between father and son. I think JS was uncomfortable and intimidated while alone in his father's presence.

I think JS sought his father's approval and validation - but also feared his father's intellect and judgement. I suspect that JS was not recognized as a separate person or as a unique adult individual by BS, beginning in childhood. There are terms in psychology that describe this kind of dysfunctional parent-child relationship.

I suspect that JS felt he'd never been considered good enough by his father in the past, and knew that he'd never be considered good enough by his father in the future. Whether BS intended to do so or not, he made that all but impossible. That's just who he was - and it was never going to change. In that respect (and in that respect only) I sympathize with JS.

Jmo

He did exactly, what would have disappointed his very busy father: only holding his hands outstretched for more dollars all the time, but not in a way, FDA did for example, but like a spoiled brat, who thinks, he would deserve it before all others (sisters/relatives/friends). Naughty, brazen - something like that. With no respect for his parents, it seems (as he had fights with his mother also). MOO

 

[MistyWaters]

Not to speak for JDG, but I think when JDG wrote “ I don’t think it’s rare enough” he/she meant that he/she wishes that it never happens, that even once is too frequent. Jmo

I think I’ve lost the point of debate. Rare doesn’t mean never, rare is synonymous to uncommon. Adult children who murder their parents to benefit financially without any underlying mental health issues is not “normal”. If anybody thinks otherwise - to my earlier point, any of us with adult children should be very concerned.

If JS is the perpetrator in this case, I’d be curious initially why the siblings all came together to offer a reward of $10 million making it appear the killer was outside the family and even they didn’t suspect him.

 

[ldlager]

I think I’ve lost the point of debate. Rare doesn’t mean never, rare is synonymous to uncommon. Adult children who murder their parents to benefit financially without any underlying mental health issues is not “normal”. If anybody thinks otherwise - to my earlier point, any of us with adult children should be very concerned.

If JS is the perpetrator in this case, I’d be curious initially why the siblings all came together to offer a reward of $10 million making it appear the killer was outside the family and even they didn’t suspect him.

Perhaps after "initially", the siblings became aware of certain things (that the public may not even know about) or heard JS say certain things or saw him behave in a certain way that lead one or more of them to come to suspect his involvement. Speculation on my part.

 

[Rush4087]

JS's performance - and I use that word deliberately - at the memorial service, including his shock tactic of uttering an expletive at the outset, was not that of a man lacking confidence. Good judgement, yes; confidence, no.

Why should he lack confidence at the funeral? BS was dead. It was probably particularly important to JS to appear to (roar). To me it came off as quite childlike and revealed the existence of exactly the kind of relationship I suspected had existed (again, that's all just my opinion).

I think the (planned, imo) use of expletive was just the kind of thing somebody lacking in confidence would do to try to convince the audience of the opposite, but that's jmo.

I'm not saying "JS couldn't have done it because he was intimidated by his father" - because JS is probably in my top 3 or 4 personal POI's. Just saying that if he did do it, he probably brought along a surrogate to do it for him (or to help) - just like he brought AP along to all those meetings with BS. And by surrogate, I don't mean a hired professional assassin. Imo the posing of the bodies reveals a personal animus that a hitman would not have possessed. That's jmo.

 

[MistyWaters]

Perhaps after "initially", the siblings became aware of certain things (that the public may not even know about) or heard JS say certain things or saw him behave in a certain way that lead one or more of them to come to suspect his involvement. Speculation on my part.

Within a family, if one child attempted to initiate a group effort to lead them all toward declaring a parent mentally incompetent - the others knowing full well the parent suffered no mental capacity issues whatsoever - then suddenly the parent is found murdered, that should normally be an immediate huge red flag to direct suspicion.

Flip back the calendar three years and we have them adamantly insisting a murder occurred as opposed to m/s, hiring a PI team to conduct a murder investigation, offering a $10 million dollar reward - all that. So if the siblings saw JS as a possible suspect at the onset in addition to elements of greed, what’s perplexing is why all that? I’d expect total silence while the other siblings shared their suspicions with LE.

The Millard case, we know by LE interviews later released DM intentionally steered LE towards suicide - case closed - by suggesting he knew something was troubling his father. Here we have the opposite, JS wide open to a murder occurring, even offering names of people who might’ve had reason to hurt his parents.

JMO...there’s far more to this story, it’s not an open and shut case - aside from the fact nobody’s been charged yet.

 

[ldlager]

Within a family, if one child attempted to initiate a group effort to lead them all toward declaring a parent mentally incompetent - the others knowing full well the parent suffered no mental capacity issues whatsoever - then suddenly the parent is found murdered, that should normally be an immediate huge red flag to direct suspicion.

Flip back the calendar three years and we have them adamantly insisting a murder occurred as opposed to m/s, hiring a PI team to conduct a murder investigation, offering a $10 million dollar reward - all that. So if the siblings saw JS as a possible suspect at the onset in addition to elements of greed, what’s perplexing is why all that? I’d expect total silence while the other siblings shared their suspicions with LE.

The Millard case, we know by LE interviews later released DM intentionally steered LE towards suicide - case closed - by suggesting he knew something was troubling his father. Here we have the opposite, JS wide open to a murder occurring, even offering names of people who might’ve had reason to hurt his parents.

JMO...there’s far more to this story, it’s not an open and shut case - aside from the fact nobody’s been charged yet.

As I said, perhaps the siblings did not view him as a suspect immediately from the outset. Maybe those thoughts/ideas came later. Who know what could have triggered it?

We don't know if JS was truly in favour of hiring Greenspan. Perhaps he was, or maybe he was not. But what possible explanation could he possibly give to argue against his 3 sisters, who wanted to hire experts to find out more information? It wasn't as if money was an issue, they could have hired anyone they wanted. We have read that Alex initiated this process, and maybe at that time they/she did not suspect JS. Wouldn't it have made JS look more guilty or suspicious in the eyes of his family if he argued against hiring experts to assist in the investigation, or to offer a reward? IMO it would have looked pretty strange if JS had said to his siblings, "no, don't bother hiring anyone to try and prove anything or to did deeper, lets just leave our parents legacy to be whatever the TPS decides it to be"

But I agree with you, there is much we don't know, and JS, while many might suspect him, hasn't been charged with anything even after more than 3 years of police investigation.
JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

As I said, perhaps the siblings did not view him as a suspect immediately from the outset. Maybe those thoughts/ideas came later. Who know what could have triggered it?

We don't know if JS was truly in favour of hiring Greenspan. Perhaps he was, or maybe he was not. But what possible explanation could he possibly give to argue against his 3 sisters, who wanted to hire experts to find out more information? It wasn't as if money was an issue, they could have hired anyone they wanted. We have read that Alex initiated this process, and maybe at that time they/she did not suspect JS. Wouldn't it have made JS look more guilty or suspicious in the eyes of his family if he argued against hiring experts to assist in the investigation, or to offer a reward? IMO it would have looked pretty strange if JS had said to his siblings, "no, don't bother hiring anyone to try and prove anything or to did deeper, lets just leave our parents legacy to be whatever the TPS decides it to be"

JMO

As JS allegedly had reason to openly question the mental capacity of his father in the past, no I don’t think it’d have roused suspicion if he’d been less than adamant over a double murder occurring for that very same reason. . I recall our own VI - KW - posted his doubts about Barry’s mental state here in support of m/s having occurred as well.

If the siblings only became suspicious of JS after the murders or why Rosen was required to be hired by AK to fire the Greenspan PI team is another mystery but KD never expanded on that.

 

[MistyWaters]

Earlier I’d posted regarding an unusual but similar resemblance (ie pattern) of allegations or circumstances shared by both KW and JS as time goes on although JS is the present focus. Uncanny coincidence?

- selfish entitlement to the Apotex fortune *
- allegations about Barry’s deteriorating state of mental health **
- personal psych issues ***
- “father”****
- maybe there’s more but I didn’t buy KDs book.

So....are we talking about JS or KW? It’s resembling the same song, different verse. If this was just a work of fiction, it would probably constitute a copyright violation!

* leading the cousins’ lawsuit for 20%
** as was posted on this thread by KW, VI
*** alleged by SIL after media blitz by KW.
****”Barry was like a father to me” quote -

****ADDING ****
- highly incriminating media interviews - KW appearing on 5th Estate, JS by KD (written) both declaring they were not responsible for the Sherman murders but at the same time raising questions.
- both scenarios now involve demands for repayment of money to Barry as a possible motive, the $300k legal fees for the failed lawsuit and the $7 million dollar promissory note earlier signed by KW, and for JS, the $50 million loan repayment.

JMO

 

[ThaiBali]

Flip back the calendar three years and we have them adamantly insisting a murder occurred as opposed to m/s, hiring a PI team to conduct a murder investigation, offering a $10 million dollar reward - all that. So if the siblings saw JS as a possible suspect at the onset in addition to elements of greed, what’s perplexing is why all that?

The Millard case, we know by LE interviews later released DM intentionally steered LE towards suicide - case closed - by suggesting he knew something was troubling his father. Here we have the opposite, JS wide open to a murder occurring, even offering names of people who might’ve had reason to hurt his parents.

JMO...there’s far more to this story, it’s not an open and shut case - aside from the fact nobody’s been charged yet.

I believe the $10 million reward was offered by JS knowing that it wouldn't be claimed. It was a diversion for him and the siblings were beginning to think the same. imo

 

[MistyWaters]

I believe the $10 million reward was offered by JS knowing that it wouldn't be claimed. It was a diversion for him and the siblings were beginning to think the same. imo

Why do you think nobody would be able to collect the reward if in fact JS was charged and convicted as a result of tips provided? I noticed no limitations mentioned and it was offered by the family, not solely by JS.

 

[deugirtni]

Perhaps after "initially", the siblings became aware of certain things (that the public may not even know about) or heard JS say certain things or saw him behave in a certain way that lead one or more of them to come to suspect his involvement. Speculation on my part.

I get the impression that something may have come to light during the private investigation, hence AS's going as far as to hire a separate lawyer to ask Greenspan to end the investigation and hand over all the data to TPS. It seems the data submitted to TPS from the PI team prior to that, may have been missing information. I'm assuming it must not have been without debate to end the private investigation if AS felt she needed to hire her own lawyer to make it happen.

"While he, his sister Alex and her husband Brad were allied at the start of the private probe — having regular meetings together with Greenspan and private detective Tom Klatt — Jonathon says that at some point, Alex started thinking he was somehow involved in the murders. Eventually, she hired criminal lawyer John Rosen to push Greenspan to end his probe and give everything it had collected to the police. That happened in late 2019 and Toronto police say they are still going over 20 gigabytes of information compiled by the private investigators."
Barry Sherman’s son says his father asked him to repay tens of millions of dollars, two weeks before murders, but Barry was ‘all in’ with son’s business - Today News Post
-----
Another revelation in Yim's affidavit relates to the private investigation led by criminal defence lawyer Brian Greenspan and private detective Tom Klatt. According to Yim, some of the information Greenspan and Klatt's team have provided is short on details.

"Some of the tips (provided by Greenspan's team) appear to be incomplete or missing and required further follow up with the private investigators," Yim says in his affidavit. "It is also my understanding that the private investigators will be providing the Toronto Police Service with further disclosure in the near future. The information received from the private investigators will be reviewed in conjunction with the evidence that the Toronto Police Service has collected in this investigation thus far."
Barry and Honey Sherman murder probe receives 'significant contribution' from Toronto Police intelligence squad, court records reveal
-----
During the Star’s cross-examination of Det. Const. Yim last week, the Star learned the status of information gleaned by the Sherman family’s own private investigation into the murders. The full file — an electronic file containing 20 gigabytes of information — was turned over to the Toronto police last August, eight months after the private investigation ended. Yim said police are continuing to go through the information, which includes tips that came to the Sherman tipline in response to the Sherman family posting a $10 million reward. Yim said police are trying to determine the “fullness and completeness” of the information.

Yim said police are trying to match the private detective’s information with information they already have, trying to determine what, if any, of the tips are credible. He anticipates it will take several more months to finish this process.
Homicide detectives have a ‘person of interest’ in the Barry and Honey Sherman murder investigation | Métis Nation Saskatchewan Business Magazine | Sask Métis News | Métis Nation Entrepreneurs

 

[WINDSOR]

If JS objected to the family hiring the Greenspan team, he would have probably aroused his siblings suspisions even more. His behavior was normal for a grieving son who was acting innocent.

I have to believe there is some evidence the TPS is not revealing, likely video of vehicles near the Sherman house on Old Colony on the night of the murder.

We know approximately when Honey and Barry arrived home that evening.
The questions I would like to ask:
=When did the last staff member of the Sherman's leave the house?
=Was there anybody else present in the house when the last staff member left?
=Did anybody arrive at the house after the last staff member left?
=The perpetrator(s) had to enter the Sherman house sometime that day or evening and leave after.

These perps either walked or drove to the house. If they drove, it likely was in a non-descript or disguised vehicle. Since we have some video of the day after the crime, likely there is also video on the day of the crime. Now the video may be such that it cannot identify who the perps were, (disguises?) and that is why charges have not been laid yet.

When JS showed KD the photo of his hand and the time stamp, that triggered a feeling that JS needed an alibi. Why would he need an alibi to prove he was not there that night?

Can LE identfy somebody's location by cell-phone data?
I would be curious to know locations of JS's phone that night. That would be a better alibi than the time stamp photo.

 

[Kerry Winter]

Since this is a forum to express views, thoughts and theories re. death of B+H Sherman, l’d like to state the following:

*KD had strongly suggested in his book JS’s “involvement” in the targeted murders of his dad and mom.

*After 3 yrs he invites Donovan to his cottage for a 5 hr sit down without legal counsel.

*JS goes on to defend his possible involvement.

*Openly talks about his fondness for guns.

*Mentions, without reservation that Alex, his sister is worried he’s going to pull out a gun and shoot her in public. That she is convinced Jonathon’s behind it.

~ You’d have to believe that Jonathon is extremely stupid or there’s indeed a flip side.

Is it possible that this entire roost was planned and orchestrated by Greenspan?! Not only are the children convinced that their parents were murdered....but, we now how a sibling pointing her finger at the brother. And, for financial gain.

Either Jonathon is completely retarded or as sly as a fox. Anyone reading this article is now further convinced B+H were targeted but multiple murderers....possibly arranged and intricately planned by their only son....Jonathon, heir apparent.

One ought to read between the lines and ask themselves why would Jonathon come out now and so clearly be willing to “shoot himself in the foot”?

I state he’s taking one for the team. For all we know, Alex and Jonathon have pulled off a perfect hoax, and you’ve all bought into it. Greenspan is smiling.

Don’t think for one second that all 4 of them don’t know unequivocally their father killed their mother, then hung himself!!!!!

*There won’t be an arrest.

*Nobody will collect the 10 million.

 

[Rush4087]

Since this is a forum to express views, thoughts and theories re. death of B+H Sherman, l’d like to state the following:

*KD had strongly suggested in his book JS’s “involvement” in the targeted murders of his dad and mom.

*After 3 yrs he invites Donovan to his cottage for a 5 hr sit down without legal counsel.

*JS goes on to defend his possible involvement.

*Openly talks about his fondness for guns.

*Mentions, without reservation that Alex, his sister is worried he’s going to pull out a gun and shoot her in public. That she is convinced Jonathon’s behind it.

~ You’d have to believe that Jonathon is extremely stupid or there’s indeed a flip side.

Is it possible that this entire roost was planned and orchestrated by Greenspan?! Not only are the children convinced that their parents were murdered....but, we now how a sibling pointing her finger at the brother. And, for financial gain.

Either Jonathon is completely retarded or as sly as a fox. Anyone reading this article is now further convinced B+H were targeted but multiple murderers....possibly arranged and intricately planned by their only son....Jonathon, heir apparent.

One ought to read between the lines and ask themselves why would Jonathon come out now and so clearly be willing to “shoot himself in the foot”?

I state he’s taking one for the team. For all we know, Alex and Jonathon have pulled off a perfect hoax, and you’ve all bought into it. Greenspan is smiling.

Don’t think for one second that all 4 of them don’t know unequivocally their father killed their mother, then hung himself!!!!!

*There won’t be an arrest.

*Nobody will collect the 10 million.

I don't think anyone has ever accused JS of being as sly as a fox