CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #17

[Lexiintoronto]

I agree 100%. Something has always bothered me about him going that direction, but couldn't put my finger on it. If he was being dropped off/picked up, going the other way to a closer major road would have made more sense to me.

Where Old Colony meets Bayview, it’s mainly private homes on Bayview. If he was walking down Bannatyne to Leslie, there are a lot of commercial properties on the east side of Leslie where he could be either picked up or had a car waiting, imo.

Image from Google maps.

 

[juli99]

Where Old Colony meets Bayview, it’s mainly private homes on Bayview. If he was walking down Bannatyne to Leslie, there are a lot of commercial properties on the east side of Leslie where he could be either picked up or had a car waiting, imo.
View attachment 331957
Image from Google maps.

That's true. The KEG would have been very convenient.

 

[casesensitive]

To start with, you say the route he was walking was the opposite of what you would expect.
He likely thought so too. So, it's no surprise to me he took the opposite route to what he believed police would expect.

IMO, he had a 'clever plan' to be untraceable, and it worked. IMO, this person knew the consesquences of getting caught, and would walk all night to avoid it.

I also think, walking past home video cameras in dark neighbourhoods is much less risky than walking along brightly lit major thoroughfares, and multiple times over less risky than getting into a car anywhere close to the house. There's hundreds of thousands of faceless guys in bulky coats in TO, but far fewer of any particular make/model of car.

JMO

You are right. As soon as LE see a suspect vehicle on surveillance video, they have "something" to work on. I think the NW knew exactly what he was doing that night passing by home videos, and it denotes a highly sophisticated hit man, as that judge noted.

 

[Satchie]

I've been listening to KD's book. A couple things that stood out to me..

-BS said in his autobiography that in his mind, the most important things are intellect, drive, and giving money to charity. Yet, his will gave nothing to charity.

Like most uberwealthy people, the Sherman's donated through a few different private foundations, including the Apotex foundation and the Sherman foundation.

Just as, Bill Gates doesn't donate through his personal bank account, but through the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation.

This is done to minimize taxes, and reflects that most of Sherman's wealth was tied up with his ownership of his company: he didn't keep millions in bank accounts in order to write cheques for charity.

JMO

 

[juli99]

Likely unrelated but wondering if these people been mentioned at all? Targeted murders in 2017 in Hamilton and Vaughan. One fled to Mexico in January 2018.

Second person tied to Ontario mafia-linked murders found dead in Mexico

"Investigators said both shootings were orchestrated by unknown people but carried out by three suspects, involving surveillance prior to the attacks, and multiple getaway cars for the shooters to evade capture."

"A second, Daniel Mario Tomassetti, also fled to Mexico in January 2018 after police publicly stated that they had linked Barberi and Musitano's killings."

 

[Window21]

For all of you guys that are familiar with that area of the city is he close to any go trains or a subway? Could he be walking to get on public transportation?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

For all of you guys that are familiar with that area of the city is he close to any go trains or a subway? Could he be walking to get on public transportation?

19 minute walk north from Bannatyne & Leslie to get to Leslie station.


edit: Oriole Go station is close as well.



Images from Google maps.

 

[Window21]

Hmmm, I am thinking he may have got on on the go train or subway. It's very possible.
Thanks Lexiintoronto for the maps

 

[Window21]

Also, I wonder how many times the NW studied this walking route?
It makes me wonder because I get lost VERY easily and have no sense of direction.
If this NW is the hired hit man then I am guessing he may have walked this route a few days before the murders that way he could figure out how long that walk would take him etc....It's to bad the police don't have video 1 week prior to the murders. I am almost certain we would see him practicing his route etc.

 

[MistyWaters]

Also, I wonder how many times the NW studied this walking route?
It makes me wonder because I get lost VERY easily and have no sense of direction.
If this NW is the hired hit man then I am guessing he may have walked this route a few days before the murders that way he could figure out how long that walk would take him etc....It's to bad the police don't have video 1 week prior to the murders. I am almost certain we would see him practicing his route etc.

Unless I’m mistaken, TPS has not stated the walking man is “the hired hit man” while seeking the public’s assistance in his identification.

“Toronto police have released a video of a possible suspect wanted in connection with the double homicide investigation of billionaire couple Barryand Honey Sherman from 2017.

Brandon Price, a detective with the Toronto police homicide squad, held a press conference Tuesday morning asking anyone who recognizes the person in the video to come forward.”
Toronto police reveal possible suspect video for unsolved murders of Barry and Honey Sherman | Globalnews.ca

 

[Satchie]

You are right. As soon as LE see a suspect vehicle on surveillance video, they have "something" to work on. I think the NW knew exactly what he was doing that night passing by home videos, and it denotes a highly sophisticated hit man, as that judge noted.

Certainly, I would agree the killer(s) was/were not fools. But to assume that means he/they must have been a hit man? I don't see that connection. For eg, the Golden State killer wasn't a hit man, but he got away with 6 home invasion murders, most of them couples. He seemingly always came on foot, scoped out the area and entry ahead of time, left no finger prints, tied up the victims, and so on.

In this case, I do believe it was targeted. But maybe the killer was also doing it for whatever bizarre gratification motivated the Golden State Killer (and others): some kind of revenge, some kind of thrill, some sense of power, something more than merely money.

I also believe if someone has been watching all the true crime shows of past decades, as well as following real life cases, and they wanted to commit the perfect crime, they could have figured out all these strategies for evading detection.

JMO

 

[sammarlowe]

Certainly, I would agree the killer(s) was/were not fools. But to assume that means he/they must have been a hit man? I don't see that connection. For eg, the Golden State killer wasn't a hit man, but he got away with 6 home invasion murders, most of them couples. He seemingly always came on foot, scoped out the area and entry ahead of time, left no finger prints, tied up the victims, and so on.

In this case, I do believe it was targeted. But maybe the killer was also doing it for whatever bizarre gratification motivated the Golden State Killer (and others): some kind of revenge, some kind of thrill, some sense of power, something more than merely money.

I also believe if someone has been watching all the true crime shows of past decades, as well as following real life cases, and they wanted to commit the perfect crime, they could have figured out all these strategies for evading detection.

JMO

EARS/ONS (Golden State Killer) was former law enforcement, left DNA evidence which was eventually used to catch him, and committed his murders before modern surveillance and DNA testing existed.

 

[casesensitive]

Certainly, I would agree the killer(s) was/were not fools. But to assume that means he/they must have been a hit man? I don't see that connection. For eg, the Golden State killer wasn't a hit man, but he got away with 6 home invasion murders, most of them couples. He seemingly always came on foot, scoped out the area and entry ahead of time, left no finger prints, tied up the victims, and so on.

In this case, I do believe it was targeted. But maybe the killer was also doing it for whatever bizarre gratification motivated the Golden State Killer (and others): some kind of revenge, some kind of thrill, some sense of power, something more than merely money.

I also believe if someone has been watching all the true crime shows of past decades, as well as following real life cases, and they wanted to commit the perfect crime, they could have figured out all these strategies for evading detection.

JMO

I am surprised that you could compare this case to a serial killer who was adept in leaving no trace, or those who watched crime shows to learn how to get away with it. I think the investigation has gone well beyond looking for a random killer, or one revengeful person who thinks he got away with the perfect murder. That doesn't happen too often with mistakes left at the crime scene.

I trust the homicide report from TPS given to the court. We can't ignore the statement from this judge who had the complete file from TPS after 20 months of their investigation.

"Justice Michael Moldaver said that the murders were “a very, very sophisticated crime, in my view, committed by a very sophisticated organization — at least it has those hallmarks."

His words denote a "professional hit"and I will assume that this is likely true. That is the connection that you have missed imo.



Unsealing files poses ‘grave safety risks,’ Shermans’ estate trustees tell top court

 

[Window21]

Certainly, I would agree the killer(s) was/were not fools. But to assume that means he/they must have been a hit man? I don't see that connection.

If you have been following this case as closely as many of us here have been, then you would know it was stated several times in news articles etc that it appears this was a professional hit. I can't find all of the articles at this moment, but it has been mentioned many times in these threads.
Maybe eventually it will be proven otherwise and the police and experts will be wrong, but for now that is what we have to go on.

 

[Satchie]

EARS/ONS (Golden State Killer) was former law enforcement, left DNA evidence which was eventually used to catch him, and committed his murders before modern surveillance and DNA testing existed.

No one knew about DNA then. They do now, and most killers protect themselves from leaving any behind, by wearing hazmat suits.

The Shermans had no surveillance, modern or otherwise. I have no doubt, if they had, they might still be alive.

JMO

 

[Satchie]

I trust the homicide report from TPS given to the court. We can't ignore the statement from this judge who had the complete file from TPS after 20 months of their investigation.

"Justice Michael Moldaver said that the murders were “a very, very sophisticated crime, in my view, committed by a very sophisticated organization — at least it has those hallmarks."

His words denote a "professional hit"and I will assume that this is likely true. That is the connection that you have missed imo.

Unsealing files poses ‘grave safety risks,’ Shermans’ estate trustees tell top court

The judge you are quoting is not the judge who reviewed the TPS documents.

The judge you are quoting is on the Supreme Court, he was reviewing the argument brought by the lawyer for the Toronto Star. On the opposing side was the lawyer for the Sherman Estate.

The TPS had nothing to do with the issue of opening or closing the estate files. The judge you are quoting had no information whatever from TPS. He was expressing his opinion, just like anyone else. He was speculating: 'in my view...at least it has those hallmarks'.

Hit man, not a hit man, it's all speculation.

JMO.

 

[Satchie]

If you have been following this case as closely as many of us here have been, then you would know it was stated several times in news articles etc that it appears this was a professional hit. I can't find all of the articles at this moment, but it has been mentioned many times in these threads.
Maybe eventually it will be proven otherwise and the police and experts will be wrong, but for now that is what we have to go on.

I have been following this case from Day 1 (just went back for old times sake, I was post #4 after Dotr posted 3 news stories). I haven't posted much lately because I have other things to do with my time. But I have seen no evidence, anywhere, that police have stated they believe it was a professional hit. If you can contradict me, please, you must post the link.

Kevin Donovan of the Toronto Star has tried to solve this himself, without cooperation from Toronto Police, but IMO he is not an expert.

This case has had people/someone trying to influence public perception from the beginning with the whole murder/suicide fiasco. Now there appears to be a movement to try to convince people it's a hit man. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

I am surprised that you could compare this case to a serial killer who was adept in leaving no trace, or those who watched crime shows to learn how to get away with it. I think the investigation has gone well beyond looking for a random killer, or one revengeful person who thinks he got away with the perfect murder. That doesn't happen too often with mistakes left at the crime scene.

I trust the homicide report from TPS given to the court. We can't ignore the statement from this judge who had the complete file from TPS after 20 months of their investigation.

"Justice Michael Moldaver said that the murders were “a very, very sophisticated crime, in my view, committed by a very sophisticated organization — at least it has those hallmarks."

His words denote a "professional hit"and I will assume that this is likely true. That is the connection that you have missed imo.



Unsealing files poses ‘grave safety risks,’ Shermans’ estate trustees tell top court

The speculation arose during discussions regarding sealing or unsealing the estate file. There is no way a Supreme Court Judge who’s responsibility is ruling on an appeal of a sealed Estate file would be privy to the TPS investigation, much less take liberty in disclosing their theory to the public.

“Supreme Court Justice Michael Moldaver, who speculated that those responsible for the deaths of the Shermans belonged to a sophisticated criminal organization, questioned whether such a sealing order would have the effect of protecting identities.

"So it's fanciful to think that [the criminal organization] wouldn't know who the beneficiaries are, who the children are, who the grandchildren are and everything else about this family. And so what are we protecting?"

But Cseh said it is speculation to know who killed the couple…..”
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/barry-honey-sherman-court-estate-1.5752296

 

[Lexiintoronto]

19 minute walk north from Bannatyne & Leslie to get to Leslie station.
View attachment 331968

edit: Oriole Go station is close as well.
View attachment 331969


Images from Google maps.

FWIW, Just noting if the NW were to go south, there’s a hotel that is also about a 20-minute walk from Bannatyne & Leslie.

 

[newclues]

Looking at online information, garbage pickup day in the area was on every Friday.