CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #17

[juli99]

I wonder if BS may have been concerned that if he were to put one of his daughters in the mix, first off, which one would he choose.. the oldest??, and then would/might that person be swayed by their bro? Was it known at the time that BK was friends with JS, but even if so, the friendship was tempered with BK's marriage to his own daughter as well. Who could've imagined that both B and H would die at the same time, that his daughter's marriage to the one executor would fail, and that his long-time friend, confidant and business partner would be ousted by his son, to the point where his participation as executor was no longer invited to participate as one of the four executors in their meetings.

I thought the four daughters were trustees but then removed in March 2017? As far as who could have predicted all this would happen.... possibly the killer?

 

[juli99]

Hi All- new member.
I have been reading this case for the last 3 years.
When I read that Barry thought women were too emotional to be...forget the exact wording. Wondering if we are not clear on the role of the Trustee. A trustee carries out the terms of the Will as prescribed. Whether men or women who are trustees, emotion doesn't change what they have been sworn to abide to, as directed by the will.

Welcome! That's a good point. He might have just meant that they would be overly emotional due to grief, making it hard for them to handle the responsibilities.

 

[WINDSOR]

I was wandering the streets on Google Streetview yesterday, and to me the apartments at the end of Bannatyne could have served this purpose. But, how does one rent a safe house for a short period of time without it being traceable?

A number of ways to rent an apartment. First the perps, really do not care about the term. They could rent an apartment for 12 months, and pay the whole amount upfront, because this avoids credit checks and and the amount of money is really not significant in terms they are dealing with.
I have found available units in the past, by visiting apartment buildings and checking postings on message boards or talking to the superintendent. Now there are web sites that are available for this purpose.
Most landlords do not check identification too carefully if they have a big chunk of cash upfront.

'Typical patter' I am a student from South Africa, I need a place while I complete my studies here, but I may not need it for the full 12 months. I know you are concerned that I will skip out before my lease is paid up, so I am willing to pay the whole thing up front, do you have any problem with that?

 

[WINDSOR]

I was wandering the streets on Google Streetview yesterday, and to me the apartments at the end of Bannatyne could have served this purpose. But, how does one rent a safe house for a short period of time without it being traceable?

A number of ways to rent an apartment. First the perps, really do not care about the term. They could rent an apartment for 24 months, and pay the whole amount upfront, because this avoids credit checks and and the amount of money is really not significant in terms they are dealing with.
I have found available units in the past, by visiting apartment buildings and checking postings on message boards or talking to the superintendent. Now there are web sites that are available for this purpose.
Most landlords do not check identification too carefully if they have a big chunk of cash upfront.

'Typical patter' I am a student from South Africa, I need a place while I complete my studies here, but I may not need it for the full 24 months. I know you are concerned that I will skip out before my lease is paid up, so I am willing to pay the whole thing up front, do you have any problem with that?

 

[Window21]

Hi All- new member.
I have been reading this case for the last 3 years.
When I read that Barry thought women were too emotional to be...forget the exact wording. Wondering if we are not clear on the role of the Trustee. A trustee carries out the terms of the Will as prescribed. Whether men or women who are trustees, emotion doesn't change what they have been sworn to abide to, as directed by the will.

I believe you may be getting the executor of the will mixed up with trustee of a will.

Estate Trustee vs Executor - What's the Difference? | DLegal Law Office

"Simply put, an executor is someone appointed in the Will to manage the deceased’s estate. On the other hand, an estate trustee runs the trusts created by the deceased in the Will"

So according to this definition, I am wondering if BS said this because to manage the trusts you would need to have a backbone to stand up to certain people and maybe he thought the girls would not be strong enough to stand up to certain men? All speculation on my part, but I believe his 2 youngest children are female.

 

[juli99]

I believe you may be getting the executor of the will mixed up with trustee of a will.

Estate Trustee vs Executor - What's the Difference? | DLegal Law Office

"Simply put, an executor is someone appointed in the Will to manage the deceased’s estate. On the other hand, an estate trustee runs the trusts created by the deceased in the Will"

So according to this definition, I am wondering if BS said this because to manage the trusts you would need to have a backbone to stand up to certain people and maybe he thought the girls would not be strong enough to stand up to certain men? All speculation on my part, but I believe his 2 youngest children are female.

Hmmm... I'm confused now. I thought they were the same as the executors? Who is the executor?

 

[Window21]

I thought the four daughters were trustees but then removed in March 2017? As far as who could have predicted all this would happen.... possibly the killer?

I'm wondering if BS and the lawyer was reviewing the will and realized an error? It would be kinda tricky and maybe grounds to contest a will if he made the children trustees when they were the ones to receive all the money once they turn 35? I don't think you can be a trustee over your own trust? That would not make sense...all JMO
I'm not very educated on wills so I may be wrong

 

[ollie2]

My experience with a notary public is that they must know you for a minimum of X # of years, and vouch that is you. My cousin with a degree in engineering is a notary public, many people have the certification to be one, back in the day when you needed one to sign your passport photo, we always had him sign - and just funny note, he was younger than most he signed for.

Yes, you are correct in needing to vouch that you have known a person for an extended period of time for passports. If it is a change to a will or a codicle ex post facto to the will, it must be notorized with the person making the change or addition present.

 

[Window21]

Hmmm... I'm confused now. I thought they were the same as the executors? Who is the executor?

Me too....I don't understand all of this will stuff. Just trying to help, but maybe I'm adding more confusion. The super wealthy do things very differently than regular income people, so who knows how this will all play out

 

[ollie2]

I believe you may be getting the executor of the will mixed up with trustee of a will.

Estate Trustee vs Executor - What's the Difference? | DLegal Law Office

"Simply put, an executor is someone appointed in the Will to manage the deceased’s estate. On the other hand, an estate trustee runs the trusts created by the deceased in the Will"

So according to this definition, I am wondering if BS said this because to manage the trusts you would need to have a backbone to stand up to certain people and maybe he thought the girls would not be strong enough to stand up to certain men? All speculation on my part, but I believe his 2 youngest children are female.

That is correct. There is a distinction and I may have been reading in to the will at hand, not the trusts. I may be wrong, but the discussion seems to be conflating the two. That's where my confusion begins/ends.

 

[lukeonetwo]

Two thoughts:

1. The NW may be a decoy. They could have known there were cameras and done this intentionally.

2. I have heard of situations (not in Canada) where wills are notorized by a lawyer and there are people who "witness" the will being notarized, who are present visibly but effectively unknown to the person whose will it is. I imagine this is to prevent a conflict of interest, but I think when this is done it's a rather stupid practice, as it gives us no real confirmation of the identity of the person making the will in some sense (other than their lawyer). I suppose ID documents may be involved, but it still seems off to me. I certainly would not want my will notarized this way, but I suppose in the end I would do whatever courts in my jurisdiction prefer or allow.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

A number of ways to rent an apartment. First the perps, really do not care about the term. They could rent an apartment for 12 months, and pay the whole amount upfront, because this avoids credit checks and and the amount of money is really not significant in terms they are dealing with.
I have found available units in the past, by visiting apartment buildings and checking postings on message boards or talking to the superintendent. Now there are web sites that are available for this purpose.
Most landlords do not check identification too carefully if they have a big chunk of cash upfront.

'Typical patter' I am a student from South Africa, I need a place while I complete my studies here, but I may not need it for the full 12 months. I know you are concerned that I will skip out before my lease is paid up, so I am willing to pay the whole thing up front, do you have any problem with that?

Even a Vrbo or AirB&B with fake identification will do the trick. Wonder if you can see any AirB&B's near the last sighting of the NW? No one would have even met the renter in those cases, he could have booked it for 1 or 2 nights and be gone, nothing odd for that business.

 

[deugirtni]

Two thoughts:

1. The NW may be a decoy. They could have known there were cameras and done this intentionally.

2. I have heard of situations (not in Canada) where wills are notorized by a lawyer and there are people who "witness" the will being notarized, who are present visibly but effectively unknown to the person whose will it is. I imagine this is to prevent a conflict of interest, but I think when this is done it's a rather stupid practice, as it gives us no real confirmation of the identity of the person making the will in some sense (other than their lawyer). I suppose ID documents may be involved, but it still seems off to me. I certainly would not want my will notarized this way, but I suppose in the end I would do whatever courts in my jurisdiction prefer or allow.

But a decoy for what purpose? To distract LE from what is *really* going on? But LE had scoured all the footage from the area and general time period, and have said there is only this one person for whom they don't have an explanation for being there, etc.

 

[juli99]

Even a Vrbo or AirB&B with fake identification will do the trick. Wonder if you can see any AirB&B's near the last sighting of the NW? No one would have even met the renter in those cases, he could have booked it for 1 or 2 nights and be gone, nothing odd for that business.

It would be interesting to see what was available at the time for rent. I'm guessing any place with cameras would have been avoided, like a hotel or building with security.

 

[deugirtni]

I believe you may be getting the executor of the will mixed up with trustee of a will.

Estate Trustee vs Executor - What's the Difference? | DLegal Law Office

"Simply put, an executor is someone appointed in the Will to manage the deceased’s estate. On the other hand, an estate trustee runs the trusts created by the deceased in the Will"

So according to this definition, I am wondering if BS said this because to manage the trusts you would need to have a backbone to stand up to certain people and maybe he thought the girls would not be strong enough to stand up to certain men? All speculation on my part, but I believe his 2 youngest children are female.

Hmmm... I'm confused now. I thought they were the same as the executors? Who is the executor?

That is correct. There is a distinction and I may have been reading in to the will at hand, not the trusts. I may be wrong, but the discussion seems to be conflating the two. That's where my confusion begins/ends.

It is weird, I have saved a pile of news articles on my hard drive (in case they disappear), and I did a search for 'executor' on all I have saved, and not much has been mentioned at all about 'executors'... the only real mention or reporting of the same in articles that I can find, is this from KD's book, wherein it seems KD is of the understanding that the executors and trustees are one and the same in this case?

ETA: It seems everywhere else that I can find, they are referred to as 'trustees':

KD's ebook pg 222 (from my perspective, yvmv)
'Barry's will was a simple document, created in 2013 and described by a lawyer who saw it as being "not too far removed from the boilerplate will you could get from Staples." Should he die before Honey, it set up a "living trust" to look after his wife, under the guidance of four trustees. The names of those trustees were changed in 2015 and again in 2017. When Sherman died, the trustees, which are sometimes also called executors, were [JS, AG, JK, and AS's] husband, [BK] - an all-male group of trustees. [JK] had been on a mission in 2017 to add a fifth trustee so that if there was ever a contentious issue, there would be a numerical tiebreaker. Sherman was having a hard time finding someone to act as an additional trustee, according to one businessman who said he passed on the offer because he did not want to get tied up in Sherman family politics. As to adding a woman, someone who had in-depth discussions with Sherman about that issue observed that Sherman had chauvinistic tendencies and had commented "I cannot have a woman, they are too emotional."'

 

[deugirtni]

I thought the four daughters were trustees but then removed in March 2017? As far as who could have predicted all this would happen.... possibly the killer?

Yes, but then it seems they wanted a fifth executor after that, to be a numerical tiebreaker, so he could've added one of them back.

 

[juli99]

It is weird, I have saved a pile of news articles on my hard drive (in case they disappear), and I did a search for 'executor' on all I have saved, and not much has been mentioned at all about 'executors'... the only real mention or reporting of the same in articles that I can find, is this from KD's book, wherein it seems KD is of the understanding that the executors and trustees are one and the same in this case?

ETA: It seems everywhere else that I can find, they are referred to as 'trustees':

KD's ebook pg 222 (from my perspective, yvmv)
'Barry's will was a simple document, created in 2013 and described by a lawyer who saw it as being "not too far removed from the boilerplate will you could get from Staples." Should he die before Honey, it set up a "living trust" to look after his wife, under the guidance of four trustees. The names of those trustees were changed in 2015 and again in 2017. When Sherman died, the trustees, which are sometimes also called executors, were [JS, AG, JK, and AS's] husband, [BK] - an all-male group of trustees. [JK] had been on a mission in 2017 to add a fifth trustee so that if there was ever a contentious issue, there would be a numerical tiebreaker. Sherman was having a hard time finding someone to act as an additional trustee, according to one businessman who said he passed on the offer because he did not want to get tied up in Sherman family politics. As to adding a woman, someone who had in-depth discussions with Sherman about that issue observed that Sherman had chauvinistic tendencies and had commented "I cannot have a woman, they are too emotional."'

Thank you! I'm listening to the audiobook so I don't have the text to refer back to. It seems like there is a lot of confusion still regarding this living trust and the trustees, their role after his death, and what exactly was in the will.

My gut feeling is that Barry did not like talking about death or wills. He was quoted as saying he did not have time to die in KD's book. That might explain the nearly boilerplate will. It would also make it easy for someone else to take advantage of that fact, and swing things to their advantage in terms of the estate. JMO

 

[dotr]

Wondering if BS/ Apotex did comply or were about to comply, with the deal to record conversations and report on his competitors and rivals? speculation, imo.
Oct 2021 rbbm.
Barry Sherman’s Apotex has paid $100 million to answer U.S. price-fixing allegations and agreed to help investigate competitors | The Star
''In the U.S. government case, Apotex admitted to a conspiracy to “suppress and eliminate competition,” escaping a criminal conviction that would likely have barred it from the lucrative American market, according to the U.S. Justice Department. As its part of the deal, Apotex must co-operate with investigations of rivals, including recording telephone conversations, introducing law enforcement to sources, or testifying before a grand jury, documents filed in court say''

''Sources close to the Sherman family and Apotex say these agreements and potential liabilities are complicating the Sherman children’s plan to sell the Toronto-based firm.''

''In addition to the payout, Apotex agreed to help U.S. justice officials investigate other generic firms, including (if asked) recording phone calls with officials from other companies, testifying before federal grand juries related to the investigation, and setting up a corporate compliance system to “detect and prevent criminal antitrust violations” in the future.''

 

[Momtoapug]

Long time lurker. Created an account just for this post.
I’ve always been certain Nightwalker must have walked along the Greenbelt (Deerlick creek) No cameras, you can get under the highway, access to so many secluded spots, where he could have a car waiting. Could have cut through to go to the Armenian Catholic Church. Could even have double backed and gone to the Don Valley Golf Course. I think this makes much more sense than the risk of a rental. I have a friend who is quite familiar with the green belt area, I’m going to ask some questions. I’m curious to take a walk there once this snow clears (GTA) Only risk would have been leaving a foot print trail given the snow. But the bodies weren’t found for two days, lots of time for tracks to be crossed over. TPS certainly didn’t seem to canvass the green belt after the discovery.

Edit to add- The 401 Highway in that area is elevated in many places.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Long time lurker. Created an account just for this post.
I’ve always been certain Nightwalker must have walked along the Greenbelt (Deerlick creek) No cameras, you can get under the highway, access to so many secluded spots, where he could have a car waiting. Could have cut through to go to the Armenian Catholic Church. Could even have double backed and gone to the Don Valley Golf Course. I think this makes much more sense than the risk of a rental. I have a friend who is quite familiar with the green belt area, I’m going to ask some questions. I’m curious to take a walk there once this snow clears (GTA) Only risk would have been leaving a foot print trail given the snow. But the bodies weren’t found for two days, lots of time for tracks to be crossed over. TPS certainly didn’t seem to canvass the green belt after the discovery.

Edit to add- The 401 Highway in that area is elevated in many places.

Welcome. Can you please map the route you mentioned?

The Don River is close to where the suspect was last seen, and it’s in a greenbelt area close to Leslie & the 401.

He was travelling south-east on Bannatyne towards Leslie, the Armenian Catholic church is in the opposite direction, north-west.

The Don Valley Golf course is an hour west (by walking), and Deerlick Creek is 45 minutes east (by walking) of where he was last seen. (Just going by google maps).

I may not be understanding you correctly.