CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #18

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  • #221
I think that was part of my confusion regarding the pool being underground because they had said there was an exterior door in the basement. Was there a retaining wall on that side? The landscape of the house confuses me.

This is where I believe the exterior basement door was:
E1CB3A1E-F501-4DE8-8F47-6CF468D18FF8.jpeg
94F5E5A4-262C-4673-B410-45C6BF283EA7.jpeg

I think there were steps down and to the right, possibly.

It looks like a section of the fencing was down close to that door.

1C711BFF-97FB-4455-8E5F-F2EAB1E22A1F.jpeg

ETA: The stairwell to the exterior door doesn’t look protected from the elements. Unless it was heated, the killer may have left footprints in the snow from that evening, imo.
 
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  • #222
Wasn't the guest room painted recently and the window was left open to air it? Thus, the painter(s) knew that this window was left slightly open.

I willing to bet that they had more than one extra room for a guest. However the idea of a guest in the home Wednesday evening is very intriguing. Who was this person, when and how did they arrive and when and how did they leave?

If there was really a guest in the home, one would think at least one of the Sherman's staff would be aware of this fact and possibly the identity of the person. Yet we have not heard anything from the staff regarding this guest.
 
  • #223
This is where I believe the exterior basement door was:
View attachment 334495
View attachment 334497

I think there were steps down and to the right, possibly.

It looks like a section of the fencing was down close to that door.

View attachment 334496

ETA: The stairwell to the exterior door doesn’t look protected from the elements. Unless it was heated, the killer may have left footprints in the snow from that evening, imo.

Thanks! Are the Houssmax photos available somewhere online?
 
  • #224
I willing to bet that they had more than one extra room for a guest. However the idea of a guest in the home Wednesday evening is very intriguing. Who was this person, when and how did they arrive and when and how did they leave?

If there was really a guest in the home, one would think at least one of the Sherman's staff would be aware of this fact and possibly the identity of the person. Yet we have not heard anything from the staff regarding this guest.

Maybe they were expecting a visitor, maybe that was part of the plan. For example I tell them I would like t come over for a visit, so they are home waiting for me, but instead I send the hired hit man???
 
  • #225
Maybe they were expecting a visitor, maybe that was part of the plan. For example I tell them I would like t come over for a visit, so they are home waiting for me, but instead I send the hired hit man???

For some reason this makes me think they were being blackmailed. Otherwise, why wouldn't HS and BS simply tell people that they were having a visitor?
 
  • #226
  • #227
For some reason this makes me think they were being blackmailed. Otherwise, why wouldn't HS and BS simply tell people that they were having a visitor?
Agree that HS seemed to have implied she was on her way home to the friend she called after the @ Apotex meeting and did not mention a need to be home for a visitor? But I do not think that BS would put up with blackmail in any way, he was in court most all of the time, his skeletons would be out and in the open. Nor do I think he would include HS in any discussions on how to deal with a blackmailer. BS was brilliant-minded and knew he was much more intelligent than most others, to some it may come across as arrogant when a person is so sure of themselves or dismissive of another's ideas/thoughts. I believe BS was smart enough to understand this as well, and why he would give so much, it is reported that he lacked the compassion and emotions most others experience, but yet was generous to a fault. But we know that comes with a price, you do go against him, he may pull the rug out from under you, and not suffer any regrets/feelings. Cut and dry come to mind, like a scientist's mind it is or it is not, it is fact. For this reasoning, IMO BS would laugh a blackmailer off in a minute.
 
  • #228
This is where I believe the exterior basement door was:
View attachment 334495
View attachment 334497

I think there were steps down and to the right, possibly.

It looks like a section of the fencing was down close to that door.

View attachment 334496

ETA: The stairwell to the exterior door doesn’t look protected from the elements. Unless it was heated, the killer may have left footprints in the snow from that evening, imo.

I do not believe that what you are referring to is part of the fencing around the yard.. I believe it is a brick wall at the back edge of the patio. The fencing at the back of the property is hidden by the branches of the green tree, and to the right of that by the brick wall.
 
  • #229
Maybe they were expecting a visitor, maybe that was part of the plan. For example I tell them I would like t come over for a visit, so they are home waiting for me, but instead I send the hired hit man???

That seems unlikely IMO. For example, if either of them mentioned to anyone that their friend "joe" was coming over that night, LE would have an easy target to investigate.
 
  • #230
I do not believe that what you are referring to is part of the fencing around the yard.. I believe it is a brick wall at the back edge of the patio. The fencing at the back of the property is hidden by the branches of the green tree, and to the right of that by the brick wall.


View of the neighbour’s:
5F5C60AD-EDDB-49DA-AA82-1A8ED246BD0C.jpeg

"+unitNumber+homeAddress+" Web Gallery - www.tyso.ca

Photo where I see a gap:
upload_2022-2-23_14-37-17.jpeg

houssmax.ca photo

I may be wrong, but that’s what I see. I’ll keep my eye out for a clearer photo.

I think it’s significant because that location would enable the killer to bypass the Shermans’ gate and he’d likely not get caught on cctv across the street. If he went in through the basement door, that gap (if that’s what it is) is close to the basement door.

Even if it’s a solid wall or fence, it seems low enough to easily get over, imo. Another view:
C025A86E-4EFD-41E0-80C2-87A7E8760994.jpeg
 
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  • #231
For some reason this makes me think they were being blackmailed. Otherwise, why wouldn't HS and BS simply tell people that they were having a visitor?
Maybe that inspection report that BS was bringing home had something to do with it.
 
  • #232
View of the neighbour’s:
View attachment 334504

"+unitNumber+homeAddress+" Web Gallery - www.tyso.ca

Photo where I see a gap:
View attachment 334505
houssmax.ca photo

I may be wrong, but that’s what I see. I’ll keep my eye out for a clearer photo.

I think it’s significant because that location would enable the killer to bypass the Shermans’ gate and he’d likely not get caught on cctv across the street. If he went in through the basement door, that gap (if that’s what it is) is close to the basement door.

Even if it’s a solid wall or fence, it seems low enough to easily get over, imo. Another view:
View attachment 334508
Thinking if a perp entered the home through that window the floor would give evidence of wet or dirty footprints, snow was on the ground on the 12th. Do those floors look like they would show a footprint if you came in that way? Same for that basement door, if it was used some footprints would have been somewhere around the perimeter of the home, none were reported, and makes sense since the immediate reporting was no forced entry, I assume also no footprints to a window or stairwell on the 15th?
 
  • #233
found this link to an old article but very in-depth details shared that do answer some questions some of us have posted in the past few years:

BY GERALDINE SHERMAN

How Barry Sherman built his multibillion-dollar fortune

here are some highlights from this article from questions I recall:

LE asked the Sherman children what shoes HS would normally wear in the home: from the article - Honey appeared, dressed not unlike her housekeeper in a white T-shirt, green pants and white Crocs, no jewellery.


HS office seems to have been in the basement and she took people to her office for interviewing purposes - She took Geraldine here for information in this article.

She led me down a hall beside a glassed-in swimming pool.

About BS and how he handled his family relationships:

In his autobiography, he described himself as recognizing no God and rejecting religion and free will in favour of “logical deduction.” He wrote about the instinct to co-operate with others, particularly relatives, when it was to “mutual advantage.” There can be no such thing as “altruism, kindness, generosity or morality,” he says, because humans act only in pursuit of their own happiness.
 
  • #234
Thinking if a perp entered the home through that window the floor would give evidence of wet or dirty footprints, snow was on the ground on the 12th. Do those floors look like they would show a footprint if you came in that way? Same for that basement door, if it was used some footprints would have been somewhere around the perimeter of the home, none were reported, and makes sense since the immediate reporting was no forced entry, I assume also no footprints to a window or stairwell on the 15th?

The cleaning lady was cleaning that morning before anyone realized there was a problem. Perhaps she mopped away the footprints? Maybe the whole plan was done when it was in order for the house to be cleaned before the police got there. But the showing messed things up. I'm guessing the pool room would have been the last room cleaned, if she went there at all.
 
  • #235
Thinking if a perp entered the home through that window the floor would give evidence of wet or dirty footprints, snow was on the ground on the 12th. Do those floors look like they would show a footprint if you came in that way? Same for that basement door, if it was used some footprints would have been somewhere around the perimeter of the home, none were reported, and makes sense since the immediate reporting was no forced entry, I assume also no footprints to a window or stairwell on the 15th?

I don’t think he came through the front window, but one possibility is through the exterior entry, and only door, to the basement. It was found unlocked. The police said he was seen entering and exiting the same way in an area ‘tight’ to the Sherman home. The space I circled is literally tight, but the police may mean any area that is close.

The floors were slate tiles. I think it’s possible the police have some footprints as we know at least one person was asked by police to provide the shoes they were wearing that day.

There was some snow Wednesday night, but I don’t know if it cleared by Friday.

ETA: I really don’t know how he entered, of course, but the front driveway and ramp to the garage were heated. So no footprints, just melted snow. I think it’s possible the back patio was heated as well. The entire grounds look as though they were designed to be zero maintenance.
 
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  • #236
The cleaning lady was cleaning that morning before anyone realized there was a problem. Perhaps she mopped away the footprints? Maybe the whole plan was done when it was in order for the house to be cleaned before the police got there. But the showing messed things up. I'm guessing the pool room would have been the last room cleaned, if she went there at all.
all reports shared to date were that no one went to the basement other than the furnace maintenance person and he did not require to go into the pool area.

So I do not think they got to cleaning anything down there yet. This is not saying the perp did not do any cleaning up himself, we have no clue.
 
  • #237
Just had a thought as to why the staff was not as concerned as to where the Shermans were after seeing HS cell phone (if the staff knew it was HS phone or just a cell phone on the floor we are not 100% IMO - no one was there the day before the staff would not know if any showings took place so this could be anyone's phone) the two were not up and waiting for the trainer as normal routine, entering a completely quiet home without the looks of any break in or missing items and No shoes or coats at the door or entry, no keys on the counter, it would appear they had gone out without their vehicles.
 
  • #238
View of the neighbour’s:
View attachment 334504

"+unitNumber+homeAddress+" Web Gallery - www.tyso.ca

Photo where I see a gap:
View attachment 334505
houssmax.ca photo

I may be wrong, but that’s what I see. I’ll keep my eye out for a clearer photo.

I think it’s significant because that location would enable the killer to bypass the Shermans’ gate and he’d likely not get caught on cctv across the street. If he went in through the basement door, that gap (if that’s what it is) is close to the basement door.

Even if it’s a solid wall or fence, it seems low enough to easily get over, imo. Another view:
View attachment 334508

I agree with you. Access to the yard and house appears to have been easy, even if there was a fence
 
  • #239
View of the neighbour’s:
View attachment 334504

"+unitNumber+homeAddress+" Web Gallery - www.tyso.ca

Photo where I see a gap:
View attachment 334505
houssmax.ca photo

I may be wrong, but that’s what I see. I’ll keep my eye out for a clearer photo.

I think it’s significant because that location would enable the killer to bypass the Shermans’ gate and he’d likely not get caught on cctv across the street. If he went in through the basement door, that gap (if that’s what it is) is close to the basement door.

Even if it’s a solid wall or fence, it seems low enough to easily get over, imo. Another view:
View attachment 334508

I agree with you. Access to the yard and house appears to have been easy, even if there was a fence
 
  • #240
Great digging here, guys.

I haven't been around lately, but, I wanted to share this tidbit for those who don't know, as I recently discovered it myself.

When trying to view an article with a paywall, click on the link and when the page loads, immediately hit the airplane mode key. This takes you offline - but - allows you to read the article! :-)
 
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