CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #18

[ldlager]

To me, it seems odd that they were killed and/or placed in the only area in the house with a security camera, which insiders may have known was turned off. Possibly points to killer(s) not only staging it as a murder/suicide, but also possibly knowing an insider who could inform on camera being non-operational. Just my opinion.

We don't know if the camera(s) there

Assuming the loans were made from one of Barry’s companies, the company doesn’t collapse if the major shareholder dies. A private company is a registered legal entity. The terms of any lending agreements would remain in place and according to succession planning, a new shareholder would take over. Businesses lending is much different than someone lending someone money on a personal basis. I think it’d be highly unusual if a clause was added regarding the death of a shareholder because in realty, the money wasn’t directly lent by a shareholder.

In a different lending arrangement, it was Sherman that was involved.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/barry-sherman-lawsuit-1.4506346
“Those emails show correspondence between Sherman's holding company, Sherfam Inc., Gottlieb and Shaun Rootenberg.

Gottlieb emailed officials at Sherfam Inc. in August 2015 to thank them for the promised $150,000 investment.”

ETA, and this BBM. His finances likely became more complex as years went by.
Endless court battles, angry relatives and shady players: the truth about Barry Sherman
“His financial interests, conducted through a web of private companies, trusts and foundations were so Byzantine that even he had trouble keeping them all straight. During his Rubenstein deposition in 1990, a lawyer asked him where he got the bail money. “I don’t know,” he replied. “My banking is very, very complex. I simply instructed my staff to have the money forwarded.”….”

Assuming that is the structure, the loans do not disappear if BS were to pass away. I am not arguing that. My point is we don't know the specific terms of the loans made to FDA. While I agree it might be unusual to have the loans forgiven in certain situations, it is frankly even MORE unusual that the loans were ever made to FDA in the first place. I don't think he had commercial or private lenders lined up to provide him funding for his projects. We don't know the terms of the loans, and/or their repayment requirements. And we don't know if these loans have subsequently been repaid or perhaps forgiven. It is entirely possible that the loans were made to an entity jointly owned by FDA and BS and that entity had a key man insurance policy that paid out in the event of the death of one of the two shareholders. We just don't know. So we cannot definitively say what the state of the loans is/are. Frankly, AFAIK there has been no press indicating that FDA is in financial difficulty, so I would be surprised if his allegedly significant indebtedness to BS and/or related companies has been repaid.

 

[ldlager]

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[ollie2]

I think we’re looking at a lot of characters without knowing anything at all about their personalities or background history. Thank goodness not everyone is capable of murder, even if there’s a possible motive. But this one, I’d be surprised if the killer doesn’t have a long list of violence, spiteful or malicious acts and cruelty in his past.

I agree that there are/have been a long list of characters.....but I believe that we, the public know very little to date as far as they are in the investigation As far as the "killer" goes... and if it is thought to be a hit, then I would agree that as a hitman-there is likely a long list of violence. It is a job/career for hitman.

 

[ollie2]

I think we’re looking at a lot of characters without knowing anything at all about their personalities or background history. Thank goodness not everyone is capable of murder, even if there’s a possible motive. But this one, I’d be surprised if the killer doesn’t have a long list of violence, spiteful or malicious acts and cruelty in his past.

I agree that there are/have been a long list of characters.....but I believe that we, the public know very little to date as far as they are in the investigation As far as the "killer" goes... and if it is thought to be a hit, then I would agree that as a hitman-there is likely a long list of violence. It is a job/career for hitman.

 

[ollie2]

I agree that there are/have been a long list of characters.....but I believe that we, the public know very little to date as far as they are in the investigation As far as the "killer" goes... and if it is thought to be a hit, then I would agree that as a hitman-there is likely a long list of violence. It is a job/career for hitman.

 

[MistyWaters]

We don't know if the camera(s) there


Assuming that is the structure, the loans do not disappear if BS were to pass away. I am not arguing that. My point is we don't know the specific terms of the loans made to FDA. While I agree it might be unusual to have the loans forgiven in certain situations, it is frankly even MORE unusual that the loans were ever made to FDA in the first place. I don't think he had commercial or private lenders lined up to provide him funding for his projects. We don't know the terms of the loans, and/or their repayment requirements. And we don't know if these loans have subsequently been repaid or perhaps forgiven. It is entirely possible that the loans were made to an entity jointly owned by FDA and BS and that entity had a key man insurance policy that paid out in the event of the death of one of the two shareholders. We just don't know. So we cannot definitively say what the state of the loans is/are. Frankly, AFAIK there has been no press indicating that FDA is in financial difficulty, so I would be surprised if his allegedly significant indebtedness to BS and/or related companies has been repaid.

I’ve actually never noticed that the money Barry gave FDA was in the form of loans, intended to be repaid.

Who Killed Honey and Barry Sherman: Investigating The Unsolved Billionaire Murders
“The movies D’Angelo makes, which Sherman bankrolled and executive produced, all feature different but equally rumpled versions of D’Angelo, who, of course, stars in each movie. He’s the everyman, the tough guy, the guy with the whole world against him who comes through in the end. There were many business outsiders who gained Sherman’s attention over the years, but none with D’Angelo’s charm, which may have been one of the reasons he and Sherman were friends for more than fifteen years…”

 

[juli99]

KD said it was the powder room right by the front door. In his book he said the maid heard the phone ringing and followed the sound to the bathroom where she found it on the floor. She placed it on the counter.

But after the book was published he said the real estate agent found it on the counter (maybe both versions are true.)

According to KD, Honey usually used the side door, and would park her car close to it. He said they rarely used the front doors.

ETA: As the Sherman children got older I wonder if any of them decided to have their bedrooms in the basement. There was a nanny’s quarters complete with a kitchen down there.

Okay, just putting this together then in a potential scenario. Honey likely came in through the side door, and then ran to the powder room near the front door to escape her attacker. Why would she not have run out the front door instead of into a room she could not escape from? I pictured her being attacked as soon as she came through the (front) door and having nowhere to turn but the powder room, but that doesn't seem to be what happened here.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Okay, just putting this together then in a potential scenario. Honey likely came in through the side door, and then ran to the powder room near the front door to escape her attacker. Why would she not have run out the front door instead of into a room she could not escape from? I pictured her being attacked as soon as she came through the (front) door and having nowhere to turn but the powder room, but that doesn't seem to be what happened here.

That’s what I thought—the front doors are right there. She had her phone (and where are her keys and car fob with car alarm?) The only reason I can see that she would run to the bathroom instead of the doors is if she knew her attacker, and wanted to de-escalate the situation instead of calling out for help. (Not knowing how serious the situation was.)

Or he was a stranger. She was in the bathroom, not knowing he was there, and he surprised her as she was leaving.

A bit risky to attack her there, imo, if they had a glass-break feature on their alarm, which is common. It’s not difficult to trip them with slamming doors or if Honey had knocked something over. (My dog barking set off my parents glass-break feature. The alarm company sent the police over.)

The front door, and dining room doors to the exterior had glass.

 

[juli99]

That’s what I thought—the front doors are right there. She had her phone (and where are her keys and car fob with car alarm?) The only reason I can see that she would run to the bathroom instead of the doors is if she knew her attacker, and wanted to de-escalate the situation instead of calling out for help. (Not knowing how serious the situation was.)

Or he was a stranger. She was in the bathroom, not knowing he was there, and he surprised her as she was leaving.

A bit risky to attack her there, imo, if they had a glass-break feature on their alarm, which is common. It’s not difficult to trip them with slamming doors or if Honey had knocked something over. (My dog barking set off my parents glass-break feature. The alarm company sent the police over.)

The front door, and dining room doors to the exterior had glass.

The only reason I could think of for going to the bathroom was to lock the door and call 911, if she thought running out to the front door would not get her help in time. Either because neighbors were too far or he had a gun or other weapon. Obviously, that didn't happen because there was no phone call from her phone that night, that we know of. So I assumed she tried to close the door but he pushed his way in.

The scenarios with her using the bathroom on purpose without being chased require her to use a bathroom she rarely used. I wonder what her reason would be for doing that.

I suppose as well, it's possible her attacker came to the front door and she answered it. He entered the house, attacked her, and her only option to escape was the powder room. For some reason, I always assumed he was already in the house when she got home.

 

[ldlager]

I’ve actually never noticed that the money Barry gave FDA was in the form of loans, intended to be repaid.

Who Killed Honey and Barry Sherman: Investigating The Unsolved Billionaire Murders
“The movies D’Angelo makes, which Sherman bankrolled and executive produced, all feature different but equally rumpled versions of D’Angelo, who, of course, stars in each movie. He’s the everyman, the tough guy, the guy with the whole world against him who comes through in the end. There were many business outsiders who gained Sherman’s attention over the years, but none with D’Angelo’s charm, which may have been one of the reasons he and Sherman were friends for more than fifteen years…”

I doubt he loaned millions to his son but just gave millions to FDA. But who knows?

 

[ldlager]

The only reason I could think of for going to the bathroom was to lock the door and call 911, if she thought running out to the front door would not get her help in time. Either because neighbors were too far or he had a gun or other weapon. Obviously, that didn't happen because there was no phone call from her phone that night, that we know of. So I assumed she tried to close the door but he pushed his way in.

The scenarios with her using the bathroom on purpose without being chased require her to use a bathroom she rarely used. I wonder what her reason would be for doing that.

I suppose as well, it's possible her attacker came to the front door and she answered it. He entered the house, attacked her, and her only option to escape was the powder room. For some reason, I always assumed he was already in the house when she got home.

I don't see how her phone being in the bathroom definitively means that she actually went into the bathroom.

 

[juli99]

I don't see how her phone being in the bathroom definitively means that she actually went into the bathroom.

Do you mean the killer put it there? Or she somehow threw it into the bathroom?

 

[WINDSOR]

The TPS have the NW as the prime suspect, and quite possibly the actual killer of the Sherman's.
Was he in the home alone with the Shermans or did he have an accomplice? The TPS have never commented on this aspect. The TPS may have information that there was an accomplish, and have not revealed that fact.

To my way of thinking, sending in one person to subdue, strangle and stage the bodies of two people is a high risk scenario. True, since arrival times of the victims was spaced, they only had to deal with one victim at a time. However the NW had no idea of how much resistance the Shermans would put up, or if the Shermans had any self-defense weapons.

It would be useful if the TPS made a statement if they believe there were any other individual(s) in the Sherman home besides the NW.

The TPS have said the NW is the only person they have not identified. Could it be possible they know the identity of someone else in the home that evening?

 

[juli99]

It would be very informative to know when the NW was seen entering that area without video footage. We know that Honey's last phone call was at 6:21 pm. She had her phone in her hand at that time. Sometime after that it ended up in the powder room. Where was the NW at 6:21 pm?

"The last phone call Honey made was at 6:21 p.m. on Dec. 13 and preliminary data obtained from her iPhone showed several missed calls on Dec. 14 and Dec. 15."

Police 'committed' to bringing closure, justice to Sherman family, cops say on 3rd anniversary of billionaire couple's murder

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Okay, just putting this together then in a potential scenario. Honey likely came in through the side door, and then ran to the powder room near the front door to escape her attacker. Why would she not have run out the front door instead of into a room she could not escape from? I pictured her being attacked as soon as she came through the (front) door and having nowhere to turn but the powder room, but that doesn't seem to be what happened here.

Wondering how other women exit their vehicles to enter the home for the evening. When I arrive in my driveway at the end of a day, I gather whatever I do not want to leave (anything of value) in the car and take it inside, be it hand gloves on the front seat, my purse, my laptop bag, my shopping bag if I stopped on the way home. It would be rare that I did not have something to take, purse and keys for sure, my hands always have something in them as I enter the home.

I do not usually have my phone in my hand. I usually put it in a pocket or in my purse and or laptop bag. I have my keys in my hand and whatever I took from the car. I step in the door and immediately start to remove shoes, even before I put anything down - (HS entry was into a mudroom area so maybe shoes were not removed immediately) - So if it were me that was accosted as I entered my home, I would need time to grab my phone from a pocket or purse etc

Someone has asked the question already where is HS's shopping bag? it could have still been in the car we do not know but if it is nowhere to be found why would perp take it? memento?

Adding to that, where are her keys, where is her purse? where were these located? Both were found with coats on, we assume shoes on. were keys in their pockets? still, where is HS's purse.

Makes me wonder was the underground garage entry to the home locked? did BS need keys to enter the house, if so again where are his keys, he dropped his gloves and papers but no keys? he just walked in the door (we think) he has his winter coat and shoes (we think) on, drops what he has in his hands - not his phone (that was found in the pool area) - maybe he did drop it and the perp picked it up and took it to the pool area? but no mention of keys? BS could have pocketed them as he opened the door.

Starting to get an impression these items were left as red herrings or reporting on these subjects has been misconstrued by the media. And IMO rightfully so, LE will not correct poor media reporting if it does not hurt them or the investigation. Again IMO a family will step in at times to correct the media reporting (hire your own investigative team to find out what happened because LE is not sharing any info with anyone and able to leak details that you want the public to know) but LE time is better spent to observe the reactions to these misconceptions than spend time correcting them.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

It would be very informative to know when the NW was seen entering that area without video footage. We know that Honey's last phone call was at 6:21 pm. She had her phone in her hand at that time. Sometime after that it ended up in the powder room. Where was the NW at 6:21 pm?

"The last phone call Honey made was at 6:21 p.m. on Dec. 13 and preliminary data obtained from her iPhone showed several missed calls on Dec. 14 and Dec. 15."

Police 'committed' to bringing closure, justice to Sherman family, cops say on 3rd anniversary of billionaire couple's murder

She left Apotex after 6:00 (KD and others have given different times.) I think she may have made that call on her way to Bayview Village Shopping Centre where she made purchases.

KD thinks she was home by 8:30 for some reason, but his timeline shifts sometimes as he obtains new court records.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Wondering how other women exit their vehicles to enter the home for the evening. When I arrive in my driveway at the end of a day, I gather whatever I do not want to leave (anything of value) in the car and take it inside, be it hand gloves on the front seat, my purse, my laptop bag, my shopping bag if I stopped on the way home. It would be rare that I did not have something to take, purse and keys for sure, my hands always have something in them as I enter the home.

I do not usually have my phone in my hand. I usually put it in a pocket or in my purse and or laptop bag. I have my keys in my hand and whatever I took from the car. I step in the door and immediately start to remove shoes, even before I put anything down - (HS entry was into a mudroom area so maybe shoes were not removed immediately) - So if it were me that was accosted as I entered my home, I would need time to grab my phone from a pocket or purse etc

Someone has asked the question already where is HS's shopping bag? it could have still been in the car we do not know but if it is nowhere to be found why would perp take it? memento?

Adding to that, where are her keys, where is her purse? where were these located? Both were found with coats on, we assume shoes on. were keys in their pockets? still, where is HS's purse.

Makes me wonder was the underground garage entry to the home locked? did BS need keys to enter the house, if so again where are his keys, he dropped his gloves and papers but no keys? he just walked in the door (we think) he has his winter coat and shoes (we think) on, drops what he has in his hands - not his phone (that was found in the pool area) - maybe he did drop it and the perp picked it up and took it to the pool area? but no mention of keys? BS could have pocketed them as he opened the door.

Starting to get an impression these items were left as red herrings or reporting on these subjects has been misconstrued by the media. And IMO rightfully so, LE will not correct poor media reporting if it does not hurt them or the investigation. Again IMO a family will step in at times to correct the media reporting (hire your own investigative team to find out what happened because LE is not sharing any info with anyone and able to leak details that you want the public to know) but LE time is better spent to observe the reactions to these misconceptions than spend time correcting them.

In many photos she’s wearing a Chanel Wallet On Chain.(WOC).

I have one as well. (They were affordable when they first came out.). Once it’s on, strapped over the shoulder the way Honey wore it, it’s easy to forget it. I drive with it on. If you take it off the chain is long and tends to slide taking the purse with it. So you have to be careful where you put it down.

It also has a thin leather strip interwoven through the chain. If she had the purse on when entering the home, the killer could have used it against her, imo. (He used Barry’s belt, according to KD.)

Photo from:
Everything we know about the murders of billionaires Barry and Honey Sherman


Photo of the WOC so you can see the chain. It’s very sturdy, but the clasp tends to pop open easily.



Classic Wallet on Chain, lambskin & silver-tone metal, black - CHANEL

 

[juli99]

Wondering how other women exit their vehicles to enter the home for the evening. When I arrive in my driveway at the end of a day, I gather whatever I do not want to leave (anything of value) in the car and take it inside, be it hand gloves on the front seat, my purse, my laptop bag, my shopping bag if I stopped on the way home. It would be rare that I did not have something to take, purse and keys for sure, my hands always have something in them as I enter the home.

I do not usually have my phone in my hand. I usually put it in a pocket or in my purse and or laptop bag. I have my keys in my hand and whatever I took from the car. I step in the door and immediately start to remove shoes, even before I put anything down - (HS entry was into a mudroom area so maybe shoes were not removed immediately) - So if it were me that was accosted as I entered my home, I would need time to grab my phone from a pocket or purse etc

Someone has asked the question already where is HS's shopping bag? it could have still been in the car we do not know but if it is nowhere to be found why would perp take it? memento?

Adding to that, where are her keys, where is her purse? where were these located? Both were found with coats on, we assume shoes on. were keys in their pockets? still, where is HS's purse.

Makes me wonder was the underground garage entry to the home locked? did BS need keys to enter the house, if so again where are his keys, he dropped his gloves and papers but no keys? he just walked in the door (we think) he has his winter coat and shoes (we think) on, drops what he has in his hands - not his phone (that was found in the pool area) - maybe he did drop it and the perp picked it up and took it to the pool area? but no mention of keys? BS could have pocketed them as he opened the door.

Starting to get an impression these items were left as red herrings or reporting on these subjects has been misconstrued by the media. And IMO rightfully so, LE will not correct poor media reporting if it does not hurt them or the investigation. Again IMO a family will step in at times to correct the media reporting (hire your own investigative team to find out what happened because LE is not sharing any info with anyone and able to leak details that you want the public to know) but LE time is better spent to observe the reactions to these misconceptions than spend time correcting them.

My phone is in my purse 99% of the time when I enter the house. If someone attacked me coming into the house, it would be a struggle to find my phone quickly in my purse.

I was surprised to hear that Barry's phone was in the pool room. Neither phone location makes any sense to me really. But I'm not sure what would make sense. I wonder where cell phones are normally found when left at a murder scene.

 

[ldlager]

Do you mean the killer put it there? Or she somehow threw it into the bathroom?

Could be either I would think. Or mybe it slipped out of her hand as she was running.

 

[ldlager]

It would be very informative to know when the NW was seen entering that area without video footage. We know that Honey's last phone call was at 6:21 pm. She had her phone in her hand at that time. Sometime after that it ended up in the powder room. Where was the NW at 6:21 pm?

"The last phone call Honey made was at 6:21 p.m. on Dec. 13 and preliminary data obtained from her iPhone showed several missed calls on Dec. 14 and Dec. 15."

Police 'committed' to bringing closure, justice to Sherman family, cops say on 3rd anniversary of billionaire couple's murder

Yes, but we don't know where HS was at 6.21. Still at the mall perhaps? Driving? Home? Somewhere else?