Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #3

[matou]

Everyone's favourite Joe Warmington with his newest article on the case:

http://torontosun.com/news/local-ne...investigation-expands-to-neighbouring-streets

 

[otto]

I wish we knew what there interactions were like in the week running up to their deaths. I don’t really understand going to meet your architect if you planned to kill yourself and murder your wife, why would you waste your time going to a meeting about a house you knew would likely never be built?

I doubt this is a premeditated murder. It's quite possible that something that happened at the meeting with the architect caused such a conflict that when they arrived at home he confronted her, he took off his belt and strangled her. After realizing what he did, he had a few choices:

• call police, report the "heat of passion" murder and watch his reputation as philanthropist transform overnight to nothing more than murderer,
• leave a note, confess to the murder, and commit suicide; or
• stage the scene to appear as a double murder to protect his reputation.

Early information is that she was killed in a different part of the house and moved the pool. With the belt around her neck, he could have dragged her to the pool area. General observations by forum members is that when the bodies were removed from the house, one was flat, the other was not. It takes about 36 hours for rigour mortise to leave the body. If she was killed on Wednesday evening, her body would be limp at noon on Friday. If he committed suicide closer to Thursday morning, he would still be stiff. This would be one factor to support the murder suicide theory.

Some have suggested that criminals may have been in the house, killed the wife, and then kept the husband alive for extortion purposes. That makes no sense because a threat against the wife is the leverage to force the husband to do something. If she's already dead, there is no leverage.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

I think the question was, how do we know how long it takes because dead people can't talk?

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Probably from experiments that we really don't want to know about.

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[tarabull]

Everyone's favourite Joe Warmington with his newest article on the case:

http://torontosun.com/news/local-ne...investigation-expands-to-neighbouring-streets

Anyone want to take a walk??? https://goo.gl/maps/SXeapUo6WFC2

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

I don't know the answer, but there was a time when people were hanged for crimes and likely it was noted how long it took.

jmo

But an execution by hanging isn't quite the same. Properly done, an execution hanging will break the person's neck.

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[pamelado2]

With knot the same as you tie the leather cinch. Almost like tying a tie.

But then what? The belt wouldn't be lined up correctly to buckle

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[RAISINISBACK]

I doubt this is a premeditated murder. It's quite possible that something that happened at the meeting with the architect caused such a conflict that when they arrived at home he confronted her, he took off his belt and strangled her. After realizing what he did, he had a few choices:

• call police, report the "heat of passion" murder and watch his reputation as philanthropist transform overnight to nothing more than murderer,
• leave a note, confess to the murder, and commit suicide; or
• stage the scene to appear as a double murder to protect his reputation.

Early information is that she was killed in a different part of the house and moved the pool. With the belt around her neck, he could have dragged her to the pool area. General observations by forum members is that when the bodies were removed from the house, one was flat, the other was not. It takes about 36 hours for rigour mortise to leave the body. If she was killed on Wednesday evening, her body would be limp at noon on Friday. If he committed suicide closer to Thursday morning, he would still be stiff. This would be one factor to support the murder suicide theory.

Some have suggested that criminals may have been in the house, killed the wife, and then kept the husband alive for extortion purposes. That makes no sense because a threat against the wife is the leverage to force the husband to do something. If she's already dead, there is no leverage.

If extortion was the case there would be a huge withdrawal of money from a bank account I would think.

JMO

 

[JayFriend]

So how would the belt be fastened to the railing? Tied? It's not exactly easy to tie a tight knot with leather. As a rider, I have a lot of leather and even a thin leather leadrope is hard to tie to something.

A simple loop around the neck and railing, pulled tight. So long as it compresses the jugular veins, it will result in death. But at this point we don't even know if they died hanging from the railing or were just hung up for display. It's been reported by many sources that HS was killed elsewhere.

 

[A Widow]

I've worked for decades in the North, where the preferred method of suicide is by hanging from children to elders. The Sherman scenario is staged, whether Barry did it or professional killers. The police have seen a lot scenarios but not one like this before. What might seem obvious at first glance eg murder-suicide may not hold in this case.

Barry doesn't sound depressed either. He sounds like his usual workaholic self.

If it was homicide how did the killers get in and out?
What was on the roof? Had work been done on the roof recently? Were there security camera wires up there someone could have cut?

 

[JDG]

Anyone want to take a walk??? https://goo.gl/maps/SXeapUo6WFC2

what are you looking for on your walk? curious.

Nice homes.

 

[JDG]

I've worked for decades in the North, where the preferred method of suicide is by hanging from children to elders. The Sherman scenario is staged, whether Barry did it or professional killers. The police have seen a lot scenarios but not one like this before. What might seem obvious at first glance eg murder-suicide may not hold in this case.

Barry doesn't sound depressed either. He sounds like his usual workaholic self.

If it was homicide how did the killers get in and out?
What was on the roof? Had work been done on the roof recently? Were there security camera wires up there someone could have cut?

Every time someone asks about the roof, I can't help but think of the pizza on the roof, Breaking Bad. I know, its not funny at all but thats what I think of.

 

[otto]

Not only that but this guy was a BILLIONAIRE. One of the truly elite of the entire planet.

This was not John and Patsy Ramsey. This guy is like Scrooge McDuck rich!

If he purposefully or accidentally killed his wife he would have access to professional "fixers" to make a problem like that go away.

I don't think so. In Canada, the law is the law, regardless of wealth. He would have been arrested, charged, and his lawyers would have had to argue "heat of passion". That's typically a 10 year sentence. At best, he could be deemed mentally incapable at the moment of committing murder, and that would have earned him a few years in a psychiatric institution. Either way, his reputation would have been completely destroyed. Today, his family is doing everything they can to preserve his reputation as a philanthropist rather than a murderer, including hiring a team of lawyers, a retired detective and whoever else they need to keep the husband's reputation as clean as possible.

 

[Jennifer17]

I've worked for decades in the North, where the preferred method of suicide is by hanging from children to elders. The Sherman scenario is staged, whether Barry did it or professional killers. The police have seen a lot scenarios but not one like this before. What might seem obvious at first glance eg murder-suicide may not hold in this case.

Barry doesn't sound depressed either. He sounds like his usual workaholic self.

If it was homicide how did the killers get in and out?
What was on the roof? Had work been done on the roof recently? Were there security camera wires up there someone could have cut?

BBM. I would imagine to see if anyone could have accessed the house through the skylights.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Anyone want to take a walk??? https://goo.gl/maps/SXeapUo6WFC2

I got lost. Now my legs hurt and I am out of breath.

On a side note. This is an upper scale neighborhood? Looks like a middle class neighborhood to me. In fact some of the houses and yards look like lower class neighborhood.

We have many middle class neighborhoods just like this in the nearest city from me. Usually the people who live in them earn around a 100 to 200 thousand a year, not much for this day and time really. But definitely neighborhood committees would be all over some of those residents in that additions for those cluttered yards.

 

[JayFriend]

If it's true their legs were straight out in front of them, then it was murder. I'm sure we'll find all this out after the 1st. Hopefully.

The latest report from Joe Warmington of the Toronto Sun makes a note of it. Lots of good information.

http://torontosun.com/entertainment...inger-about-deaths-of-barry-and-honey-sherman

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

My problem with a double murder is why now? He hasn't been active in the day-to-day business operations for several years. Why not ten or twenty years ago when he still was actively running the company? I mean, that would be like someone assassinating Jimmy Carter. What's the point?

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[matou]

I got lost. Now my legs hurt and I am out of breath.

On a side note. This is an upper scale neighborhood? Looks like a middle class neighborhood to me. In fact some of the houses and yards look like lower class neighborhood.

We have many middle class neighborhoods just like this in the nearest city from me. Usually the people who live in them earn around a 100 to 200 thousand a year, not much for this day and time really. But definitely neighborhood committees would be all over some of those residents in that additions for those cluttered yards.

Welcome to Toronto where the shantiest of homes cost around 1 million. These would be in the millions based on neighbourhood alone.

 

[Jasper52]

The latest report from Joe Warmington of the Toronto Sun makes a note of it. Lots of good information.

http://torontosun.com/entertainment...inger-about-deaths-of-barry-and-honey-sherman

One interesting comment under that article about Teva.

 

[AllyJane]

My problem with a double murder is why now? He hasn't been active in the day-to-day business operations for several years. Why not ten or twenty years ago when he still was actively running the company? I mean, that would be like someone assassinating Jimmy Carter. What's the point?

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His "orphaned" cousins just lost their lawsuit against him in September. We don't really have enough info on the people in his business or personal life to make that judgement but I am not sure he was a billionaire or as successful 20 years ago.

Also, what if both HS and BS were being held in an attempted kidnapping or something similar and she managed to get away and the alleged murderers caught her (not hard to catch a 70 year old arthritic woman) and killed her by strangulation in panic. At that point maybe then they had no choice but to kill him. Just throwing out another scenario that includes her being killed in another part of the house and both found in the pool area.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Welcome to Toronto where the shantiest of homes cost around 1 million. These would be in the millions based on neighbourhood alone.

Canada is a nice country. I have been through it from Edmonton to the Yukon.