Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #3

[Snoop Sister]

No if this was rage, things would not have been this clean and neat.

He had time to become rational again as it was stated by TPS that it was believed Honey was killed first in another location. We don’t know how much time passed between the deaths. Could have been an hour, a couple of hours or a day, that info has not been released.

Like I said I was going to give some bazaar speculation like many have already.

 

[Grey-St]

No matter where the hangings took place in the home, people would still think it was a hit or a double murder that was staged. Some pretty far out thinking on here.

It's really not that far out thinking. This entire case is so bizarre, that anything is possible, especially with the limited information we have. He made quite a few enemies over the years, and it's difficult to reconcile why BS would murder HS.

I remain on the fence.

 

[matou]

I helped to find potential enemies by looking up supreme court filings. When people start saying the media is lying to the general public for decades, it's pretty *far out thinking* imo. Take it or leave it. Watch the first reports on the scene from Dec 15th. The police don't look too worried.

 

[CoolJ]

To stop the natural instinct to rip things away from ones throat. Prevents the one being murdered from fighting as well.

hmmm yes that is what everyone has been saying, but...... what prevents them from just standing up?

 

[Jennifer17]

It's really not that far out thinking. This entire case is so bizarre, that anything is possible, especially with the limited information we have. He made quite a few enemies over the years, and it's difficult to reconcile why BS would murder HS.

I remain on the fence.

The case that it was double murder isn't far out thinking, but some of the reasons speculated are, IMO.

 

[dotr]

Possibly a re post, fwiw.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9757351

Arch Kriminol. 1998 Jul-Aug;202(1-2):17-28.

[Simulated suicide by hanging after homicidal strangulation].
[Article in German]
Mallach HJ[SUP]1[/SUP], Pollak S.
Author information
Abstract
Homicides by hanging and the simulation of suicide by hanging a victim previously killed or made unable to resist by other means are regarded as extremely rare events, although especially in German forensic literature cases of this kind were repeatedly reported. The paper adds another example to the number of observations published so far: A 23-year-old student strangled his 58-year-old father with an electric cable until he ceased to show any signs of life. Then he hanged the victim at the handrail of the staircase with a running noose. From the forensic point of view the following clues pointed to homicide: presence of massive signs of facial congestion in spite of the "typical" situation of hanging, horizontal ligature mark in addition to the noose mark, skin injuries at the head and the upper extremities, traces of blood near the place where the body was found. The case history presented emphasizes again that for differential diagnosis the possibility of a dissimulated homicide has to be considered in all cases where a body is found suspended.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14669684

A case of suicidal hanging staged as homicide.

Adair TW[SUP]1[/SUP], Dobersen MJ.

Author information


Abstract

Suicides staged as homicides are rarely encountered by crime scene investigators. The case of one such staged homicide is presented in which the victim used restraints during a hanging. No other cases of suicidal hangings staged as homicides could be found in the forensic literature. Similar cases should be reported so additional data can be gained from these deaths to help reveal indicators of suicide rather than homicide.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14669684

rch Med Sadowej Kryminol. 2002 Oct-Dec;52(4):371-9.[Cases of hanging with bound limbs--suicide, homicide or accident].

[Article in Polish]

Krzyzanowski M[SUP]1[/SUP], Jankowski Z, Pieśniak D, Wilmanowska A.
Author information


Abstract

In the paper 6 cases of suicidal hanging and 1 case of accidental hanging were presented; in each case limbs of the victim were bound. These hangings always cause a suspicion of homicide, therefore the forensic specialist should pay particular attention to them, especially during the crime scene examination, they should also be carefully investigated by police and the public prosecutor's office.

 

[spanishshara]

Finally got around to reading this. http://nationalpost.com/opinion/chr...-screwed-up-investigation-into-sherman-deaths

For the most part I do agree.

 

[human]

If you haven't read it, part of Sen. Linda Frum's tribute made at the service:

http://www.macleans.ca/news/linda-frum-pays-tribute-to-barry-and-honey-sherman/

Amazing. They spent their money on others as some very rich do as opposed to others that spend their gold on themselves. They sound truly amazing

 

[Jealoushe]

If one buys the double suicide or murder/suicide scenario, they could have hung the belts/ropes from the railings, secured their arms with the jackets and then simply laid facedown placing heads into belt. the belts would obviously have been set to constrict their throats but gravity might do that....... It would explain the straight legged posture. I believe thats how L'Wren did it, from a doorknob.

Hadn't pictured that, but makes sense. Other than the reports they were in a sitting position.

I helped to find potential enemies by looking up supreme court filings. When people start saying the media is lying to the general public for decades, it's pretty *far out thinking* imo. Take it or leave it. Watch the first reports on the scene from Dec 15th. The police don't look too worried.

Supreme court filings are not MSM. The court system can also be corrupt, not as likely in Canada thankfully, but recently dozens of Supreme court judges have been made to step down for covering up child abuse rings and protecting elites in the USA.

The released information recently from the FBI files proved MSM provided false narratives for many things over many years, and that was back in the 50s/60s. People don't want to believe the media lies - but it does. Questioning that isn't far out thinking, it's being aware. Accepting everything at face value is being walmart conscious.

 

[Tortoise]

What does walmart conscious mean?

 

[Jealoushe]

Finally got around to reading this. http://nationalpost.com/opinion/chr...-screwed-up-investigation-into-sherman-deaths

For the most part I do agree.

I read this article and I wish I could find it, it was an update to ten cases on Unsolved Mysteries. Many of the cases LE thought it was family, friends, ex's, suicide etc....but years later some were random acts, gang violence, etc. It was a bunch of cases where everyone thought what happened was obvious, but in the end those people were wrong. It took amazing detective work and tips to find the killers.

Point being, nothing is ever as simple as it seems. An open mind is needed.

 

[Jennifer17]

Hadn't pictured that, but makes sense. Other than the reports they were in a sitting position.



Supreme court filings are not MSM. The court system can also be corrupt, not as likely in Canada thankfully, but recently dozens of Supreme court judges have been made to step down for covering up child abuse rings and protecting elites in the USA.

The released information recently from the FBI files proved MSM provided false narratives for many things over many years, and that was back in the 50s/60s. People don't want to believe the media lies - but it does. Questioning that isn't far out thinking, it's being aware. Accepting everything at face value is being walmart conscious.

BBM. Do you have a link for that?

 

[dotr]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/rep...man-apotex-heirs-uncertainty/article37450918/

 

[JayFriend]

Must be really well connected if she can afford to call TPS a leaky ship!

Christie Blatchford has been an award winning columnist and reporter for years and knows the system inside out.

 

[juli99]

Amazing. They spent their money on others as some very rich do as opposed to others that spend their gold on themselves. They sound truly amazing

That clip makes it sound like he was being dragged around by her. I wonder whether he was dreading retirement.

Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk

 

[Hazel]

<modsnip>

The Toronto Sun is not considered a tabloid per se. Here is the correct link to that article, it says "news" in the URL.

http://torontosun.com/news/local-ne...inger-about-deaths-of-barry-and-honey-sherman

Police have been extremely thorough. The roof of the Sherman&#8217;s 12,000-square-foot mansion has been behind yellow tape since Dec. 15.

It has been surveyed with the help of a Toronto Fire ladder and bucket. The storm sewers have been swept, as has every inch of the home with modern forensic equipment.

The vehicles were removed and surveillance equipment in the house and neighbourhood has been secured. Sources also say there was a primary, or perhaps, secondary scene inside the home which has also been studied.

There is so much that remains unknown. But what is known is that Barry and Honey died of &#8220;ligature neck compression.&#8221;

The Shermans were found hanging with men&#8217;s belts around their necks in the pool area of their mansion. They were in a sitting position with their legs out straight. Sources describe them has having jackets pulled down over their arms and pulled behind their backs.

 

[JayFriend]

And in this scenario, what would be the point of the arms constricted in the jacket?

If this was a hit, leaving the victims on display, having the arms constricted emphasizes it's not a double suicide.

 

[human]

Makes total sense. The railing looked to be about four feet off the ground. So in a kneeling position he fastened then belt around his neck, the rolled the jacket behind his arms. The jacket is crucial because the natural reaction would be to grab the railing and pull yourself up. Once all was set, he kicked his feet forward to a sitting position, and so long as his butt didn't contact the ground, the weight of his body would constrict him.

How long is a man’s belt?

 

[kiwi50]

If it is murder-suicide, it would be my belief that it was unintentional. Something perhaps happened in a fit of anger. With all the other bizarre speculations out there...I will give one as well. Perhaps Honey was having an affair (it is not unusual for extra marital activities) and Barry found out and wanted her to end the affair. Honey was very good looking, youthful in her appearance, described as very outgoing and her husband worked long hours. Being a very social person, I would imagine she would have made many male friends of her own. And who exactly was the trainer who was trying to get into the house when TPS had the house surrounded?

That was my first thought, i think beneath the surface the marriage was lacking in affection, Barry seemed more like her child.
Sad that he even took his briefcase when watching or playing golf with the family. That’s something I’ve never seen!
Honeys sister would be able to shed a lot of information on so much.

 

[Hazel]

I find it quite likely that we won't hear anything more about this from the police. $4.8 billion can buy a lot of silence. We will likely start hearing about questionable findings from the family's private investigator on a regular basis. Classic case of controlling the media, then flooding it with your own narrative. In six months most people in this city will believe the Shermans were murdered and the police botched the case. In return John Tory will get a big fat campaign donation.

Absolutely agree with you, that's exactly what I have been thinking, kind of re-write history. MOO JMO