CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #24

[chimpface]

I don’t understand what you’re getting at. None of us were present when this video was filmed so none of us know if Honey is out of frame or perhaps is the individual walking in the background. If you have relevant information please state it directly and explain what you think is significant.

I’d like to be convinced that this video is significant but right now I’m not catching what you’re throwing.

Talking in absolute riddles

 

[WINDSOR]

Today is December 10, 2024. Soon it will be the seventh anniversary of the Sherman's deaths. I went to the Toronto Police Service web site, and the last mention, is a news conference from December 16. 2019.

It would be nice if the TPS could hold a news conference and give an update on the status of the case.

Maybe only to say '"We got nothing, we are stumped, but there is a $35 million reward available."

 

[fadedglitter]

New story in the Star today, but there is no new information in it whatsoever.

 

[newsnerd]

New story in the Star today, but there is no new information in it whatsoever.

There are 2 new podcast episodes by Donovan that were released today. Hopefully some new information will be shared on those. About to listen now.

 

[fadedglitter]

There are 2 new podcast episodes by Donovan that were released today. Hopefully some new information will be shared on those. About to listen now.

Link? I’m guessing it’s just a rehashing as he doesn’t have new information unsealed yet but I always want to check.

Updated: found them.

Gift Bags and Blood Stains Part 1: The last hour of Barry and Honey Sherman’s lives

Kevin Donovan tries to understand what happened in the last hour of Barry and Honey Sherman’s lives and looks again at the police mistakes that led them down the murder-suicide

www.thestar.com

Gift Bags and Blood Stains Part 2: Honey and Barry Sherman’s killers’ plan was to kill them both

Kevin Donovan uses what he knows about the killings to develop his theory of what the killers were after

www.thestar.com

 

[MerlinFalcon]

I'm not a subscriber but saw the first few lines. Did we know that the police didn't ask the family etc. for alibis?

 

[MerlinFalcon]

There are 2 new podcast episodes by Donovan that were released today. Hopefully some new information will be shared on those. About to listen now.

I only see one on spotify. Do they release them to subscribers first?

 

[dotr]

Toronto police skipped ‘Homicide 101’ and never sought alibis from family and friends of murdered billionaires Barry and Honey Sherman

Investigative sources tell the Star the lack of alibis is likely why homicide detectives have been unable to clear any of the many “persons of interest” suspected of having a

www.thestar.com

 

[fadedglitter]

New stuff in episode 1:

KD thinks it’s a coincidence that Barry wore the belt that day for the first time that day. KD does not know if the other belt was the one used on Honey. KD thinks this means the staging was a last-minute decision, not planned ahead of time.

Honey gave Sheila the Thursday and Friday off on Wednesday, the day of the murders. Honey spoke these words aloud to Sheila. KD thinks this is more proof that someone knew their schedules.

KD thinks it’s significant that Jack was out of town. He thinks the killers knew about Jack’s trip. KD also thinks the killers knew Mary would be away.

KD thinks Barry would have used pharmaceuticals to kill himself if that was his intention.

KD thinks it was significant that the meeting was changed to Apotex, because it gave the killers time to get into the house and wait for the Shermans. KD thinks it’s significant that Honey said something that made Brennan think Barry had to go home early because she was attacked almost immediately when she arrived. If Barry had arrived later, the killers would have needed to wait longer, an unacceptable risk. KD thinks someone lured Barry home early. How? Likely a phone call or in-person chat. Barry’s unsealed phone logs don’t show anything that stands out as supporting this. KD thinks maybe it’s still sealed.

KD doesn’t know why Honey took money out of the ATM. Presumably she already had money in her wallet as ATM limits are lower than the amount she had.

KD has found nothing to support the theory that someone got into Honey’s car at the mall.

KD thinks Honey placed her items calmly on the kitchen table. KD thinks it’s possible she tried to make an emergency call with the SOS function on her iPhone.

KD thinks a bag was put over Honey’s head to keep her blood from getting on the killers after one of them swiped at her face.

This is thin gruel indeed. I’ll get to episode 2 later today but anyone who has been following KD’s reporting already knows his theory.

 

[ldlager]

The tracking and transmission data for the phone numbers of these individuals have all assisted in providing likely alibis for the persons of interest,” police wrote in one of the court documents that details their investigation. “The tracking and transmission data have assisted in dispelling investigative theories involving the following people,” the documents reads, leading into a paragraph that’s still under seal because police say to reveal it would hurt their investigation.

“The police documents do not deal with the possibility that a person might not be in possession of their phone at the time the tracking data provided the alibi.”

RBBM. Simply unbelievable that many POI were apparently never even asked for their alibis. That is just basic police investigation procedure.OMG how are we to believe that this case will ever be solved?

 

[MerlinFalcon]

I know her devices weren't password protected but I wonder if the house was bugged.

 

[fadedglitter]

Episode 2 new stuff:

Barry had gotten into an accident on the 400 highway and dented his silver Mustang. Honey had hit a deer in her SUV and got major damage fixed for $5000. Barry’s repairs cost $2000.

KD thinks the person who lured Barry home suggested he park underground. KD hasn’t figured out how this was accomplished.

KD thinks the killers saw Barry’s headlights through the glass block wall. He thinks they positioned Honey on the floor next to the door from the garage, and Barry was so surprised he dropped everything he was carrying. Then they grabbed him.

KD thinks the fact Barry’s items were left on the floor indicates the killers only cared about killing the Shermans. They were not interested in the papers he was carrying, which could have contained corporate secrets. They also weren’t interested in Honey’s cash.

The call from Doug Hendler at 9:01 was about arranging a mortgage.

KD thinks maybe there was a conversation before the strangling.

Honey had four tiny marks on her neck, like dimples in a square pattern similar to the end of a cable tie.

The crime scene photos show faint drag marks leading to Honey’s body. Barry is more upright because his back is against a railing support. KD does not think Barry’s jacket is pulled back to prevent the use of his arms. He thinks it is bunched up because of the way Barry is positioned. His shirt-tails are loose from his pants. KD thinks the killers put Honey’s shoes back on her because they would have come off.

The right side of Honey’s face and her right ear are covered in blood from the blow to her face. The dried blood is mottled like a plastic bag was placed against it and then taken away. There is also blood on Honey’s blue jacket near her right elbow which is resting on the pool deck. It appears to come from that spot on the pool deck, right below her head so it may be blood from her head. There is also blood on Barry’s right pant leg near the ankle. Maybe a killer had blood on his hand when he moved Barry into place. Finally there is a bloody smudge on the railing near where Honey’s neck is tied. KD assumes it is all Honey’s blood.

The belts have different knots. Barry’s is looped once, Honey’s is looped three times around the railing. They are tied in opposite ways. Maybe one was tied by a right-handed person and the other by a left-handed person. The belt around Honey’s neck has a pattern in the leather and is much longer than the one around Barry’s neck. KD says it is like a snakeskin pattern.

Elise Stern found the side door from the basement to the patio was unlocked. The private investigation team found the front door lock was broken in a way that would have allowed it to be opened with most keys or even a screwdriver. This may have happened years before and been widely known.

KD believes the killings were 30 minutes apart. KD thinks there were two killers inside with a lookout outside. The lookout was the walking man. KD is certain of this. KD thinks the two killers arrived through the backyard after coming from the house directly north of the Shermans. They knew there was no video coverage. Then they walked through the unlocked door from the patio. Maybe they had been in the house recently and left it unlocked, or maybe they had a key. Then they waited, leaving no forensic traces.

KD is certain the walking man is not the stocky older man he appears to be in the video. He is younger and slender and has added a limp and changed his appearance, knowing there are cameras. KD thinks this man had two jobs: to alert the killers the Shermans were arriving, and to watch for any activity in the neighbourhood the killers would need to know about as they escaped. KD thinks handheld radios were used.

A third episode is on the way. Promo: lines from the rude email Barry sent Honey a few weeks before the murders.

 

[hexicon]

@fadedglitter Thanks for sharing the podcast summaries, since I can't access them.

Interesting to hear that KD thinks the WM was the lookout and not the actual killer. I've often thought that the WM disguised his silhouette (and any equipment) by wearing a backpack in front and zipping his coat over it.

My personal theory has always been a contracted killing by an ex- Mossad, special forces, FSB/SVR type. I realize that sounds fictive but due to the Shermans' wealth and prominence I think this is a case where an outlier theory is reasonable. Also, I don't think any of the suspects in the Shermans' circle would have been physically or mentally capable of committing the crime themselves.

Although I would expect that a trained person wouldn't have trouble killing two seniors on their own, it also seemed odd to me that a professional would commit the crime alone. For that reason, I think KD's theory about the team seems reasonable, but we have no known evidence of anyone other than the WM. I wonder what KD knows that makes him conclude there were two other killers not (known to be) caught on video.

IIRC in other comments KD has said that he thought the person who procured the murders was present. To me, that seems unlikely. Again, I wish I knew what made him think that.

 

[fadedglitter]

IIRC in other comments KD has said that he thought the person who procured the murders was present. To me, that seems unlikely. Again, I wish I knew what made him think that.

MOO: KD is working backwards from his preferred suspect, who is not special forces. He bends all evidence to fit his theory.

 

[newsnerd]

I only see one on spotify. Do they release them to subscribers first?

I’m a subscriber with The Star, so I think it’s released there first.

 

[ldlager]

@fadedglitter Thanks for sharing the podcast summaries, since I can't access them.

Interesting to hear that KD thinks the WM was the lookout and not the actual killer. I've often thought that the WM disguised his silhouette (and any equipment) by wearing a backpack in front and zipping his coat over it.

My personal theory has always been a contracted killing by an ex- Mossad, special forces, FSB/SVR type. I realize that sounds fictive but due to the Shermans' wealth and prominence I think this is a case where an outlier theory is reasonable. Also, I don't think any of the suspects in the Shermans' circle would have been physically or mentally capable of committing the crime themselves.

Although I would expect that a trained person wouldn't have trouble killing two seniors on their own, it also seemed odd to me that a professional would commit the crime alone. For that reason, I think KD's theory about the team seems reasonable, but we have no known evidence of anyone other than the WM. I wonder what KD knows that makes him conclude there were two other killers not (known to be) caught on video.

IIRC in other comments KD has said that he thought the person who procured the murders was present. To me, that seems unlikely. Again, I wish I knew what made him think that.

IS AP left handed, or right handed?

 

[ldlager]

Episode 2 new stuff:

Barry had gotten into an accident on the 400 highway and dented his silver Mustang. Honey had hit a deer in her SUV and got major damage fixed for $5000. Barry’s repairs cost $2000.

KD thinks the person who lured Barry home suggested he park underground. KD hasn’t figured out how this was accomplished.

KD thinks the killers saw Barry’s headlights through the glass block wall. He thinks they positioned Honey on the floor next to the door from the garage, and Barry was so surprised he dropped everything he was carrying. Then they grabbed him.

KD thinks the fact Barry’s items were left on the floor indicates the killers only cared about killing the Shermans. They were not interested in the papers he was carrying, which could have contained corporate secrets. They also weren’t interested in Honey’s cash.

The call from Doug Hendler at 9:01 was about arranging a mortgage.

KD thinks maybe there was a conversation before the strangling.

Honey had four tiny marks on her neck, like dimples in a square pattern similar to the end of a cable tie.

The crime scene photos show faint drag marks leading to Honey’s body. Barry is more upright because his back is against a railing support. KD does not think Barry’s jacket is pulled back to prevent the use of his arms. He thinks it is bunched up because of the way Barry is positioned. His shirt-tails are loose from his pants. KD thinks the killers put Honey’s shoes back on her because they would have come off.

The right side of Honey’s face and her right ear are covered in blood from the blow to her face. The dried blood is mottled like a plastic bag was placed against it and then taken away. There is also blood on Honey’s blue jacket near her right elbow which is resting on the pool deck. It appears to come from that spot on the pool deck, right below her head so it may be blood from her head. There is also blood on Barry’s right pant leg near the ankle. Maybe a killer had blood on his hand when he moved Barry into place. Finally there is a bloody smudge on the railing near where Honey’s neck is tied. KD assumes it is all Honey’s blood.

The belts have different knots. Barry’s is looped once, Honey’s is looped three times around the railing. They are tied in opposite ways. Maybe one was tied by a right-handed person and the other by a left-handed person. The belt around Honey’s neck has a pattern in the leather and is much longer than the one around Barry’s neck. KD says it is like a snakeskin pattern.

Elise Stern found the side door from the basement to the patio was unlocked. The private investigation team found the front door lock was broken in a way that would have allowed it to be opened with most keys or even a screwdriver. This may have happened years before and been widely known.

KD believes the killings were 30 minutes apart. KD thinks there were two killers inside with a lookout outside. The lookout was the walking man. KD is certain of this. KD thinks the two killers arrived through the backyard after coming from the house directly north of the Shermans. They knew there was no video coverage. Then they walked through the unlocked door from the patio. Maybe they had been in the house recently and left it unlocked, or maybe they had a key. Then they waited, leaving no forensic traces.

KD is certain the walking man is not the stocky older man he appears to be in the video. He is younger and slender and has added a limp and changed his appearance, knowing there are cameras. KD thinks this man had two jobs: to alert the killers the Shermans were arriving, and to watch for any activity in the neighbourhood the killers would need to know about as they escaped. KD thinks handheld radios were used.

A third episode is on the way. Promo: lines from the rude email Barry sent Honey a few weeks before the murders.

Doesn’t a blow to the right side of Honeys face make it more likely that her attacker was left handed?

 

[fadedglitter]

Doesn’t a blow to the right side of Honeys face make it more likely that her attacker was left handed?

Yes.

 

[newsnerd]

IS AP left handed, or right handed?

Yes! That was an interesting piece of info; police thinking that one killer was left handed, the other killer was right handed based on how the knots were tied on both Honey and Barry. Would be very interesting to see who in their world is left handed. I’m left handed and there are so many things I do that I’m unaware being unique to lefties. It’s only when someone points it out that I realize I am doing something differently than right-handers

 

[newsnerd]

Another piece of info that stood out was the fact that FM couldn’t initially recall which day they returned from Japan…… I understand if the trip was the year prior, but come on. You don’t forget which day you arrived back home, jet lag or no jet lag. I’ve flown to and from Australia. You don’t forget that info in the days upon your return.