CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #24

[fadedglitter]

I don't know, if it had to be "broader criminal activity"? Could it also have been a private commitment in some form, maybe including large sums of money?

It could be anything involving crime where the penalty is so severe, offering evidence in a years-old murder case would benefit the person charged. The Crown doesn’t cut plea deals with murderers or people who cover up for murderers just because they owe money to bad people.

Obviously Jack has no insight into the investigation; he’s guessing like everyone else. But unlike most others, he’s seen the financial records and he personally interacts with the people amateur sleuths most commonly suspect. He doesn’t think it’s any of those people. He knows the financial records go into the shadows.

I continue to think “follow the money” doesn’t mean the heirs. I think it means Barry’s complex financial dealings with known criminals and fraudsters. Whether the murderer is one of those people or their associates is a different matter, but amateurs are too quick to assume Jack meant the heirs when he has never suggested the perpetrator is someone he knows personally.

 

[WINDSOR]

The hunt for the killer(s) often goes in circles. Early on it was proposed that the Sherman's were killed because of business deals gone bad or business deals with bad people. One prominent consideration was I believe The One, a troubled condo project that Barry was involved in for a short period of time.

However it appeared that since the murder scene was staged in a way that did not signify or tie into any revenge or organized crime murder scenario, many people discounted the bad business/organized crime theory.

One other factor that should be considered is that Apotex maintained a security department, that should have been aware of external threats to Barry. Probably the security department would not be
very concerned with Barry's friends or family.

So the TPS has been on this case for seven years plus, and it seems they spend a lot of time trying to have details of the investigation suppressed. This could be for several reasons.

1) It is police policy not to release any information.
2) They know who did it, and do not want the criminals aware of this fact until charges are laid.
3) They have no idea what happened, no idea how to solve this case, and are just waiting for somebody to give them a tip, that will break the case wide open.

MOO

 

[dotr]

By Paul Northcott rbbm fwiw..

https://rcmp.ca/en/gazette/just-facts-organized-crime

• ''There are more than 2,000 Organized Crime Groups (OCG) operating in Canada.''
• More than half have interprovincial and international connections with links to 77 countries.
• It is suspected that many members of organized crime groups are involved in areas of the public sector. Family connections, romantic relationships, and monetary gain appear to be the principal factors motivating corruption in the sector.
• A total of 29% of OCG are reported to be involved in money laundering.
• Private sector businesses are also exploited by OCG to launder their proceeds of crime. Money launders disguise the origins of the money they make from illegal activities by moving the funds through, often complex, financial transactions to make the money appear legitimately earned.
• ''Outlaw motorcycle gangs often take part in legitimate charitable events and other public relations efforts to portray themselves positively.''

https://www.europol.europa.eu/cms/sites/default/files/documents/europol_spotlight_-the_use_of_violence_by_organised_crime_groups.pdf

''Law enforcement challenges Members of organised crime groups apply techniques, tactics and procedures to ensure backstopping and lead investigations to dead-end (known as counter measures in the law enforcement community) In some feuds, homicides or attempted homicides happen in different countries which enhances the complexity of investigation efforts In a reactive investigation of a homicide, the link to the motive and the underlying criminal activity is not always apparent A homicide seen as an isolated event has no clear cross-border/international dimension; countries do not consistently share information with international partners and Europol; Increased mobility of members, local support networks and availability of means to perpetrate the attack (firearms/explosives, surveillance equipment for target reconnaissance, etc.) complicate reactive investigations Hired assassins often remain under the radar as they are not a part of the organised crime group.''

 

[fadedglitter]

(Snip)

So the TPS has been on this case for seven years plus, and it seems they spend a lot of time trying to have details of the investigation suppressed. This could be for several reasons.

1) It is police policy not to release any information.
2) They know who did it, and do not want the criminals aware of this fact until charges are laid.
3) They have no idea what happened, no idea how to solve this case, and are just waiting for somebody to give them a tip, that will break the case wide open.

MOO

They’ve said it is #1.

They don’t know who did it, and recently Yim has sworn an affidavit saying there is nothing else they could disclose that would bring in credible information from a member of the public.

 

[FromGermany1]

Hired assassins often remain under the radar as they are not a part of the organised crime group.''

Interesting!! I had thought otherwise.

 

[WINDSOR]

Regarding the theory that the Sherman's were mistaken victims, and the neighbours were the actual target.

I believe the TPS had implied that the Sherman's were under surveillance for sometime prior to their deaths. It then follows if they were being watched, then the Sherman's were the target.

 

[fadedglitter]

TPS never implied they were under surveillance. Very early on, Yim received a judicial authorization to investigate this possibility, and years later told Donovan that the investigation had gone in another direction.

EDITED TO ADD: here’s the relevant Star coverage:
“We’ve exhausted all the avenues (of the cellular data),” said Toronto police Det.-Const. Dennis Yim during a recent court appearance. “We’ve done comparisons and analysis and those comparisons and analyses have not borne any fruit.”
Yim provided this information during questioning by a Toronto Star reporter in the Star’s ongoing attempts to gain access to sealed search warrant and production orders detailing the murder investigation. The Ontario Court of Justice hearing was presided over by Justice Leslie Pringle.
None of the 300 numbers turned up in the tower dumps at the relevant times, and none shed any light on the identity of the walking man, or provided evidence of the police theory that Barry and Honey were under surveillance.
(…)
Newly released documents reveal that within a few months of the murders, homicide detectives developed the belief that the “walking man” with an odd gait captured on several home security camera systems in the neighbourhood was the killer. Detectives hoped they would find an electronic trace of the walking man, perhaps in cellular communication with someone else, though police had no visual evidence the walking man was using a cellphone.
But Yim told court that police failed to come up with any relevant information when they compared the “tower dumps” to those 300 cellphone numbers. Nor did they have success in comparing it with some other information they had gathered from a production order served somewhere outside Canada. Police will not say which country was involved or what the information was. Yim said there is still a second out-of-country production order served a year ago and they still await the results.
Now, Yim told court during cross-examination, police are focusing their efforts elsewhere.
“The investigation has gone on to a different phase,” said Yim, but he did not describe what he meant.


Back to me: the unsealed theories are the ones that have been discarded and would no longer hurt the investigation. We know about the surveillance theory because it turned out to be unsupported. We know about the theory that KW murdered the Shermans because it turned out to be unsupported. We know about the murder suicide theory because it turned out to be unsupported.

The police have maintained the seal on things they are actively investigating.

 

[ldlager]

Barry Sherman's cousin says he knows why his murder remains unsolved

The murder of billionaire Barry Sherman and his wife Honey remains unsolved nearly eight years later. His cousin tells DailyMail.com why the immense resources the police used won't cut it.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[ldlager]

I know this is an unusual and strange question. But is it possible that the NW was in fact BS? (His body wasn’t discovered until 2 days after the NW was filmed. ) A stretch I know, but we have nothing else to go on.

 

[fadedglitter]

I know this is an unusual and strange question. But is it possible that the NW was in fact BS? (His body wasn’t discovered until 2 days after the NW was filmed. ) A stretch I know, but we have nothing else to go on.

No. Barry is on camera driving away from Apotex, through the neighbourhood, and arriving home. The camera across the street captured both him and Honey returning to 50 OCR.

The night walker is on camera walking through the neighbourhood, going into an area without video coverage that covers the Sherman home and little else, staying in that area during the murders, and then walking away.

 

[MerlinFalcon]

I know this is an unusual and strange question. But is it possible that the NW was in fact BS? (His body wasn’t discovered until 2 days after the NW was filmed. ) A stretch I know, but we have nothing else to go on.

Anyone who knew him would have identified him if this were the case

 

[ldlager]

No. Barry is on camera driving away from Apotex, through the neighbourhood, and arriving home. The camera across the street captured both him and Honey returning to 50 OCR.

The night walker is on camera walking through the neighbourhood, going into an area without video coverage that covers the Sherman home and little else, staying in that area during the murders, and then walking away.

Why would all that preclude it from being BS? He could have gone outside and walked. Frankly, we don’t even know if BS was in the house when HS was killed. I don’t think it is BS, but I cannot 100% say it’s not.

 

[ldlager]

Anyone who knew him would have identified him if this were the case

No one has identified the NW either. But some people must know him/her also. Unless of course LE now know who he/she is and haven’t told the public yet.

 

[FromGermany1]

I know this is an unusual and strange question. But is it possible that the NW was in fact BS? (His body wasn’t discovered until 2 days after the NW was filmed. ) A stretch I know, but we have nothing else to go on.

I have never seen BS walking, so Idk, if it would be his stature and his gait.

 

[WINDSOR]

TPS never implied they were under surveillance. Very early on, Yim received a judicial authorization to investigate this possibility, and years later told Donovan that the investigation had gone in another direction.

EDITED TO ADD: here’s the relevant Star coverage:
“We’ve exhausted all the avenues (of the cellular data),” said Toronto police Det.-Const. Dennis Yim during a recent court appearance. “We’ve done comparisons and analysis and those comparisons and analyses have not borne any fruit.”
Yim provided this information during questioning by a Toronto Star reporter in the Star’s ongoing attempts to gain access to sealed search warrant and production orders detailing the murder investigation. The Ontario Court of Justice hearing was presided over by Justice Leslie Pringle.
None of the 300 numbers turned up in the tower dumps at the relevant times, and none shed any light on the identity of the walking man, or provided evidence of the police theory that Barry and Honey were under surveillance.
(…)
Newly released documents reveal that within a few months of the murders, homicide detectives developed the belief that the “walking man” with an odd gait captured on several home security camera systems in the neighbourhood was the killer. Detectives hoped they would find an electronic trace of the walking man, perhaps in cellular communication with someone else, though police had no visual evidence the walking man was using a cellphone.
But Yim told court that police failed to come up with any relevant information when they compared the “tower dumps” to those 300 cellphone numbers. Nor did they have success in comparing it with some other information they had gathered from a production order served somewhere outside Canada. Police will not say which country was involved or what the information was. Yim said there is still a second out-of-country production order served a year ago and they still await the results.
Now, Yim told court during cross-examination, police are focusing their efforts elsewhere.
“The investigation has gone on to a different phase,” said Yim, but he did not describe what he meant.


Back to me: the unsealed theories are the ones that have been discarded and would no longer hurt the investigation. We know about the surveillance theory because it turned out to be unsupported. We know about the theory that KW murdered the Shermans because it turned out to be unsupported. We know about the murder suicide theory because it turned out to be unsupported.

The police have maintained the seal on things they are actively investigating.

Good point fade, and not to split hairs, but I got may opinion from this Toronto Star quote,

"By mid-2018, detectives already had the tracking data emitted by Barry’s BlackBerry and Honey’s iPhone. Now, by December 2018, they were still seeking permission to obtain the tracking data from as many as 35 other cellphones. Due, it appears, to the new information, police wanted to “parallel the tracking data from Bernard’s or Honey’s cellular phone records,” police state. “If they do parallel this could indicate that Bernard and/or Honey were followed or were under surveillance,” police wrote in their application to the court."

It is my opinion, that the Sherman's were monitored by the killer(s). The TPS believed they could have been under surveillance as well, and that was why they requested tracking data.

Now the TPS investigation did not discover any evidence of the fact the Sherman's were being monitored.

This result means only, the Sherman's were not being watched,
or, the TPS looked in the wrong places or missed something (maybe the 35 cell phones the checked were not the correct ones) to confirm the Sherman's were monitored,
or, the killers who have proven to being very elusive to date, left no evidence of their monitoring of the Sherman's.

Generally cold cases are solved by a tip, or old evidence is reviewed with a new perspective, or new scientific techniques create new knowledge and understanding of the existing evidence.

If the Sherman's were not monitored to some extent by the killers prior to their deaths, it would then make one believe the murderer(s) acted impulsively, and knew the Sherman's. The fact that the Walking Man has not been identified by anybody who knew the Sherman's tends to contradict this theory.

MOO

 

[WINDSOR]

I know this is an unusual and strange question. But is it possible that the NW was in fact BS? (His body wasn’t discovered until 2 days after the NW was filmed. ) A stretch I know, but we have nothing else to go on.

Since Barry had to return to the Old Colony home to be found dead there, would it not follow that there would have been video of Barry returning to the house?

If no video exists of Barry returning, then it probably is safe to assume Barry is not the Night Walker.

 

[ldlager]

Since Barry had to return to the Old Colony home to be found dead there, would it not follow that there would have been video of Barry returning to the house?

If no video exists of Barry returning, then it probably is safe to assume Barry is not the Night Walker.

Yes I understand. But there is no video of the killer either, except for vague references about the NW being in the area of the Sherman’s house. If the killer could enter and leave without being on video then it follows that BS could have sone the same. Moo

 

[fadedglitter]

Since Barry had to return to the Old Colony home to be found dead there, would it not follow that there would have been video of Barry returning to the house?

If no video exists of Barry returning, then it probably is safe to assume Barry is not the Night Walker.

The police have video of Barry returning home on December 13:

Also still under seal are video stills captured by a home security camera across the road from the Shermans’ house, which Yim has confirmed show Barry and Honey arriving home at night in their respective vehicles.

 

[fadedglitter]

Yes I understand. But there is no video of the killer either, except for vague references about the NW being in the area of the Sherman’s house. If the killer could enter and leave without being on video then it follows that BS could have sone the same. Moo

What would it take to make you believe that the police have the videos Donovan describes below?

Police found it suspicious that this person, caught on multiple video cameras, was walking in the neighbourhood between 9 p.m. and midnight, the time when police say the Shermans were killed. The person, the videos show, moves from east to west, walking at least two kilometres, until the person comes to a point “tight” to the Sherman home. The person, as police have revealed, spends a “suspicious” amount of time in an area near the Sherman home that is notcovered by any of the neighbourhood home security cameras. Then the person leaves the same way the person arrived, heading east. The lone video police revealed to the public shows the person walking 1.3 kilometres east of the Sherman home, possibly heading to Leslie Street. The Sherman home is in a neighbourhood bounded by Bayview Avenue on the west and Leslie on the east.

 

[FromGermany1]

What would it take to make you believe that the police have the videos Donovan describes below?

Police found it suspicious that this person, caught on multiple video cameras, was walking in the neighbourhood between 9 p.m. and midnight, the time when police say the Shermans were killed. The person, the videos show, moves from east to west, walking at least two kilometres, until the person comes to a point “tight” to the Sherman home. The person, as police have revealed, spends a “suspicious” amount of time in an area near the Sherman home that is notcovered by any of the neighbourhood home security cameras. Then the person leaves the same way the person arrived, heading east. The lone video police revealed to the public shows the person walking 1.3 kilometres east of the Sherman home, possibly heading to Leslie Street. The Sherman home is in a neighbourhood bounded by Bayview Avenue on the west and Leslie on the east.

My main idea is still the same: BS took H's life and knew, he immediately had to take his own life now also. Over many years he had seen it coming, that one day he would lose his control - and he made sure in advance (agreement of a call/mail/code), that a certain confidant would help to cover up the whole situation. A confidant, who cared about the reputation of the Shermans and their companies with all his heart like Barry did himself. The NW was the confidant, who was assumed to be far away from Toronto at that time. The NW walked to avoid his car to be seen on any surveillance camera in the neighborhood of Old Colony or elsewhere, because his taped car would have destroyed his by chance well-founded alibi. His alibi, which isn't 100% true (only half of it), but exists until today, so it seems. - Attention please: it's my speculation only!