CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #24

[ldlager]

A couple of things come to mind,

It was a very cold dark windy snowy night on that Wed. Most were not outside or out front of the homes. It was bitter weather if outside most wanted to get inside hoods up face covered and fast, not looking around.

These homes are gigantic, maybe lights off in the front area are normal when only two people live in the home.

The Sherman home was concrete and not built with any view into the home from the street.

The Sherman’s travel, no movement at this time of year could be normal.

I am curious why anyone would think LE are the least intelligent people who would not look at the Wed video if they ask for 7 days of video, they know they were murdered on the Wed and have video of that day. Just because they do not share information we assume they are less intelligent and did not do things we would expect? We are all human and mistakes / overlooking or misunderstanding do happen but I have way more confidence that they are looking at everything.

Also IMO newspaper articles are written to excite us, wording is changed to give interest, I think it becomes story telling and not a recap of the actual facts.

More IMO, how much does KD actually know, did he just learn of the 2 cars next door years later. Or held onto that info and shared when nothing else to talk about.

If the Greenspan team knew about the cars early evening visit next door and nothing has come of it, I doubt they are part of this case. Of course unless they know the culprit and are holding onto it for a defence if ever an arrest is made.

I don’t share your view of the performance of LE in this case. There have been so many LE shortcomings, errors, and omissions in this case that have been publicized that one has a basis to question their performance in this case. I personally know one very senior executive of Apotex who dealt personally with BS every day for a decade. Including in the several days immediately preceding the murders. My friend has told me that he has never been approached by police for an interview. Not once. I wonder how many more people haven’t been interviewed either?
In addition, I am sure that there are other omissions that have not been made public. Of course police are human. But this case has seemingly included such glaring systematic errors that it isn’t surprising that the case hasn’t been solved and charges laid.

 

[WINDSOR]

All this speculation about the TPS and their level of competence is to a certain extent, brought on by themselves. The TPS's inability to communicate openly with the public about the Sherman case, creates a vacuum where rumor's, conspiracies and speculation come to live.

Of course no matter how open the TPS are about the case, there will always be people second-guessing. Be that as it may, in my opinion the TPS should clear the air to a certain extent.

If they could address issues that they have resolved, it would give the public some peace.
For example.

• The two SUV's at 46 Old Colony... no involvement.
• The Night Walker..... still investigating.
• Foreign individuals.....still investigating.
• The Sherman's staff........no involvement.
• $25,000,000 reward....still available.
• We continue to ask the public's help.

All other issues continue to be a part of an active police investigation and cannot be disclosed.

Would it be so difficult to do something like this?

 

[al66pine]

@WINDSOR

IIRC $25,000,000 reward offer was made by S. fam member(s) or atty for them.
Still valid? IDK.
How recently has this offer been repeated by the person(s) originally offering it?
Would TPS be in a position to confirm the offer still stands? IDK.

(Not commenting about TPS silence on other issues. )

 

[FromGermany1]

AI Overview

The total reward offered for information leading to the arrest and conviction of those responsible for the murders of Barry and Honey Sherman is $35 million. Initially, the Sherman family offered a $10 million reward. Their son, Jonathon Sherman, later added an additional $25 million, bringing the total to $35 million.
-.-.-
Because I remembered a higher reward ($ 35 mil) than mentioned ($25 mil), I googled for it.

 

[al66pine]

How Could/Can LE Verify to Public That Reward $ Offer is Still Current?

AI Overview

The total reward offered for information leading to the arrest and conviction of those responsible for the murders of Barry and Honey Sherman is $35 million. Initially, the Sherman family offered a $10 million reward. Their son, Jonathon Sherman, later added an additional $25 million, bringing the total to $35 million.
-.-.-
Because I remembered a higher reward ($ 35 mil) than mentioned ($25 mil), I googled for it.

@FromGermany1
Thx for AI info about reward $ offered. Good info about the $ amts and who made offers. And good memory.
The four actual sources (which I saw, w 3 linked below*) AI used were all from stories dated in 2022 so may or may not currently be accurate in 2025.

@FromGermany1 @[B]WINDSOR[/B]​

Rephrasing what I asked in my post:
How could/can LE verify to public now that $10, 25, or 35 mil. reward offer(s) are still valid?
LE could try to contact fam, but fam could refuse to communicate w LE. I don't recall how recently any fam members have communicated directly w LE.
Anyone know?

AFAIK, only the fam members who made the offers could verify current validity but ICBWrong.

______________________________________________
*Dec. 17, 2022
"Investigators have worked to connect the dots. But five years later, no arrests have been made. On this week's anniversary of the killings, the Shermans' son offered an additional $25 million for information leading to an arrest. The reward is now $35 million."

Dec. 2022.

Canadian family offers $35 million for answers in cold case

A billionaire couple was found dead five years ago this week. Their family is now offering a $35 million reward for information leading to an arrest.

www.cbsnews.com

Dec. 2022

Barry and Honey Sherman murder: Son triples cash reward to $35m to find killer

Barry Sherman and his wife Honey Sherman were strangled to death in their Toronto home five years ago. Their murder mystery remains unsolved even as their son Jonathon has topped up cash reward.

economictimes.indiatimes.com

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I don’t share your view of the performance of LE in this case. There have been so many LE shortcomings, errors, and omissions in this case that have been publicized that one has a basis to question their performance in this case. I personally know one very senior executive of Apotex who dealt personally with BS every day for a decade. Including in the several days immediately preceding the murders. My friend has told me that he has never been approached by police for an interview. Not once. I wonder how many more people haven’t been interviewed either?
In addition, I am sure that there are other omissions that have not been made public. Of course police are human. But this case has seemingly included such glaring systematic errors that it isn’t surprising that the case hasn’t been solved and charges laid.

I want to believe in Detective Yim, but every time I notice a new typo in the ITOs, I’m baffled. The latest one I noticed was ‘Spetember’, in a section where he had correctly spelled September a few times.

I don’t know if this is another error or that this group of telephone numbers were all activated on November 15th, 2017, exactly one month before the bodies were found:

ITO #8, Appendix C
The ITO was for tracking and call information for 35 numbers connected to the case.

We don’t know why Detective Yim zeroed in on specific dates within the document, but the time period of January 24th to February 4th, 2018 was key because a few important things happened: KW filmed an interview with the Fifth Estate, the police announced that the case was a double-homicide, KW was interviewed by TPS homicide for hours, a few days later, the Fifth Estate program aired, etc.

 

[MerlinFalcon]

I want to believe in Detective Yim, but every time I notice a new typo in the ITOs, I’m baffled. The latest one I noticed was ‘Spetember’, in a section where he had correctly spelled September a few times.

I don’t know if this is another error or that this group of telephone numbers were all activated on November 15th, 2017, exactly one month before the bodies were found:

View attachment 602362
ITO #8, Appendix C
The ITO was for tracking and call information for 35 numbers connected to the case.

We don’t know why Detective Yim zeroed in on specific dates within the document, but the time period of January 24th to February 4th, 2018 was key because a few important things happened: KW filmed an interview with the Fifth Estate, the police announced that the case was a double-homicide, KW was interviewed by TPS homicide for hours, a few days later, the Fifth Estate program aired, etc.

The district attorney in the Karen Read case misspelled his own name on documents. I’m surprised they don’t correct them or maybe they can’t.

 

[ldlager]

The district attorney in the Karen Read case misspelled his own name on documents. I’m surprised they don’t correct them or maybe they can’t.

To me, the misspellings could be a reflection of sloppiness by LE in reviewing these documents, and I can’t help but wonder if this sloppiness is in turnreflection of the quality and thoroughness of their investigation. I am sorry to say this and to make this potential analogy, but I think it’s a natural reaction.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

I don’t know if you followed the Karen Read case in Massachusetts. The footage from a camera at the library in town would have shown her car drive past at a certain time. The person in charge of the video was asked for it by the cops and he sent it to them. The library tape overwrites after 30 days. Unfortunately critical information was deleted after it was in the possession of police and by the time the defence found out, the tape was overwritten because 30 days had passed. I don’t think this is unusual with cameras.

Wow . I did not follow it. Sad. That is evidence tampering.

For me, this gets into a different conversation, altered video, not did they collect it and watch it.

Possibly defence does not have the money to work on the overwritten video and get copy of original, but it seems they could prove it was altered so they had some intel?

In todays world most video footage is stored in a cloud host, not on a tape drive that must be pulled and replaced, one that would automatically start taping over the first of the video.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

I don’t share your view of the performance of LE in this case. There have been so many LE shortcomings, errors, and omissions in this case that have been publicized that one has a basis to question their performance in this case. I personally know one very senior executive of Apotex who dealt personally with BS every day for a decade. Including in the several days immediately preceding the murders. My friend has told me that he has never been approached by police for an interview. Not once. I wonder how many more people haven’t been interviewed either?
In addition, I am sure that there are other omissions that have not been made public. Of course police are human. But this case has seemingly included such glaring systematic errors that it isn’t surprising that the case hasn’t been solved and charges laid.

I appreciate your view and can understand it.

For me it becomes tiresome with the LE bashing when we have no confirmed factual information just news articles and post boards .

Canadian police are to protect citizens, that means your privacy is the first thing to protect. So they share as little information as possible. That will not change. You are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law in our Country . Prosecutors and defence lawyers will hold, coddle whatever evidence they can to win a case. Prosecutors are the ones who make the decisions on what details LE can release to the public or even do - as in charge anyone.

Maybe they are playing a role like Colombo, hope you think he is less intelligent so you make an error.

It is just when we infer they must be stupid or less intelligent than we are because they overlook things - especially when we do not know the true facts as LE do, we come off looking like we feel we are inferior to them.

Toronto LE average an annual 80% clearance rate, very good for a large city.

If Toronto LE are good or bad at investigation, it should be a separate enquiry all together IMO at this point it is a defence lawyers dream, all this media and posts about poor investigations should have all the defendants getting acquitted.

Was this part of an initial plan by the Greenspan team, distract and blame right off the start.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

The district attorney in the Karen Read case misspelled his own name on documents. I’m surprised they don’t correct them or maybe they can’t.

I think they use dictation, data entry to copy other individuals notes entered into one case file.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

To me, the misspellings could be a reflection of sloppiness by LE in reviewing these documents, and I can’t help but wonder if this sloppiness is in turnreflection of the quality and thoroughness of their investigation. I am sorry to say this and to make this potential analogy, but I think it’s a natural reaction.

Maybe I am just sticking up for the underdog at this point, but I am far from perfect, have made huge errors in judgement in my lifetime, thank the lord I did not have millions of people involved and hashing out those times, making personal judgements about me as a person, based on their own upbringing and thoughts, not about the individual being stripped naked in the public eye for everyone to rip apart. It becomes bullishness to me.

I also struggle with autocorrect changing my words, sometimes I don’t notice sometimes I do.

Today people write less and use so many short forms, the English language is rarely used to write anymore, I think that is overflowing here, when LE take notes it could be bullet form or summed up, copy and paste it into the other case file as is, do not change the wording and it may look like one person made all these errors, spelling something correctly and then incorrectly.

 

[ldlager]

Maybe I am just sticking up for the underdog at this point, but I am far from perfect, have made huge errors in judgement in my lifetime, thank the lord I did not have millions of people involved and hashing out those times, making personal judgements about me as a person, based on their own upbringing and thoughts, not about the individual being stripped naked in the public eye for everyone to rip apart. It becomes bullishness to me.

I also struggle with autocorrect changing my words, sometimes I don’t notice sometimes I do.

Today people write less and use so many short forms, the English language is rarely used to write anymore, I think that is overflowing here, when LE take notes it could be bullet form or summed up, copy and paste it into the other case file as is, do not change the wording and it may look like one person made all these errors, spelling something correctly and then incorrectly.

I understand your viewpoint. I too make many mistakes in everyday life. But I generally read all important documents that I am being asked to sign, and correct errors in those documents as best I can.
In situations where I have been required to swear an Affidavit, Iread it and I make darn sure it is as accurate and as error free as I can make it before I swear to it. I am left to wonder if the Detective even reviews the written Affidavits before he swears to them?
But maybe I am just “old school”….…
I guess if I had to choose I would prefer detectives spend their time finding the Sherman’s’ killers, instead of reviewing Affidavits. I hope they are at least doing that!

 

[fadedglitter]

IMO at this point it is a defence lawyers dream, all this media and posts about poor investigations should have all the defendants getting acquitted.

Was this part of an initial plan by the Greenspan team, distract and blame right off the start.

I doubt it was the plan, but it’s certainly true that the main beneficiary of Greenspan’s work is the person who is eventually charged. This is going to be a circumstantial case anyway; Greenspan and Donovan collectively have provided the eventual defence team with everything they need to produce reasonable doubt in the minds of a Toronto jury.

People who continually make public statements about police incompetence don’t intend to help defendants get acquitted but could take some pointers from Alex K’s consistent statements about confidence in TPS. She may have private concerns but she doesn’t want to give the murderer’s lawyer a ready-made argument that the police made many mistakes and charged the wrong person. The Crown only gets one shot at this.

 

[WINDSOR]

In trying to look at the Sherman case from the eyes of the TPS, I can see the parameters they are dealing with.

Budget: This is a very complex and involved case, which means a high costs. The TPS is faced with the same budget constraints as all government agencies, and must be prudent and careful with expenditures. I would not be surprised if the TPS has allocated over a million dollars on this case already.

Risk to Public: Since this was a targeted killing, for a specific purpose, the risk to the public has always been very low.

Lack of direct evidence: Since there is no smoking gun, or actual witnesses this will be a difficult to prosecute. As several have stated here, the defense team in any court case has lots of reasons for a jury acquittal.

Time is on our side: The TPS wants to identify, charge and convict the offenders. There is no rush to charge, if there is a potential of more evidentiary proof that will assist in a conviction, possibly forthcoming.

No doubt the TPS has made some errors in this investigation but knowing the challenges they faced some are understandable. In my opinion I do believe the TPS has a pretty good idea who did it, but lack sufficient evidence to win in court.

It is my opinion that the TPS should be more forthcoming in involving the public through media presentations. I am fully aware of LE in Canada being very close-mouthed during investigations, but as has been proven in other jurisdictions, we know more openness can be beneficial to all parties involved.

MOO

 

[Cedars]

It is my opinion that the TPS should be more forthcoming in involving the public through media presentations. I am fully aware of LE in Canada being very close-mouthed during investigations, but as has been proven in other jurisdictions, we know more openness can be beneficial to all parties involved.

MOO

The FBI are similar to Cdn police - they reveal nothing, unless, for example, they have suspects on wiretap and decide to deliberately release something to try to rattle them and get them talking.

It really depends on the kind of investigation, whether LE need to appeal to the public. IMO, these murders would not have involved the general public in any way.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

I understand your viewpoint. I too make many mistakes in everyday life. But I generally read all important documents that I am being asked to sign, and correct errors in those documents as best I can.
In situations where I have been required to swear an Affidavit, Iread it and I make darn sure it is as accurate and as error free as I can make it before I swear to it. I am left to wonder if the Detective even reviews the written Affidavits before he swears to them?
But maybe I am just “old school”….…
I guess if I had to choose I would prefer detectives spend their time finding the Sherman’s’ killers, instead of reviewing Affidavits. I hope they are at least doing that!

Agreed.

As this is not one persons account, accurate and error free may not be possible. Example: Yim cannot correct spelling or incorrect name used, errors, of some one else’s notes, that could be considered evidence interference or altering.

I think the notes are used to convince the judge they have evidence in the area of xyz, to give proof to the request to dig deeper for more information, ** specific information. Approve the warrant is the goal.

 

[ldlager]

I doubt it was the plan, but it’s certainly true that the main beneficiary of Greenspan’s work is the person who is eventually charged. This is going to be a circumstantial case anyway; Greenspan and Donovan collectively have provided the eventual defence team with everything they need to produce reasonable doubt in the minds of a Toronto jury.

People who continually make public statements about police incompetence don’t intend to help defendants get acquitted but could take some pointers from Alex K’s consistent statements about confidence in TPS. She may have private concerns but she doesn’t want to give the murderer’s lawyer a ready-made argument that the police made many mistakes and charged the wrong person. The Crown only gets one shot at this.

You mean the same Alex K that hired the Greenspan team who in turn ripped the TPS for a series of alleged investigation errors and omissions? Perhaps she didn’t say it herself publicly, but she instead hired Greenspan to make public many of her issues with the police investigation.

 

[Charlot123]

To me, the misspellings could be a reflection of sloppiness by LE in reviewing these documents, and I can’t help but wonder if this sloppiness is in turnreflection of the quality and thoroughness of their investigation. I am sorry to say this and to make this potential analogy, but I think it’s a natural reaction.

It might be a sign of doing several things at the same time. Some people function like this. They are talking on the phone and typing at the same time, or multitasking in any other way. It doesn’t mean they don’t remember the information. It just means, they are wired this way.

In case of a LEO, my first thought would be, how high is his caseload?

 

[Cedars]

I don’t share your view of the performance of LE in this case.

No, really? I'm shocked, I would never had guessed. (Irony).